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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well it hasn't really explained anything, it's just special pleading. Space and time were created with the Big Bang, there is no evidence that there is anything outside of that, it is a completely baseless claim that religionists have invented to try and conserve God.
    Again not my point whether there is evidence or not. Point was this explains why God doesn't need a creator.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    well in my view God is a superstition someone doesn't need to have created something for it to exist. Gravity exists as a force due to Physics or maybe gravity exists 'not as a force but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass/energy; and resulting in gravitational time dilation, where time lapses more slowly in lower (stronger) gravitational potential.' Just because something exists doesn't mean it has to have a creator. If you look at an oak tree you don't think God created it because you know it grew form an acorn, so why can't the universe/world have come to exist in the same way.
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    All you need to do is read the first few paragraphs. I do however find it odd that you ask for evidence and then refuse to read it when it's provided.
    Guys... I'm out :ahhhhh::bricks:
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    God is bae?
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    Big Bang Theory lie.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Again not my point whether there is evidence or not. Point was this explains why God doesn't need a creator.
    Not really because there is no evidence for that claim. Otherwise someone can say it proves the FSM or the giant pink rabbit that created the universe
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Well I believe they are. No religion out there mentions evolution, you may get some clever theologian to come along and say God created evolution I would say that is merely back tracking after they have been caught out. All religions say God created everything so the scientific fact of evolution directly contradicts that.
    That's wrong. Christians have been reading against that fundamentalist interpretation for many centuries before evolution.

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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    Prove that this is true then. I've asked this three times. Give concrete proof that God existed before the Big Bang and that he thereby created earth.

    I agree. How is that relevant to what I said?

    So, you asked for proof for what I said from the Bible and now say you won't bother with it. Sounds legit :rolleyes:

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    Proof? If you remember the topic of our discussion, you asked why doesn't God need a creator and I kindly responded.

    It's revelant because you say religion is false hence God is false because it's followed by the majority. My response was you don't need religion to believe in God. You made 3 posts on this, don't you remember?

    That last bit: I responded to your claim that the Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6000 years old and you respond with how it says the Earth is flat. Perfect sense mate.
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    Yes
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    (Original post by ModernGoodGuy)
    That's wrong. Christians have been reading against that fundamentalist interpretation for many centuries before evolution.

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    true but it is not fundamentalism when the bible says 'in the beginning God created everything Adam and Eve etc' it is a fundamental aspect of the bible that God created everything. Evolution directly contradicts the bible and all other religious books.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Not really because there is no evidence for that claim. Otherwise someone can say it proves the FSM or the giant pink rabbit that created the universe
    No evidence for which claim. And btw... if any of those did create the universe, then:

    FSM = A deity
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    See? Condition after condition. "If"s all over the place. "If that is true, and if that is true, it follows that that is true if we base it on that". Sorry for not being convinced after this array of fallacies.

    Are you being serious now? The vast majority of God-believers "belong" in a religion - to argue that this becomes irrelevant because of the random person believing in a deity but not being part of a religion is, frankly, nonsensical.
    That would imply that the Bible is wrong, so yeah - everything comes back to my original argument.

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    I don't see the array of fallacies? He simply gave propositions from which, he argues, entails more propositions.

    If you accept the proposition on causation in the universe, etc.


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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    true but it is not fundamentalism when the bible says 'in the beginning God created everything Adam and Eve etc' it is a fundamental aspect of the bible that God created everything. Evolution directly contradicts the bible and all other religious books.
    This changed after the Christian reformation in which they now accept evolution and that God guided it.
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    check this out http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    true but it is not fundamentalism when the bible says 'in the beginning God created everything Adam and Eve etc' it is a fundamental aspect of the bible that God created everything. Evolution directly contradicts the bible and all other religious books.
    Sorry, you haven't really changed your point? The point is what does Genesis mean and does it contradict with evolution. Saying Genesis says God literally created Adam and Eve through intervention etc. Goes back to your original post that Christians believe life was created perfect.

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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    This changed after the Christian reformation in which they now accept evolution and that God guided it.
    yes that's my point they gradually change the goalposts the bible was meant to be the word of god so by going against that they are contradicting themselves.
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    (Original post by ModernGoodGuy)
    I don't see the array of fallacies? He simply gave propositions from which, he argues, entails more propositions.

    If you accept the proposition on causation in the universe, etc.


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    Hmm, are you a new user or a dupe?
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    yes that's my point they gradually change the goalposts the bible was meant to be the word of god so by going against that they are contradicting themselves.
    Mmmm...
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Proof? If you remember the topic of our discussion, you asked why doesn't God need a creator and I kindly responded.

    It's revelant because you say religion is false hence God is false because it's followed by the majority. My response was you don't need religion to believe in God. You made 3 posts on this, don't you remember?

    That last bit: I responded to your claim that the Bible doesn't say the Earth is 6000 years old and you respond with how it says the Earth is flat. Perfect sense mate.
    You responded by saying that God is eternal and that he existed before the Big Bang. You did so in a factual manner. So, I ask: where is your proof, since you're so certain as to render what you said into factual truth? Of course, we both know you cannot prove anything, which yet again goes back to my original post. Making unsubstantiated claims is not proof, by the way.

    Erm, is this a deliberate strawman? I never claimed religion is false in itself - I claimed that the idea of a God is false (and hence the subject matter of religion). Religion itself cannot be false since it actually exists - it can be wrong.

    Okay, at least now you're explaining your debating skills. I literally said "read Genesis 5 and 11" - which gives proof to the point that, in Christianity, the Earth is 6000 years old. As an ADDED BONUS, I said, there are further nonsensical claims in the Bible. Capisci?

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    I really don't.
    Firstly, because I just don't think there is anyone up there controlling anything.
    Secondly, because I don't like the mere concept of religion. I find it to be almost like an excuse for people not to take responsabilities, a way of giving yourself a "fire escape".
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    No evidence for which claim. And btw... if any of those did create the universe, then:

    FSM = A deity
    That God exists outside of space and time.
 
 
 
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