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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Like my thread said before. I'm a Sikh guy and I'm going to ask a Muslim girl.

    Just wondering if any other Sikhs would be open to do the same. Just wondering.
    depends man, if she is modern and not the archaic type of muslim, then creed should not matter lol
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    I am not Muslim. So my answer is no.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Like my thread said before. I'm a Sikh guy and I'm going to ask a Muslim girl.

    Just wondering if any other Sikhs would be open to do the same. Just wondering.
    In your previous thread you mentioned you have not told her your feelings, have you told her now?

    If not you are getting a bit carried away with talking about marriage when I read the thread title a few days ago thought **** no and knew others would feel the same.
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Would any other idolator too not argue that they are not worshipping the stone rather only God? Would they not say that they are not necessarily worshipping the physical of the stone rather than what it represents which is one and the same as God? It makes little difference that the word of God (beyond the physical) is considered one with God, because similarly many idolators do not believe the physical stone to be God but the thing it represents is considered one with God too, thus when one bows to the Granth, the Shabad (and thus God beyond the physical), they are doing what idol worshippers do when they bow before stone (and thus God beyond the physical), and it doesn't matter that the stone does not teach anything of words, although you could argue that bowing to the idle, like the Granth, teaches one to submit to God.

    Again, the difference between bowing before the Ka'aba is that in doing so, one is only using it as a direction for prayer, and only kissing it because of love for Islam and this being the 1st temple built for worshipping Allah alone, and not because they believe the Ka'aba itself is one with God.
    The paper is not worshipped, the words are worshipped. Those divine words which have come from God is what we hold sacred. There is an obvious difference, and if you cannot see it, you are blinded by your love for Islam.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    With this in mind, for anyone who sins (be it you, myself or anyone), Allah will forgive us *IF* we make taubah and sincerely ask for forgiveness.
    Rightly said
    • #7
    #7

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    The paper is not worshipped, the words are worshipped. Those divine words which have come from God is what we hold sacred. There is an obvious difference, and if you cannot see it, you are blinded by your love for Islam.
    I (Anonymous 7) have demonstrated in further posts how the treatment of the Granth could be counted as idolatry - in summary, some idol worshipers would argue the idol is not worshipped rather the spiritual manifestation of God it reprisents beyond its physical form, which is what I have likened the Sikh treatment of the Granth to - a worship of the spiritual manifestation of God through the Shabad beyond the physical form of the Granth.
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I (Anonymous 7) have demonstrated in further posts how the treatment of the Granth could be counted as idolatry - in summary, some idol worshipers would argue the idol is not worshipped rather the spiritual manifestation of God it reprisents beyond its physical form, which is what I have likened the Sikh treatment of the Granth to - a worship of the spiritual manifestation of God through the Shabad beyond the physical form of the Granth.
    Its beyond all physical things, and SGGS does not represent any manifestation either. SGGS contains the divine words, the shabadh. The shabadh is what it worshiped, as it is the complete truth.
    • #7
    #7

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Its beyond all physical things, and SGGS does not represent any manifestation either. SGGS contains the divine words, the shabadh. The shabadh is what it worshiped, as it is the complete truth.
    Another user has argued that the word of God is one and the same as God, therefore it would most definitely be a spiritual manifestation of God representented by a physical object; again the physical Granth is not worshipped rather than the Shabad it contains, which is the whole point I've been arguing, but the treatment of the Granth is idolatry as I've explained several times - think of an idol but replace the image it is meant to represent with the Shabad and thus you have your new idol, and as one worships what is behind the idle and not the idle itself, then this same principle applies. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Idolators believe their idol represents a spiritual form of God (beyond the physical appearance) and similarly Sikhs believe (according to A Level Student) that the word of God is the same as God, therefore the Granth (as the 'word of God' represents a spiritual form of God (beyond the physicality of the Granth). Muslims conversely do not believe that the Ka'aba is a spiritual form of Allah.
    They do...? I'm not sure, that's not what I read. Maybe you're right - I need to research this more then...

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Sorry I am Zamestaneh but for some reason the anonymous box keeps ticking itself... unticked it now finally.

    Oh right. sorry hehe...
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Another user has argued that the word of God is one and the same as God, therefore it would most definitely be a spiritual manifestation of God representented by a physical object; again the physical Granth is not worshipped rather than the Shabad it contains, which is the whole point I've been arguing, but the treatment of the Granth is idolatry as I've explained several times - think of an idol but replace the image it is meant to represent with the Shabad and thus you have your new idol, and as one worships what is behind the idle and not the idle itself, then this same principle applies. I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this.
    SGGS is respected, and treated the way it is, as it is our king. We treat it as living, and therefore the same way a servant would treat their king. Its something completely different to an idol, Im not sure what is hard to understand about this.
    • #7
    #7

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    SGGS is respected, and treated the way it is, as it is our king. We treat it as living, and therefore the same way a servant would treat their king. Its something completely different to an idol, Im not sure what is hard to understand about this.
    The fact that the word of God is treated one and the same as God would mean that it's physical manifestation is used the same as how an idolater worships the spiritual manifestation of an idol. I'm not sure how many more tines I can go in circles before I get dizzy. I get what you are saying but you don't seem to understand me or their is bias because you don't wish to admit it's idolatry.
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    The fact that the word of God is treated one and the same as God would mean that it's physical manifestation is used the same as how an idolater worships the spiritual manifestation of an idol. I'm not sure how many more tines I can go in circles before I get dizzy. I get what you are saying but you don't seem to understand me or their is bias because you don't wish to admit it's idolatry.
    Personally it seems to me that as you believe islam is right, everything else must be wrong. Take a moment to think about this, sikhi is against idol worship, from the very beginnings. Many hundreds of years have gone by, and this has always been the case. SGGS has been our guru for just over 300 years, within it itself it talks of how idol worship should not be practised. The gurus themselves write it. So then why, according to your views, would Guru Gobind singh then subject to this idol worship? The obvious answer is he didn't, and that SGGS is far more than just an idol, infact it is considered extremely stupid that one would even make a comparison. The facts stand, you may think it is an idol, but that just reflects your understanding of the religion. I will not be replying to further posts as you said yourself, we seem to be going round in circles
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by smile43)
    Cultural by language, tradition etc. Society i mean would wider society look down upon you , wider family and friends that would be a biggie for me. I agree with your history part tho

    There are sikh girls that are modest too lol not all of us are the 'asian chavs' you see lol.
    How long have you know her etc.
    Yh i guess you would think theyd accept but tbh being a girl i dont think they would especially with the fear of muslim groomers etc which i know most muslims arent and dont support. Ill say this publically although i dont think i would secretly ive been in a simmilar postion as you. Except we liked each other and not marriage im too young lol. Except with him hes not majorly at all religious and told.me hes facinated by sikhs and even his dad prefers sikhs and indians

    Tbh op , are you definetley sure about this and her asking someone for marriage is no easy walk in the park its for definite.

    Sure enough you like her and are attracted to her.

    Do you know her family and does she know yours all that is key for a marriage

    And during the last 3 years youve known her are you sure youve had enough time to know her? Youll likley be graduating and starting a job etc , its not uncommon to find someone then


    Finally, are you more worried about other peoples reaction or do have some slight small doubts as to whether you fully like her and want a committed future?

    Just some questions i thought might help you think some more.
    Ultimatley, if you know its right , do what YOU think is best.
    Hope this helps

    Keep smiling
    Smile43
    Actually language is the same. Both Punjabi, and nope I don't think my family or friends would look down upon me at all.
    And not many seem modest from the Sikh girls I know. A lot go to clubs and drink etc. but I'm not doubting that there are modest Sikh girls out there. And I've known her for two years.
    And I don't care about other people's reactions at all. I just want to know out of interest if other Sikhs would be open to doing the same.
    Nope, I know I will be committed for the future
    • #7
    #7

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Personally it seems to me that as you believe islam is right, everything else must be wrong. Take a moment to think about this, sikhi is against idol worship, from the very beginnings. Many hundreds of years have gone by, and this has always been the case. SGGS has been our guru for just over 300 years, within it itself it talks of how idol worship should not be practised. The gurus themselves write it. So then why, according to your views, would Guru Gobind singh then subject to this idol worship? The obvious answer is he didn't, and that SGGS is far more than just an idol, infact it is considered extremely stupid that one would even make a comparison. The facts stand, you may think it is an idol, but that just reflects your understanding of the religion. I will not be replying to further posts as you said yourself, we seem to be going round in circles
    Can you explain how standing before the Granth and asking the Gurus/Waheguru for blessing and protection is any different to standing before a statue with holy texts written on it and then praying to God for blessings and protection?

    I understand that the Gurus were against proper idols; however I also think that the Sikhs did not realise that they had fallen into idolatry albeit not to the same level as one using a statue - perhaps there is not enough stress on strictly avoiding idolation, with only emphasis in Sikhism being to avoid proper idols, thus forgiving this minor lapse - this would therefore mean that Sikhs are not proper idolators but still technically engage in idolatry to some degree; whether the Guru was aware of this or not is not my concern.

    Going back to the very fundamental reason why I was even arguing this in the first place: according to Islam, Sikhs are Idolators and Polytheists and therefore are not considered monotheists by the Islamic definition. Although you may disagree with this conclusion, this was why were arguing this topic - to work out whether even liberal Muslims could marry a Sikh because they claim to be monotheistic.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Can you explain how standing before the Granth and asking the Gurus/Waheguru for blessing and protection is any different to standing before a statue with holy texts written on it and then praying to God for blessings and protection?

    I understand that the Gurus were against proper idols; however I also think that the Sikhs did not realise that they had fallen into idolatry albeit not to the same level as one using a statue - perhaps there is not enough stress on strictly avoiding idolation, with only emphasis in Sikhism being to avoid proper idols, thus forgiving this minor lapse - this would therefore mean that Sikhs are not proper idolators but still technically engage in idolatry to some degree; whether the Guru was aware of this or not is not my concern.

    Going back to the very fundamental reason why I was even arguing this in the first place: according to Islam, Sikhs are Idolators and Polytheists and therefore are not considered monotheists by the Islamic definition. Although you may disagree with this conclusion, this was why were arguing this topic - to work out whether even liberal Muslims could marry a Sikh because they claim to be monotheistic.
    Okay so SGGS is our Guru. It was given the title of Guru by the previous guru. Sikhs have always bowed down to the guru, and treated them as our King. Now the guru is SGGS and therefore they are now our King. Therefore we bow down to them, and treat them the way we do, as a King.

    Well considering sikhi to not monotheistic is another area Islam is incorrect in, however that's none of my business.
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    I imagine it would be really hard to find many - I know a massive Sikh community and marring a Muslim person is considered the worst possible course of action. A cousin of mine married a Muslim but she cut off the family and converted completely. I'm yet to meet a Sikh who marries a Muslim, does not convert and keeps their ties with the Sikh community. I hope this is possible for me, and others if it is in their best interests to marry a partner if their own choosing.
    • #7
    #7

    (Original post by TheALevelStudent)
    Okay so SGGS is our Guru. It was given the title of Guru by the previous guru. Sikhs have always bowed down to the guru, and treated them as our King. Now the guru is SGGS and therefore they are now our King. Therefore we bow down to them, and treat them the way we do, as a King.

    Well considering sikhi to not monotheistic is another area Islam is incorrect in, however that's none of my business.
    It wasn't just the bowing down thing which I was considering idolatry exclusively - please refer to the discussion from the last few pages.

    In Islam we have an extremely strict definition of monotheism, so the issue is that Sikhism doesn't meet this criteria; it does not matter if Sikhism meets its own criteria for monotheism because in the matter that was being discussed, we were seeing if even a liberal interpretation of the Quran would allow Musims to marry a Sikh - subsequently Sikhs would not be considered monotheists by our standards and therefore even a liberal Muslim should not consider marrying a Sikh to be permissible.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Jasveer99)
    I imagine it would be really hard to find many - I know a massive Sikh community and marring a Muslim person is considered the worst possible course of action. A cousin of mine married a Muslim but she cut off the family and converted completely. I'm yet to meet a Sikh who marries a Muslim, does not convert and keeps their ties with the Sikh community. I hope this is possible for me, and others if it is in their best interests to marry a partner if their own choosing.
    That's sad to hear that the community is like that. I don't see why I'd distance myself from the community or anyone once I proceed with this.
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    I think it is sad because I'm going through it and I know of others who are going brought the same conflict between two cultures and religions. But it is understandable why communities feel the need to reserve their identity and religious heritage and feel interracial marriage is in direct conflict with this. I think the onus lies on the people engaging in an interracial marriage to be open to communication, remain patient, understanding and try to demonstrate their intentions clearly. It's a difficult situation for anyone, take the religious and cultural issues away, I equally know of a friend whose family is atheist and English but whose mums family disowned her because they did not approve of her partner.
    • #8
    #8

    Sorry Anonymous, but being a Muslim, an practising Muslim, I find it a problem to marry a Sikh. My parents would even approve so?
 
 
 
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