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Eu: In or out? Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Maybe to see if you're as heavily in as your bosses tell you to make the site

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    oh please, you talk as if the brexiters are oppressed on this site. In fact, you lot are perfectly allowed to spread your lies around.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Meh. You think the neoliberal's in the Out Campaign are any better?

    In any case:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7053921.html
    I'm not interesting in that pathetic argument, I've heard it so much and it's defeatist....'People are voting for terrible governments and believe what the media teels them about electing 'leftists' and won't protect their liberty and democracy, and use their democratic voice to get better results in our own country, especially just now, so let's just give it up and hand away all our democracy to someone else for the rest of time...

    No, in short, I don't they are better, and my reason for supporting our own sovereignty as an absolute, has absolutely nothing to do with what I think of them. Such people must be defeated from within and by reclaiming our solidarity, and nationhood, if we trade it away now, we are gone for good, and our ability to create that innovative, defiant, brilliant spirit again is gone for good.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    I'm not interesting in that pathetic argument, I've heard it so much and it's defeatist....'People are voting for terrible governments and believe what the media teels them about electing 'leftists' and won't protect their liberty and democracy, and use their democratic voice to get better results in our own country, especially just now, so let's just give it up and hand away all our democracy to someone else for the rest of time...

    No, in short, I don't they are better, and my reason for supporting our own sovereignty as an absolute, has absolutely nothing to do with what I think of them. Such people must be defeated from within and by reclaiming our solidarity, and nationhood, if we trade it away now, we are gone for good, and our ability to create that innovative, defiant, brilliant spirit again is gone for good.
    How is wanting to transform Europe in to a true social democracy defeatist?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    How is wanting to transform Europe in to a true social democracy defeatist?
    It's giving away our own sovereignty and democracy to an unaccountable autocratic mess. They will not become social democracy, as the enthusiastic, obedient support for Obama over TTIP shows. It will be boon time for US corporate monopolies.
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    I reckon voting out will rip the United Kingdom apart, get the sense that Sturgeon would much rather be in the Eu and if it came to it she would call another independence referendum. Scotland would then join the EU. I personally think this would **** Scotland up and make it a complete minority of a country. The UK is a strong force and an even bigger one with inside the EU. I haven't researched a lot on this matter so I could be completely off here. The EU is the safe bet and I don't believe we should risk putting our country in jeopardy.


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    (Original post by Ln99)
    I reckon voting out will rip the United Kingdom apart, get the sense that Sturgeon would much rather be in the Eu and if it came to it she would call another independence referendum. Scotland would then join the EU. I personally think this would **** Scotland up and make it a complete minority of a country. The UK is a strong force and an even bigger one with inside the EU. I haven't researched a lot on this matter so I could be completely off here. The EU is the safe bet and I don't believe we should risk putting our country in jeopardy.


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    Usually, the less people know, about the EU, the more supportive they are of it. This is my explanation of why remain does significantly worse on online polls.

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    You are not really putting your country in jeopardy by voting leave, but are basically giving it away by voting remain.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    It's giving away our own sovereignty and democracy to an unaccountable autocratic mess. They will not become social democracy, as the enthusiastic obedient support for Obama over TTIP shows. It will be boon time for US corporate monopolies.
    I would say they are far more likely to become a social democracy than the UK is. Reverting back to the days of nation states will allow TNCs and great powers to play Europe against each other. Especially under the stewardship of the brexit gang that will make Osborne look like a bleeding heart sentimentalist. Notice that Farage, Hannan and Boris have all said they want to privatise the NHS... Notice that euro sceptic parties have received funding from Putin.

    Now of course I accept that the EU is at present a neoliberal institution, but if you really want to make a difference stay in to change it is the best way forward. We are seeing anti neoliberal movements in Greece, Spain, Austria and Italy among others. The troika is tottering. We need to be in the EU on solidarity with our friends in Europe to work for a better continent for all.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I would say they are far more likely to become a social democracy than the UK is. Reverting back to the days of nation states will allow TNCs and great powers to play Europe against each other. Especially under the stewardship of the brexit gang that will make Osborne look like a bleeding heart sentimentalist. Notice that Farage, Hannan and Boris have all said they want to privatise the NHS... Notice that euro sceptic parties have received funding from Putin.

    Now of course I accept that the EU is at present a neoliberal institution, but if you really want to make a difference stay in to change it is the best way forward. We are seeing anti neoliberal movements in Greece, Spain, Austria and Italy among others. The troika is tottering. We need to be in the EU on solidarity with our friends in Europe to work for a better continent for all.
    But none of what you suggest will happen in an independent Britain because they won't for policies that far right economically, OK some young people are right wing, but we are already reaching the tipping point, people are seeing through economics, climate change is accelerating, and they won't vote ina government under the stewardship of such people. It won't be credible. And, as I say, we shouldn't fear Europe and the US, I personally believe they are headed for very sharp decline in terms of clout, we should disentangle. China and Russia will be the contenders after that.

    That aside the world faces certain chaotic factors anyway, to argue in terms of what won't be disruptive is very odd in my view, when what is disruptive in temrs of demographics, climate change, sea level rise, militant islam and all is so inevitable and so clearly not helped by being IN.
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    Im voting leave. However, I'll be happy with whatever the result.

    Here are a few of my reasons for leaving:

    Leaving EU will control borders on how many people come in and out. Those who have already immigrated will definitely be able to stay, so thats fine.

    Leaving will also decrease the damage to car busineses. Im a car trader. I buy cars from salvage companies. Most quality cars at salvage companies (BMWs, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Audi and many other types of cars) are bidded on and hit hard by EU foreigners. These cars then become less easy to buy at a good value by English citizens. The EU foreigners bid hard on these vehicles, put them on very large lorrys and send them to their own country to make profit. It becomes less easy for us British citizens to make profit from these quality cars.

    Also voting because I want to have less pressure on society and population. Nowadays, I see young foreigners trying to steal from shops. I also see foreigners blocking driveways with their car out of jealousy. I also see young foreigners trying to intimidate me or cause nuisance.
    However, this is not the case with all foreign EU citizens. Not everyone does this.

    Im also voting leave because I believe in our country. I believe that whatever the consequences, we can survive. We need to be confident and believe in ourselves.
    Once we leave the EU and get ourselves on our feet, maybe we can still be able to invest in other poorer EU countries.
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    (Original post by darkvibes)
    see in reality younger people dont give a sh*t about sovereignty and british pride but all the people on TSR do for some reason. In reality younger people are worried about the economic future whereas people on TSR are more scared that our houses are going to be taken by foreigners.
    I'm both worried for our democracy and the economic future.

    And don't imply leave voters will vote / would vote leave for the exclusive reason of "foreigners!"; that's a load of bullcrap and you know it.

    (Original post by celloel)
    Out.

    I'm 16, so I cannot actually vote, but if I were able to I would be voting out.
    I never knew you were that young! (despite me only being 17.)

    You seemed [a lot] older than that.

    Edit: And kudos for would-be voting leave.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Im voting leave. However, I'll be happy with whatever the result.

    Here are a few of my reasons for leaving:

    Leaving EU will control borders on how many people come in and out. Those who have already immigrated will definitely be able to stay, so thats fine.

    Leaving will also decrease the damage to car busineses. Im a car trader. I buy cars from salvage companies. Most quality cars at salvage companies (BMWs, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Audi and many other types of cars) are bidded on and hit hard by EU foreigners. These cars then become less easy to buy at a good value by English citizens. The EU foreigners bid hard on these vehicles, put them on very large lorrys and send them to their own country to make profit. It becomes less easy for us British citizens to make profit from these quality cars.

    Also voting because I want to have less pressure on society and population. Nowadays, I see young foreigners trying to steal from shops. I also see foreigners blocking driveways with their car out of jealousy. I also see young foreigners trying to intimidate me or cause nuisance.
    However, this is not the case with all foreign EU citizens. Not everyone does this.

    Im also voting leave because I believe in our country. I believe that whatever the consequences, we can survive. We need to be confident and believe in ourselves.
    Once we leave the EU and get ourselves on our feet, maybe we can still be able to invest in other poorer EU countries.
    1. We won't control our borders. Currently most immigrants come to the UK from outside the EU. A SIGNIFICANTLY higher proportion of EU (over non-EU) immigrants are educated, a significantly higher proportion are in work, a significantly lower proportion are on benefits, so on. If we're already not controlling non-EU immigration, why do you think we'd suddenly start controlling EU immigration? If you're that bothered about controlling our borders, you should start by demanding that we control the immigration that we already can control, because that's far less beneficial than immigration from the EU.

    We also have absolutely no idea whether people who have already immigrated will be able to stay, that's hardly even been discussed.

    2. I see young British natives stealing from shops. I see young British natives blocking driveways and intimidating people.

    Like you said, it's not the case with all foreign EU citizens, and it's completely wrong to generalize (especially considering that EU immigrants are more educated than British natives on average), so I don't understand why that's any reason to leave.
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    (Original post by plstudent)
    Usually, the less people know, about the EU, the more supportive they are of it. This is my explanation of why remain does significantly worse on online polls.

    Name:  11015848_1607951962775736_6929479405033354731_n.jpg
Views: 51
Size:  32.9 KB

    You are not really putting your country in jeopardy by voting leave, but are basically giving it away by voting remain.
    Hahaha, what? Online polls are targeted mainly at the Armchair Aristotles who form their entire view of the world from skimming the Daily Mail. That's why the leave campaign is always ahead in online polls. Statistically, educated people are significantly more like to support remaining.
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    (Original post by adam9317)
    Would it tend to be that most people voting leave would be UKIP supporters, or at least right wingers?
    Think of it this way. If we leave there will be no need for UKIP or Nigel garage to be in politics anymore😂
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Hahaha, what? Online polls are targeted mainly at the Armchair Aristotles who form their entire view of the world from skimming the Daily Mail. That's why the leave campaign is always ahead in online polls. Statistically, educated people are significantly more like to support remaining.
    Educated people only learn about the positives of the EU, if at all. People online have been exposed to more diverse opinions.
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    (Original post by Ln99)
    I reckon voting out will rip the United Kingdom apart, get the sense that Sturgeon would much rather be in the Eu and if it came to it she would call another independence referendum. Scotland would then join the EU. I personally think this would **** Scotland up and make it a complete minority of a country. The UK is a strong force and an even bigger one with inside the EU. I haven't researched a lot on this matter so I could be completely off here. The EU is the safe bet and I don't believe we should risk putting our country in jeopardy.


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    So because the Scots are being dumb and spiteful, we should remain in this corrupt unaccountable organisation and be blackmailed into giving away our power enough to make the Scots feel better about us...? England should be better than that, total cop out and a shrinking violet move.
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    (Original post by lolatmaths)
    oh please, you talk as if the brexiters are oppressed on this site. In fact, you lot are perfectly allowed to spread your lies around.
    If the Brexit newspapers think they can in intimidate us with their hidden threats, they'd better watch out!
    Our patience has its limits. One day, we'll shut their dirty, lying Brexit mouths!
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    If the Brexit newspapers think they can in intimidate us with their hidden threats, they'd better watch out!
    Our patience has its limits. One day, we'll shut their dirty, lying Brexit mouths!
    Lool, pretty much yh. Brexit newspapers adored by plebs convincing the simpletons that brexit is the way. The amount of spending rupert murdochs establishment spends on promoting brexit is far greater than how much the government is spending.
    Luckily a brexit looks unlikely and polls have always said we're going to vote remain
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    (Original post by lolatmaths)
    Lool, pretty much yh. Brexit newspapers adored by plebs convincing the simpletons that brexit is the way. The amount of spending rupert murdochs establishment spends on promoting brexit is far greater than how much the government is spending.
    Luckily a brexit looks unlikely and polls have always said we're going to vote remain
    That was a Goebells quote

    Stay classy, remain camp
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    (Original post by string210)
    Apparently according to paper's i've read recently it suggests alot of students are going to vote in, and the majority of brexiters are middle aged to pensioners.
    I'm personally a brexiter but apparently i'm in the minority. Also if we did vote to leave, who would be prime minister , david cameron or someone else?

    So doing a few straw poll's because i'm interested so see if that's true.
    I voted out.


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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    I never knew you were that young! (despite me only being 17.)

    You seemed [a lot] older than that.

    Edit: And kudos for would-be voting leave.
    I am turning 17 soon though, if you wanna send a birthday card
    Kudos to you also!
 
 
 
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