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    • #11
    #11

    Can't believe I'm actually gonna write this.

    But I had a not so dissimilar experience. Sober.

    I didn't say no. I didn't say yes. I didn't physically resist. I did cry though (although apparently that was my eyes watering due to his 'size').

    I was at his apartment as well, we had been for dinner and there was no way I could easily get back home and Yknow I assumed that considering I knew the guy fairly well or was in the process of getting to know that it wasn't unreasonable to stay at his.

    I had already mentioned earlier in the evening I did not wish to have sex to ensure that my staying there was not suggesting I wanted to.

    But he just did it, and I let him do it, at no point did I say no but I certainly did not say yes.

    I wasn't on the pill and he didn't wear a condom. I wasn't drunk and yet I still couldn't ask him to wrap up. I felt that paralysed.

    I couldn't even tell him I didn't want him to *** inside me especially as I know I was ovulating around that time.

    In the morning I left, with no real affection from him, and trudged into central London to wait for 3 hours in soho for the morning after pill.

    Was I raped ? I don't think so. But I certainly didn't have enjoyable and consensual sex.

    The option that it's one or the other is problematic; there is certainly a grey area, and it is a grey area that largely goes unspoken about.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I'd never do that. One of the reason I am anonymous is so that no-one will question me.

    Now I am just waiting for the OP to reply to my text messages
    Oh god, I wasn't accusing you!

    I was just....it was meant rhetorically, you know?

    Breaks my ****ing heart, rape
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    (Original post by abraaacadabra)
    This was rape.

    Rape is intercourse carried out without consent. Consent cannot be given by a person who is drunk, since they are not in a state of mind to give permission. He was sober, and was significantly older than you - he was mature enough and of a state of mind to realise that he should never have taken advantage of you while you were in that position. Additionally, the fact that he had to coerce you into it even while you were in this vulnerable position says it all. I'm not sure if you at any point said yes to him, but even if you never said no, that doesn't mean it wasn't rape.
    Im not a fan of the saying "Consent cannot be given by a person who is drunk".
    The person chose to get drunk. Since drinking is for 18+ only, the person drinking should be responsible for how much they consume. Nonetheless, the law is the law, so a person still cannot consent when they are drunk.

    On the other hand, how can you question the alleged rapists maturity while OP was the one acting like an immature drunk in the bus?
    "bus and I vaguely remember like talking to everyone on the bus and I met this guy (he was completely sober) "
    Do you think a group of drunk people talk quietly on public transport?

    Like seriously, OP says she wont go to the cops, but if she was actually raped she should have, and if what she says is true, there is stacking evidence against the alleged rapist. She clearly remembers him being sober. Was he sober for the whole night? How would OP know that?

    EDIT: I believe OP is skewing/picking what she wants to say.
    EDIT 2: I actually apologies for the first edit if you are writing the entire truth, its just that in 99% of cases where I have seen this, its mainly to do with regret than rape.
    • #12
    #12

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I'd never do that. One of the reason I am anonymous is so that no-one will question me.

    Now I am just waiting for the OP to reply to my text messages
    OP won't reply to mine either, I'm scared. I've just called her.
    • #13
    #13

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    OP won't reply to mine either, I'm scared. I've just called her.
    I think she is asleep, at least that is what she said to me a couple of hours ago.
    And dw i would never say who the OP is either
    just hope she will be ok
    • #12
    #12

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I think she is asleep, at least that is what she said to me a couple of hours ago.
    And dw i would never say who the OP is either
    just hope she will be ok
    I have a tendency to worry about OP. I hope she will be okay. I would never say who OP is either.

    I hope she is asleep, although she is never asleep at this hour on most days :/
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    As someone who works in the field of sexual trauma, a lot of these replies scare me. The lack of basic knowledge about consent.. I really hope the universities you go to or plan to go to have a decent consent training programme.

    1. Alcohol levels are measured via blood sample or "reasonable man" quantities. A litre of alcohol is considered a large amount especially when compared to recommended daily allowances. Depending on the alcohol % this can be more than enough to make this scenario statutory rape via inability to consent.

    2. Coercion IS rape. If you need to coerce someone to do something then you know they don't want to do it. That's just basic common sense and it still applies with sex.

    3. Telling someone your address doesn't indicate consent to sex nor your ability to consent. You can be fine to remember that kind of info (that you're asked to recall a lot) and then the effects of the alcohol can hit.

    4. I'm not sure what planet you live on if you don't recognise crying as a sign of someone not enjoying sex.

    5. Fight flight freeze and comply are common and accepted responses to an attempted attack; including rape. This is why consent ads and training focus on explicit, continual consent which includes more than the word yes.

    6. If someone is raped whilst drunk, high, walking alone, wearing skimpy clothing or because they chose to be friendly, they don't deserve to be raped. None of those things cause rape and you can't accidentally rape someone. The rapist chooses to rape either very consciously or by thinking it's okay to coerce or otherwise put their needs first. Or, thinking it's okay because the person is too drunk to remember/be believed anyway.

    To anyone who is reading this thread and might have been raped.. Seriously, seek professional support. Don't hurt yourself and increase that self hate by reading the uninformed or outright wrong rhetoric online. You don't have to report your attack to get help.

    Try rape crisis, use google to search for specialist counselling charities or therapists in your area, RAINN have an online chat service which is open to all countries. Don't suffer in silence but more importantly don't believe anyone who tells you that's it's your fault or that you have some responsibility to share. You don't. That's comment comes because people want to believe they could prevent rape if they behaved a certain way. Rather than focussing on the rapists
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    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    As someone who works in the field of sexual trauma, a lot of these replies scare me. The lack of basic knowledge about consent.. I really hope the universities you go to or plan to go to have a decent consent training programme.

    1. Alcohol levels are measured via blood sample or "reasonable man" quantities. A litre of alcohol is considered a large amount especially when compared to recommended daily allowances. Depending on the alcohol % this can be more than enough to make this scenario statutory rape via inability to consent.

    2. Coercion IS rape. If you need to coerce someone to do something then you know they don't want to do it. That's just basic common sense and it still applies with sex.

    3. Telling someone your address doesn't indicate consent to sex nor your ability to consent. You can be fine to remember that kind of info (that you're asked to recall a lot) and then the effects of the alcohol can hit.

    4. I'm not sure what planet you live on if you don't recognise crying as a sign of someone not enjoying sex.

    5. Fight flight freeze and comply are common and accepted responses to an attempted attack; including rape. This is why consent ads and training focus on explicit, continual consent which includes more than the word yes.

    6. If someone is raped whilst drunk, high, walking alone, wearing skimpy clothing or because they chose to be friendly, they don't deserve to be raped. None of those things cause rape and you can't accidentally rape someone. The rapist chooses to rape either very consciously or by thinking it's okay to coerce or otherwise put their needs first. Or, thinking it's okay because the person is too drunk to remember/be believed anyway.

    To anyone who is reading this thread and might have been raped.. Seriously, seek professional support. Don't hurt yourself and increase that self hate by reading the uninformed or outright wrong rhetoric online. You don't have to report your attack to get help.

    Try rape crisis, use google to search for specialist counselling charities or therapists in your area, RAINN have an online chat service which is open to all countries. Don't suffer in silence but more importantly don't believe anyone who tells you that's it's your fault or that you have some responsibility to share. You don't. That's comment comes because people want to believe they could prevent rape if they behaved a certain way. Rather than focussing on the rapists
    If OP was raped, she should go to the police no?
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I have a tendency to worry about OP. I hope she will be okay. I would never say who OP is either.

    I hope she is asleep, although she is never asleep at this hour on most days :/
    Do you know OP irl? Or did you meet OP via this forum.
    If you met her via this forum then OMG i might know who she is, and she now thinks im an ass for everything iv said.

    Unfortunately I stand by my words.

    If OP isnt who I think it is, then "Move along..Move along.."
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    I don't think "should" is the right answer no. Maybe if people don't immediately jump to tell a rape victim they weren't raped or that they were drunk and stupid so partly to blame, maybe victims would report rape the way others feel safe to report other crimes. But it's a long, stressful process that usually doesn't result in a trial and even more commonly doesn't result in a conviction.

    I think we should support people in their decision to report or not report. Personally I would encourage reporting but only if it was safe for that person to do so, including safe in relation to their mental health too. It's not something people can do without support and often the type of counselling they can have is very limited.
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    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    As someone who works in the field of sexual trauma, a lot of these replies scare me. The lack of basic knowledge about consent.. I really hope the universities you go to or plan to go to have a decent consent training programme.

    1. Alcohol levels are measured via blood sample or "reasonable man" quantities. A litre of alcohol is considered a large amount especially when compared to recommended daily allowances. Depending on the alcohol % this can be more than enough to make this scenario statutory rape via inability to consent.

    2. Coercion IS rape. If you need to coerce someone to do something then you know they don't want to do it. That's just basic common sense and it still applies with sex.

    3. Telling someone your address doesn't indicate consent to sex nor your ability to consent. You can be fine to remember that kind of info (that you're asked to recall a lot) and then the effects of the alcohol can hit.

    4. I'm not sure what planet you live on if you don't recognise crying as a sign of someone not enjoying sex.

    5. Fight flight freeze and comply are common and accepted responses to an attempted attack; including rape. This is why consent ads and training focus on explicit, continual consent which includes more than the word yes.

    6. If someone is raped whilst drunk, high, walking alone, wearing skimpy clothing or because they chose to be friendly, they don't deserve to be raped. None of those things cause rape and you can't accidentally rape someone. The rapist chooses to rape either very consciously or by thinking it's okay to coerce or otherwise put their needs first. Or, thinking it's okay because the person is too drunk to remember/be believed anyway.

    To anyone who is reading this thread and might have been raped.. Seriously, seek professional support. Don't hurt yourself and increase that self hate by reading the uninformed or outright wrong rhetoric online. You don't have to report your attack to get help.

    Try rape crisis, use google to search for specialist counselling charities or therapists in your area, RAINN have an online chat service which is open to all countries. Don't suffer in silence but more importantly don't believe anyone who tells you that's it's your fault or that you have some responsibility to share. You don't. That's comment comes because people want to believe they could prevent rape if they behaved a certain way. Rather than focussing on the rapists
    Fight flight freeze and comply is a real genuine thing.

    And further exacerbates these grey areas with consent.

    You can't say no or physically resist if you're frozen and paralysed, mentally and physically.
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    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    I don't think "should" is the right answer no. Maybe if people don't immediately jump to tell a rape victim they weren't raped or that they were drunk and stupid so partly to blame, maybe victims would report rape the way others feel safe to report other crimes. But it's a long, stressful process that usually doesn't result in a trial and even more commonly doesn't result in a conviction.

    I think we should support people in their decision to report or not report. Personally I would encourage reporting but only if it was safe for that person to do so, including safe in relation to their mental health too. It's not something people can do without support and often the type of counselling they can have is very limited.
    Hold on a second. By OP not posting her story, she would have no one to tell her she was not raped.
    But from the lack of evidence OP presented, and what she has actually presented, it sounds a lot like regret.

    Rape is illegal, if the crime was committed go to the police and/or seek professional help, I know this forum is a good place to vent, but if you were stabbed would you post about it online before you go to the police?

    The term rape is overly used nowadays, and is usually biased in favor of females.
    example:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...investigation/

    Being wrongfully accused of rape and seriously ruin a persons life (the person being acused), especially if its due to delusions (not saying OP has delusions, just saying some people believe they were raped, when they were not)
    • #14
    #14

    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    If OP was raped, she should go to the police no?
    She doesn't want to. Can you really blame her? This thread is a perfect illustration of why so many victims are reluctant to report rape.
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    Fight flight freeze and comply is a real genuine thing.

    And further exacerbates these grey areas with consent.

    You can't say no or physically resist if you're frozen and paralysed, mentally and physically.
    I know what you mean but I don't think there's anything gray about rape and consent. If someone isn't actively responding in a positive way, you should presume they're no longer into it and stop. It's up to the other person to then say what's going on for them if they are actually okay.

    You know when someone isn't moving and is quiet. You don't need to be in a relationship with that person or even stone cold sober to know that.

    If you're a good lover, you pay attention to your partner and not just your own gratification. Which means you'd notice and _want_ to notice when they're not that into whatever you're doing because you're invested in giving them the best orgasm. Or whatever. It's not just about rape prevention - being this observant and considerate makes consensual sex better.

    It's difficult to argue with those benefits
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    She doesn't want to. Can you really blame her? This thread is a perfect illustration of why so many victims are reluctant to report rape.
    Seeing how ALOT of the time men are falsely accused leading to it ruining their lives for being accused, which is the reason Im defending mens rights in this thread.
    Im sick of men being falsely accused due to self gain or regrets.

    If you have been raped, I strongly suggest you go to the police. Nothing else will do justice.

    EDIT: Seriosuly. Go to the police if you have been raped. By not going to the police you are letting another rapist freely roam the streets.
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    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    Hold on a second. By OP not posting her story, she would have no one to tell her she was not raped.
    But from the lack of evidence OP presented, and what she has actually presented, it sounds a lot like regret.

    Rape is illegal, if the crime was committed go to the police and/or seek professional help, I know this forum is a good place to vent, but if you were stabbed would you post about it online before you go to the police?

    The term rape is overly used nowadays, and is usually biased in favor of females.
    example:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...investigation/

    Being wrongfully accused of rape and seriously ruin a persons life (the person being acused), especially if its due to delusions (not saying OP has delusions, just saying some people believe they were raped, when they were not)
    I know you mean well and I understand your points. But being stabbed and having sex that you don't think you consented to but aren't sure if it's rape are two completely separate things.

    a lot of complex psychology surrounds the build up to and act of sex. I often haven't explicitly consented to a boyfriend of mine but was I raped when we had sex? Obviously not.

    But when you don't explicitly consent and in your mind you don't feel like you've implicitly consented it's very confusing. Especially if you can objectively see what some of the things you did might have seem like implied consent and therefore it's not exactly fair to turn round and say that was rape.

    With situations like OP's comes confusion and uncertainty around what this was. Even if every single person said yes this was rape she may still not want to go to the police because going through that process can be just as bad in itself.

    If anything she's preventing any further post traumatic stress type delusion by using TSR for advice and getting different opinions so that maybe she can have closure in her mind.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    She doesn't want to. Can you really blame her? This thread is a perfect illustration of why so many victims are reluctant to report rape.
    Still no clarification on the boyfriend. She barely mentions him, i'd have thought that his reaction might have been her main concern. Obviously if she was raped she should report it, and the circumstances are suspicious, but if she cheated her credibility is under question in my view.

    I can't trust the word of a stranger who betrays the person closest to them.
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    (Original post by ripjonsnow)
    Hold on a second. By OP not posting her story, she would have no one to tell her she was not raped.
    But from the lack of evidence OP presented, and what she has actually presented, it sounds a lot like regret.

    Rape is illegal, if the crime was committed go to the police and/or seek professional help, I know this forum is a good place to vent, but if you were stabbed would you post about it online before you go to the police?

    The term rape is overly used nowadays, and is usually biased in favor of females.
    example:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...investigation/

    Being wrongfully accused of rape and seriously ruin a persons life (the person being acused), especially if its due to delusions (not saying OP has delusions, just saying some people believe they were raped, when they were not)
    I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here because you're a bit all over the place.

    1. Comparing it to being stabbed is like comparing the sun to the moon. Are you confused about being stabbed? were you coerced into walking into the knife? Will people judge you if you are drunk when you are stabbed?

    2. The home office and keir starmer released a report within the last few years which looked at false reporting and how uncommon it was. It's worth reading.

    3. The occurrence of male rape victims and the way society treats them is really irrelevant to this scenario. And I really don't see what your point is with this.

    4. It's really none of your business if they report. Reporting now, reporting in 40 years time or never reporting holds no relevance to the truth of a rape and the law believes as such.
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    (Original post by ~Tara~)
    I know what you mean but I don't think there's anything gray about rape and consent. If someone isn't actively responding in a positive way, you should presume they're no longer into it and stop. It's up to the other person to then say what's going on for them if they are actually okay.

    You know when someone isn't moving and is quiet. You don't need to be in a relationship with that person or even stone cold sober to know that.

    If you're a good lover, you pay attention to your partner and not just your own gratification. Which means you'd notice and _want_ to notice when they're not that into whatever you're doing because you're invested in giving them the best orgasm. Or whatever. It's not just about rape prevention - being this observant and considerate makes consensual sex better.

    It's difficult to argue with those benefits
    I'm not arguing with them but the onus shouldn't just be on the guy and plus if he's drunk and it's just a one night thing how is he supposed to pick up on such cues. Is this rule don't have sex if anyone is drunk if you don't know them? Idk. I think there is a grey area both objectively and from personal experience.

    It doesn't have to be rape or consensual sex, I believe there is a grey area.
    • #13
    #13

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I have a tendency to worry about OP. I hope she will be okay. I would never say who OP is either.

    I hope she is asleep, although she is never asleep at this hour on most days :/
    Yeah same she can be rather impulsive, and yeah i agree, usually she is up late but she said something about being washed out and stuff so she wait ill check what she said....
    yeah she said something along the lines of although it is early she felt drained and said goodnight
    so hopefully she is ok x
 
 
 
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