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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    That reaction is understandable, but I'm not sure I'd describe that situation as 'normal'. Maybe I just live a sheltered life but I have never heard of someone's parents bullying them into mental illness.

    If you've been genuinely mistreated by your parents you have a legitimate grievance, but in ordinary circumstances you should be grateful to have been provided for and not go around passing judgement on every individual parenting decision they've made.
    I would say feeling anger towards someone who's negatively impacted your life, be it a parent or a school bully, is normal.
    I'm grateful for how my parents have raised me, and I wish they'd done some things differently, and I express that to them because those things still impact me now. But I don't believe that I should be filled with gratitude because they feed me. That's their legal obligation. I don't feel grateful towards someone who pays their taxes but I'd be outraged if they didn't because they're legally obliged to and I would expect nothing less. That's the distinction I think people get confused about.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi I'm sort of in shock at the moment. Sorry it's a long story but if you have any advice or comments I appreciate it.

    My parents let my extremely aggressive schizophrenic brother take my elderly dog out. He has attacked her (and us) before and I've told my parents not to let him take her because his history. They let him take her anyway and when he returned hours later she was covered in some kind of gross sticky liquid and was dragging both her legs behind her one of which was covered in blood. My brother admitted she got in his way so he kicked her but he has obviously done much worse. She also refuses to eat anything, which is completely unlike her. When she came back in such a horrific state I asked my parents to do something like challenge him as to what exactly he did and to take her to the vet. They didn't care whatsoever and were more concerned with defendeding my brother because he's "mentally unwell". So I just snapped and kicked my mother twice as hard as I could asking her how she likes it. She looked at me in horror then started crying and I noticed two massive bruises come up within seconds.

    I instantly regretted doing it and feel really guilty for causing my mum pain as I've never had an argument with her in all my 18 years. She's my best friend and I can't believe I did this. The other day I was violently ill and she took care of me all day and night even taking the day off of work.

    My parents just left the house with my mum crying as she left. I feel so upset and guilty? How to I make this up to her? I know she feels incredibly betrayed by my violence.

    PS I have phoned the emergency vets who advised me to monitor the dog until my parents come back and then try and bring her in later if she is still lame and/or not eating
    Okay, the most important thing to do right now is get the dog to the vets and get her treated. she is an innocent creature, and she does not deserve to be wound up in these human arguments when she has provided nothing but unconditional love. you also need to speak to your mum and calmly explain that you would never, ever want to cause harm to her, but now is not the time to have the argument, sort it after you've sorted the dog and made sure your brother is in a safe and stable environment. you just wanted her to understand how it feels, and explain to her that she is being irresponsible by letting your brother take the dog out. explain to her that you know she is in an impossible situation and it hurts, but you need to get help for your brother if this is what he is doing to other beings because he is a danger to himself and others, and he must be suffering internally just as you all are. I think social service intervention would be a good idea.

    I'm so sorry you're going through this xxx
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Yeah and that must be really difficult but if this child has already had a history of doing horrible things to the animal I don't think that's an excuse at all. Like if it was the first time maybe it's a bit different but this kid already hurt the dog before so for the Mum to allow the kid to take the dog knowing it's completely possible and likely that this would happen I think is wholly unacceptable, like the kid is unwell and really his actions aren't his fault but this parent allowing this to happen for a second time I personally think is completely her fault now
    I have a little trouble with the concept of actions not being 'your fault' as soon as you can be described as 'ill' but 100% 'your fault' at any point leading up to that. The mother's actions are doubtless influenced by her horrible situation too.

    I don't know, I don't think it completely excuses her unambiguously wrong actions, but I don't feel entirely comfortable with rushing to judge this woman.

    Regardless, he clearly shouldn't have kicked her. There are apologies owed all round, and one overdue sectioning as far as I can make out, or at least a better system for supervision and treatment of this person.
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    (Original post by donutellme)
    You are really dumb...
    I hate people like you. But karma won't forgive you.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Why do we owe our parents anything? They chose to have children. We didn't come into existence by our choosing, they did it, and therefore it is their responsibility to bring up their children? You can be grateful for having a good upbringing without thinking that you owe your parents for doing so. Also, being older does not make you more intelligent, and unfortunately in a lot of cases does not make you more mature either.
    Who else's responsibility should it be haha?

    But having a good upbringing is extra, and also normal. And I also think you owe your parents the same love they show you. But if it's all done well, then you should be happy to give back.

    Just to clarify, you don't owe your parents jack for the sole fact that they conceived you. As in, only the people who raise you (foster parents. Etc) are the ones who matterm

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    (Original post by donutellme)
    Common sense told me that. I am inferior due to the simple fact that I lack life experience. Doesn't stop me from challenging, but I still respect their views and accept what they say most of the time, and it proves correct.

    Our debts are equal. I'm legally an adult now, yet I still live in their house and use their resources and more. Do I not owe them for this?
    I don't think life experience is a good qualifier here tbh. That means that I'm inferior to anyone older than me, but legally we are equal, and rightly so.
    pay rent then. I was under the assumption that that's what most people who live with their parents after, in my case year 13, do.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I have a little trouble with the concept of actions not being 'your fault' as soon as you can be described as 'ill' but 100% 'your fault' at any point leading up to that. The mother's actions are doubtless influenced by her horrible situation too.

    I don't know, I don't think it completely excuses her unambiguously wrong actions, but I don't feel entirely comfortable with rushing to judge this woman.

    Regardless, he clearly shouldn't have kicked her. There are apologies owed all round, and one overdue sectioning as far as I can make out, or at least a better system for supervision and treatment of this person.
    No I agree with you on the first point, but the difference for me is that she already let the kid take the dog before and this happened. This in itself, one time, was poor judgement, but as you say probably influenced by her horrible situation. Allowing the boy to take the dog a second time after this had happened, despite her situation, I find unacceptable. And 100% agree with sectioning.
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    (Original post by picklescamp)
    I would say feeling anger towards someone who's negatively impacted your life, be it a parent or a school bully, is normal.
    I'm grateful for how my parents have raised me, and I wish they'd done some things differently, and I express that to them because those things still impact me now. But I don't believe that I should be filled with gratitude because they feed me. That's their legal obligation. I don't feel grateful towards someone who pays their taxes but I'd be outraged if they didn't because they're legally obliged to and I would expect nothing less. That's the distinction I think people get confused about.
    Yeah, ingratitude towards taxpayers grates on me too, particularly in students who go around getting indignant because they aren't getting enough free money.

    Personally I think your parents' main failing was in not managing to instil a due sense of humility and gratitude in you.
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    (Original post by Ciel.)
    I hate people like you. But karma won't forgive you.
    And I hate people like you, so it's all okay. I wouldn't want to be liked by someone who's cool with beating up their parents.

    Karma can try whatever. As far as you're concerned though, I'm not an animal abuser either.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yeah, ingratitude towards taxpayers grates on me too, particularly in students who go around getting indignant because they aren't getting enough free money.

    Personally I think your parents' main failing was in not managing to instil a due sense of humility and gratitude in you.
    you don't know me, I couldn't be more grateful towards my parents because, as I have said, they're amazing.
    Wow, ok. I don't owe joe bloggs anything for paying his taxes. He got a state education paid for by my grandparents' taxes. I will pay for his kids' education through my taxes, which I will pay gladly without wanting to get a shiny gold star for doing my legal duty.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    Why do we owe our parents anything? They chose to have children. We didn't come into existence by our choosing, they did it, and therefore it is their responsibility to bring up their children? You can be grateful for having a good upbringing without thinking that you owe your parents for doing so. Also, being older does not make you more intelligent, and unfortunately in a lot of cases does not make you more mature either.
    If your parents aren't the sort who did the bare minimum for you and kicked you out once you turned 18 (or are going to) then yes, you do owe them. They might not demand anything from you but anyone who is truly grateful for what their parents have done (provided that they were good parents) will feel a sense of obligation towards them.

    There are parents who are still supporting their adult children through education and postgraduate degrees out of love and kindness, they don't have to do that. Those kids owe their parents and will acknowledge it if they have a shred of decency.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    If your parents aren't the sort who did the bare minimum for you and kicked you out once you turned 18 (or are going to) then yes, you do owe them. They might not demand anything from you but anyone who is truly grateful for what their parents have done (provided that they were good parents) will feel a sense of obligation towards them.

    There are parents who are still supporting their adult children through education and postgraduate degrees out of love and kindness, they don't have to do that. Those kids owe their parents and will acknowledge it if they have a shred of decency.
    I'm gonna take some credit because you obviously stole my brain to write this. Spot on
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    If your parents aren't the sort who did the bare minimum for you and kicked you out once you turned 18 (or are going to) then yes, you do owe them. They might not demand anything from you but anyone who is truly grateful for what their parents have done (provided that they were good parents) will feel a sense of obligation towards them.

    There are parents who are still supporting their adult children through education and postgraduate degrees out of love and kindness, they don't have to do that. Those kids owe their parents and will acknowledge it if they have a shred of decency.
    I don't think you should feel you 'owe' your parents just because they did the basic things a parent is meant to do and for me that includes not 'kicking you out' just because you've turned 18.
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    (Original post by picklescamp)
    I'm not lol, I'm an egalitarian. Don't know what kind of oppressive household you were brought up in that's led you to think you're inferior to your parents just cos they ****ed without protection one time. As long as you're still in their care, they owe you more than you owe them.
    I fail to see how they owe you more if they have housed you, fed you, took you to school, made sure you are well, were at your side when you was sick, etc..

    Provided your parents treat you well, you should have a level of respect for them and if you truly love your parents then you will do that without even realising it. It's just part of being a nice person.
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    (Original post by stratagems)

    Words have a lot of power.
    Evidently not on this Mum considering a) the boy had already hurt the dog once before and b) the OP had ASKED the Mum not to let the other person take the dog again. I definitely do not condone kicking your Mum. But maybe this might have more effect on her and she won't let the dog get hurt again, which I don't think is a bad thing.
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    (Original post by Legendary Quest)
    I fail to see how they owe you more if they have housed you, fed you, took you to school, made sure you are well, were at your side when you was sick, etc..

    Provided your parents treat you well, you should have a level of respect for them and if you truly love your parents then you will do that without even realising it. It's just part of being a nice person.
    they're treating you the way they're obliged to without being deemed unfit parents. It's neutral territory. That's the stuff they owe you. I agree with the bit in bold. But that's because they're going above the call of duty so to speak, and we should be thankful for that.
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    (Original post by infairverona)
    I don't think you should feel you 'owe' your parents just because they did the basic things a parent is meant to do and for me that includes not 'kicking you out' just because you've turned 18.
    Those are the basics in your opinion, but by law they don't have to do anything for you once you turn 18 and could leave you to fend for yourself. There is in fact a minority of parents who do exactly that.

    Know why the majority don't do it? Because they love their kids and care for their wellbeing, yet some of these kids are so entitled that they don't feel a similar responsibility towards their parents because they don't "owe" them. It's a selfish mentality to have.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Those are the basics in your opinion, but by law they don't have to do anything for you once you turn 18 and could leave you to fend for yourself. There is in fact a minority of parents who do exactly that.

    Know why the majority don't do it? Because they love their kids and care for their wellbeing, yet some of these kids are so entitled that they don't feel a similar responsibility towards their parents because they don't "owe" them. It's a selfish mentality to have.
    The majority don't do it because times have changed and children no longer leave and go straight into work at 18. Back in my parents' and grandparents' days people left at 16 or 18 to work, not to go to uni. If you go to uni as many more 18 year olds do now, obviously your parents may have to be willing to have you back in the summer if you can't afford rent. That's not because parents these days are better parents, it's because more young people go to uni now than they used to. I don't think it's at all because parents love you more. Plus it's more expensive and harder to move out now compared to when our parents were young. You're comparing apples and oranges.

    I think it's a bizarre mentality to have that because your parents raised you ok you somehow 'owe' them for doing what any normal parent would do. I would always help out my parents if they needed it despite them not being so willing to help me out when i've needed it before, but that's because they're my parents and I love them, not at all because I feel obligated to
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    (Original post by picklescamp)
    I'm not lol, I'm an egalitarian. Don't know what kind of oppressive household you were brought up in that's led you to think you're inferior to your parents just cos they ****ed without protection one time. As long as you're still in their care, they owe you more than you owe them.
    They don't owe you a single penny more
    You owe them everything
    The sooner you realise this the better otherwise it'll really hit u hard when u choose to be a mother
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    (Original post by stratagems)
    "So I just snapped and kicked my mother twice as hard as I could asking her how she likes it".
    The OP doesn't NEED to kick their mother to find this out.
    Imagine being punched - I've never been punched, but I can fathom that it's painful.

    We don't need to go through fleeing war, or dying of hunger, or a any other human affliction or condition to understand how terrible it is. That's my point of the power of words.

    That's the point of sympthy. Sympathy is enough - one doesn't need to battery assault one's parents for them to invoke empathy in such a situation.

    The mother bad a poor judgement call. So did the OP. By condoning the effect of the battery assault - which is a criminal offence - you are legitimising and justifying the act itself, which is bad.
    I'm not condoning the behaviour but if it's already been done and the effect is that the mother thinks twice before letting that kid take the dog again I don't think that's bad, when it's already done. The OP also didn't kick the mother to have this effect as you seem to be making out - OP kicked the Mum from anger seeing what had happened to the dog, so you're twisting what happened. The mother made a bad judgement call TWICE which resulted in harm to the dog twice. I think it's pretty understandable that OP would be very upset having already had this happen one time and the mother not listening AGAIN.

    Also there is no such crime as 'battery assault' before you start trying to pull the law on a law graduate.
 
 
 
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