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A man exercises his right to free speech in UK park, Jews drink Christian blood. Watch

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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    A religion which exists today and which people use as a platform to justify violence. Now have you actually got anything constrictive to add?
    A religion which consists of the vast majority as peaceful people who will never commit any violent actions, and a tiny fraction who commit violence in its name - who themselves contradict other sections of the Quran. You're criticising a religion because of the violent minority who follow it on a different wavelength to the majority of its followers, you should separate the active extremists from the rest of the community.
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    (Original post by Oliver_94)
    Islam does not have the blood on its hands of the likes of Christianity and Hinduism during their colonial eras?
    You are honestly such a sad troll. I can't even get over it :laugh:
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    A religion which consists of the vast majority as peaceful people who will never commit any violent actions, and a tiny fraction who commit violence in its name - who themselves contradict other sections of the Quran. You're criticising a religion because of the violent minority who follow it on a different wavelength to the majority of its followers, you should separate the active extremists from the rest of the community.
    You seem to be having a hard time differentiating between criticising the scriptures of a religion and criticisms of the people who follow it. I do sometimes find fault with people who follow the religion because they buy into the BS, however it's safe to say my main gripe is with the religion itself. Namely, the written words.
    You seem to be under the impression that a religion should not be criticised if the majority are peaceful. Well whether the majority are peaceful or not is a matter of opinion, but that still shouldn't stop valid criticism of the religion and it's teachings. Especially when the teachings are outdated and when many of them do involve segregation, violence and hostility.

    I don't give a **** about this absurd victim complex you seem to be having on behalf of this religion. It's nonsense. Furthermore, it seems to be your tactic rather than facing up to any genuine criticism myself or anyone else seems to have.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    You seem to be having a hard time differentiating between criticising the scriptures of a religion and criticisms of the people who follow it. I do sometimes find fault with people who follow the religion because they buy into the BS, however it's safe to say my main gripe is with the religion itself. Namely, the written words.
    You seem to be under the impression that a religion should not be criticised if the majority are peaceful. Well whether the majority are peaceful or not is a matter of opinion, but that still shouldn't stop valid criticism of the religion and it's teachings. Especially when the teachings are outdated and when many of them do involve segregation, violence and hostility.

    I don't give a **** about this absurd victim complex you seem to be having on behalf of this religion. It's nonsense. Furthermore, it seems to be your tactic rather than facing up to any genuine criticism myself or anyone else seems to have.
    I have no problem discriminating between the religion and its followers. You're hating on Islam, which is 1.5 millennia old. So there must be some kind of modern, 21st-century factor which is causing you to criticise such an old religion. That factor is terrorists and extremists. They claim to be the true supporters of Islam, and you're letting them brainwash you into criticising the religion - ISIS do not represent it, they might have 'Islamic' in their name, but any skim-read of the Quran would show you that they violate many of its teachings. They represent a warped version of Islam, to which 1.5 billion people do NOT subscribe to, but you attack all of Islam as if its the same thing. There are different interpretations even within Islam itself, and you criticise it as if its one singular thing - there are different interpretations, so attack the people promoting the violent, extremist interpretations and not the people who acknowledge the violence but ignore it for the sake of democracy and peace.

    And the simple fact that the teachings are outdated mean that you should be careful criticising Islam. If you look back at what the world was like in the Middle East 1500 years ago, some of its things make more sense. Islam was a core ideology to the governments which existed back then, so fighting against apostates was fighting for society and everything you knew to be true. The Middle East has always been a desert, poor development, lack of connection with the rest of the world and prominent extremists have caused extreme measures by the religion of Islam and therefore by the government to tackle those who oppose Islam and therefore implicitly oppose the governments of the Middle East around 600 AD.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like religion. I think the world would be a better place tomorrow if all religions disappeared - but since that's not going to happen anytime soon, hating on a religion with so many followers is a waste of time. You're attacking Islam and therefore also annoying / aggravating its peaceful followers, when the extremists are the ones who need to be attacked. You can hate Islam all you want but it is never going to motivate Muslims to denounce extremists, because their anti-western rhetoric is fuelled by hatred for Islam, among other things.
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    The guy who was ranting got played so hard that it's not even funny. He was basically playing the role of a restricted animal jumping about for other people's amusement.
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    (Original post by cosmicstarbeast)
    The guy who was ranting got played so hard that it's not even funny. He was basically playing the role of a restricted animal jumping about for other people's amusement.
    Exactly! Very well put! And it does not reflect well on the baiters.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    QFA
    I'll answer one specific paragraph which really stood out to me. The part at the end where you say:

    "You're attacking Islam and therefore also annoying / aggravating its peaceful followers, when the extremists are the ones who need to be attacked. You can hate Islam all you want but it is never going to motivate Muslims to denounce extremists, because their anti-western rhetoric is fuelled by hatred for Islam, among other things."
    There is a lot wrong with this paragraph.

    Firstly, the fact that it may not change any time soon does not mean it shouldn't be criticised. Quite the opposite in fact. The fact that it isn't changing is precisely why it ought to be called out. Furthermore, if the text in the holy book hasn't changed in over 1.500 years, then it definitely ought to be called out. Any scriptures that is used as a justification or teaching, any scriptures that is used as a law, which is abided by, and which could be construed as outdated, deserves critique.

    Secondly, if criticism of it annoys and aggravates them, then that's just too bad. If criticism of their religion causes them anger, then I think that's very telling about them and their beliefs. If criticism of it causes anger or aggravation of their moderate members, imagine how their less moderate followers react. I think you'll find they look for any excuse to justify their actions.
    This is why I call you an an apologist. Because things like religions deserve criticism. And if/when a response to criticism is anger or aggravation, you blame the critics rather than those who defend said beliefs, then that is telling. You are trying to shame the critic, and silence the through shame, which is essentially also a form of appeasement.

    You may not like criticism of their religion, but it is irrelevant whether the followers like it or not be they moderate or not. That should not make any difference whatsoever. Free speech is the right to say what you want without being stopped or limited, that applies to criticising religion too. Any religion.

    If you are worried that criticism of Islam might make them angry or aggravated, then that says everything about them, because they would rather people don't criticise their religion whatsoever. They would prefer people stayed silent, and that simply won't do. That isn't how it works, that isn't how it ought to work.

    If moderate Muslims want to denounce radical Islam, then it should be for a whole host of reasons. But if they are held back or reserved from doing so because someone dares to criticise their religion, they are idiots. Because they are letting their pathetic insecurities and attachments towards their religion get in the way of fighting radical Islam through which many people die every day or almost every day.
    Criticism of the religion of Islam is valid, and if someone won't attack the radicals in their own religion because of a few criticisms, then they are pathetic idiots and they don't deserve a second thought. There are zero excuses for an attitude of that nature.
    To think that such a belief is fair is entirely naive and counter productive, because you are blaming, shaming, and scapegoating the people who have legitimate issues with a religion, and blaming them for a religion which isn't progressing, rather than the religion itself and it's followers.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    QFA
    A reply to the rest of what you said.

    I have no problem discriminating between the religion and its followers.
    Yet you seem to have a problem separating the two.

    You're hating on Islam, which is 1.5 millennia old. So there must be some kind of modern, 21st-century factor which is causing you to criticise such an old religion.
    I think you just answered your own point. It's a 1.5 millennia old religion in a 21st century world. It is largely quite a conservative religion too, so modernisation of said religion is very slow.

    That factor is terrorists and extremists. They claim to be the true supporters of Islam, and you're letting them brainwash you into criticising the religion - ISIS do not represent it, they might have 'Islamic' in their name, but any skim-read of the Quran would show you that they violate many of its teachings. They represent a warped version of Islam, to which 1.5 billion people do NOT subscribe to, but you attack all of Islam as if its the same thing. There are different interpretations even within Islam itself, and you criticise it as if its one singular thing - there are different interpretations, so attack the people promoting the violent, extremist interpretations and not the people who acknowledge the violence but ignore it for the sake of democracy and peace.
    I don't just criticise Islam because of the actions by ISIS, Boko Haram, and all the rest. I also criticise it because of many of it's scriptures. In the other thread you quoted quite a few nice quotes in it. I told you, and then showed you quotes which were quite the opposite after telling you that such quotes are meaningless because these religious books contradict themselves, but you failed to accept it.
    Nevertheless, these books which gives all sorts of medieval commands about women, non-believers, their enemies, homosexuals etc are still being spoken about, taught and acted upon by modern Muslims.
    You can cry out "ISIS don't represent Islam" until you're blue in the face but where on earth do you think they got all these ideas from? They didn't get them from the Jungle book.

    And by the way, the extremists who "don't represent Islam", and the clerics who sit in their mosques here and preach in UK mosques, are two ends of the same stick.

    You call it a "warped version of Islam", but to them it's just....Islam.

    And the simple fact that the teachings are outdated mean that you should be careful criticising Islam. If you look back at what the world was like in the Middle East 1500 years ago, some of its things make more sense. Islam was a core ideology to the governments which existed back then, so fighting against apostates was fighting for society and everything you knew to be true. The Middle East has always been a desert, poor development, lack of connection with the rest of the world and prominent extremists have caused extreme measures by the religion of Islam and therefore by the government to tackle those who oppose Islam and therefore implicitly oppose the governments of the Middle East around 600 AD.
    I should be careful criticising Islam? Nope. I know what the Middle East was like back then, I don't give a :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin: if it made sense back then, that's irrelevant. I know it's poor there, and I know poverty is a breeding ground for extremism, however there is money in the Middle East because of oil and other trade. If those with power and money were less corrupt, the money would have a better chance of trickling down and helping people. But fat chance there.
    Believe me, once the oil runs out in places like Saudi Arabia, :dolphin::dolphin::dolphin::dolphin: is going to go south PDQ, at which point all the Westerners should GTFO and just watch what happens on CNN. We have no place there.
 
 
 
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