Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Should european women dress modestly to accommodate other cultures? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should they dress modestly?
    Yes
    7.62%
    No
    92.38%

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    At the very least all bodily flesh should be covered. We'll let the veil/niqab go for the moment but not covering the torso is just asking to get battered imo.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    If you paid any attention to mainstream media, you would notice that every Christian terrorist attack is reported. However, as these are almost exclusively small-scale attacks on abortion providers, they are not as newsworthy as 150 people being machinegunned at a gig or cafe, or blowing up trains, or planes flown into buildings, or bombs in airports.

    Remember that the media are under no obligation to give equal weight to every event worldwide. The unique and catastrophic is far more newsworthy than the everyday and inconvenient.
    The fact that they have to reach back to the Klan, which really only existed formally and substantively in the 1870s and again in the early-mid 20th century, to try to elevate Christian terror to the same status as Islamic terror, speaks volumes about the emptiness of their arguments.

    Many of the incidents they cite are mass murder events by mentally ill individuals (tragic, but not comparable to mass murder planned and orchestrated for ideological/political/religious ends by an organisation that is self-sustaining) so not really terrorism at all. And it is genuinely unhinged that they are asserting that there is some hidden wave of Christian terrorism that we would all be outraged about if only there wasn't a media conspiracy to hide it.

    There is an objective, quantifiable reality to the pre-eminence of Islamic politico-religious violence in the contemporary period; it's simply cannot be disputed that Islamic terrorists have killed many, many people in numerous incidents in Western Europe and North America in the last 15 year, and that this wave of violence is unlike any other forms of political or communal violence in the West either in quantity or quality.

    I must say, there's an almost desperate and overly-defensive quality to their posts. If Islamist terrorism has nothing to do with them, why are they offended when the media covers it?
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Also, why are you focusing on the West? Christian "terrorism" happens probably daily in Eastern countries, usually against Muslims. The burning of mosques, attacks against Muslims etc. (which also happens very often in the West).
    Could you link to reports of these daily attacks please?

    But why is the West more important when it comes to terrorism?
    150 people killed by Islamists in Paris is more newsworthy in western Europe, than 150 people killed by Islamists in Raqqa.

    It's not right or wrong. It's just the way it is.
    In the same way that you will go to your father's funeral, probably your neighbour's funeral, possibly the funeral of someone in the next street, and not to someone in the next town.
    It does not mean that the life of the stranger in the next town is worth less than your father's, just that it means less to you.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Dunno how to answer this, I don't want girls wearing pretty much nothing at all but I don't want them HAVING to dress up for other cultures.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Goaded)
    Do you agree European women should change how they dress to accommodate other cultures?
    No, I don't. It just seemed to me that many people in this thread are using the 'don't victim blame' argument completely outside of its normal context. It's one thing saying women should not bow to pressure from minority cultures, it's another thing to say that they should be reckless with their own safety for no good reason.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Yeah, you just proved the point. The KKK was a Christian organisation. There was a large religious (Catholic vs Protestant) element to the Irish Troubles, which was pretty much a civil war. It wasn't that long ago that Christian terrorists were regularly bombing abortion clinics all over the place.

    Here's a list of some of the worst, most recent ones. http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-an...ight-white-men

    But yes, you just demonstrated the point perfectly. Christian terrorists do occur, they're just not reported to the same extent, and rarely actually associated with Christianity.
    Ah, I see what the problem is now. You are confusing "Christian terrorism", with "Terrorists who are Christians".

    They are not the same thing. A terrorist attack in support of white supremacist ideology is "white supremacist" terrorism, regardless of the faith, or lack of it, of the perpetrator.

    The murder of an unfaithful partner carried out by an accountant is not an "Accountancy murder", it is a "Crime of passion".

    And some of the terrorists in that list aren't even Christians! But they were all widely reported in the media.
    So I'm really not sure what your point is.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Think you need to do more research. They are/were a Protestant-led organisation, and base some of their beliefs on Protestant ideas, not to mention they were extremely anti-Catholic and targeted many Catholics and Jews. They also believed Jesus was the first "klansman", and would pray/sing hymns as they carried out cross burnings. And there are some who believe there is Biblical evidence for what they're doing.Funny how Christian terrorists aren't given as much attention/criticism by the media. Apparently the "terrorist" label only applies to Muslims nowadays.
    Let's be real.

    These kind of Christian freaks are a minority. Muslim terrorism is much more widespread.Not to mention the whole point that we are trying to make - this religion, as it is now, is poison. It repeatedly and continuously promotes violent thought, the Church does not (anymore). And there is no question that some parts of the religion are so widespread in Muslim culture, such as the treatment of women, which is also what we are against.

    It isn't juts the terrorism aspect...I haven't mentioned terrorism at all in my posts. I said Islam is dangerous, and it is, but not solely because of terrorism, but what it stands for, or rather what it stands against. It stands against every moral and cultural progress we have made in the West in the last two thousand years. Though of course much of that has occurred very recently, which is also probably why only very recently Islam has become a problem. We only now allow gay marriage and many are still against it, but they don't go about killing people, and it hasn't been illegal for some time before. 100 years ago Muslims and the West had similar views on this and all was jolly good.

    But now we are making progress, becoming more tolerant and open-minded, and Islam is not, it is stubborn and antiquated. And that is why we must oppose it, openly and strongly.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Copperknickers)
    It's one thing saying women should not bow to pressure from minority cultures, it's another thing to say that they should be reckless with their own safety for no good reason.
    So wearing a short skirt or tight dress is "being reckless with their safety"?
    Is wearing a bikini on a beach or by a pool "reckless"? Why are naturist camps not awash with rapes?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    They were established to promote white supremacy and to retain the major plantation owners influence during the reconstruction of the South after the Civil War. The majority of Southerners were, and are, Christians so they are likely do display Christian behaviour, but the KKK did not attempt to impose a Christian theocracy based on a literalist interpretation of the Bible. Their policies were based on ideas of racial purity and supremacy, and political power, not on the imposition of "god's will".

    If you paid any attention to mainstream media, you would notice that every Christian terrorist attack is reported. However, as these are almost exclusively small-scale attacks on abortion providers, they are not as newsworthy as 150 people being machinegunned at a gig or cafe, or blowing up trains, or planes flown into buildings, or bombs in airports.

    Remember that the media are under no obligation to give equal weight to every event worldwide. The unique and catastrophic is far more newsworthy than the everyday and inconvenient.
    How do you know every single one is reported? Answer is, you can't know.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    Ah, I see what the problem is now. You are confusing "Christian terrorism", with "Terrorists who are Christians".

    They are not the same thing. A terrorist attack in support of white supremacist ideology is "white supremacist" terrorism, regardless of the faith, or lack of it, of the perpetrator.

    The murder of an unfaithful partner carried out by an accountant is not an "Accountancy murder", it is a "Crime of passion".

    And some of the terrorists in that list aren't even Christians! But they were all widely reported in the media.
    So I'm really not sure what your point is.
    Lol I could say the same whenever someone talks about Muslim terrorists. They're terrorists who just happen to be Muslims
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Lol I could say the same whenever someone talks about Muslim terrorists. They're terrorists who just happen to be Muslims
    Until the moment they perpetrate an atrocity in the name of Islam. Kurdish separatists just happen to be Moslems; IS, Boka Haram and al-Qaeda members are Islamic terrorists.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    So wearing a short skirt or tight dress is "being reckless with their safety"?
    Is wearing a bikini on a beach or by a pool "reckless"? Why are naturist camps not awash with rapes?
    I never said any of those things were true. What I said was that encouraging anyone, male or female, to ignore reasonable safety precautions on the basis of a nonsensical principle is both irresponsible and irrelevant to the issue of this thread.

    This was in response to people claiming that wearing revealing clothing is more important than anything else, including the life of the person wearing it if and when those two things should ever conflict, for example in somewhere like Saudi Arabia where naturist camps would indeed be subject to extreme persecution.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    The fact that they have to reach back to the Klan, which really only existed formally and substantively in the 1870s and again in the early-mid 20th century, to try to elevate Christian terror to the same status as Islamic terror, speaks volumes about the emptiness of their arguments.
    (Original post by brainhuman)
    These kind of Christian freaks are a minority.
    The KKK was not a "Christian" organisation, it was political. Most of its members may have been Christians, but that doesn't make it "Christian" any more than The Playboy Club, or the American Marketing Association are "Christian organisations".
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    No
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    How do you know every single one is reported? Answer is, you can't know.
    More importantly, how do you know that they are not?
    You are claiming that things are happening that are not reported.
    I am claiming that there are things happening that are reported.

    I can support my claim with evidence, you cannot.
    Sounds familiar, doesn't it! :yep:
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    Lol I could say the same whenever someone talks about Muslim terrorists. They're terrorists who just happen to be Muslims
    I absolutely agree.
    If a Muslim perpetrates a terrorist attack and justifies it with white supremacist ideology, for example, then that would be white supremacist terrorism.

    It is only Islamist terrorism if Islamic ideology is used in the justification.

    I assumed that people took that for granted!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    The KKK was not a "Christian" organisation, it was political. Most of its members may have been Christians, but that doesn't make it "Christian" any more than The Playboy Club, or the American Marketing Association are "Christian organisations".
    The KKK certainly had some very strong protestant associations but in many ways that was more social and economic (Catholics were generally a minority and often associated with immigrants, Spaniards etc) than religious.

    In fact, the Klan was also associated with many spiritualist and esoteric beliefs that do not sit at all comfortably with mainstream Christianity (much like the Third Reich's paganism obsessions).

    But either way, I believe that's all fairly irrelevant. The Ku Klux Klan doesn't even really exist anymore. It existed in the immediate period after the American Civil War, it was suppressed, it returned in the early-mid 20th century, died out again. There are a few organisations around now which label themselves as Klans, but I'd hardly call them Christian. What binds their members together is their shared belief in white supremacy (and their attraction to Nazism often causes them to reject Christianity altogether in favour of some sort of syncretistic Germanic paganism). And so I don't see how any of it can be used to advance the argument that Christian terrorism is prevalent (and knowledge of it is being suppressed by a media conspiracy etc)
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    The KKK was not a "Christian" organisation, it was political. Most of its members may have been Christians, but that doesn't make it "Christian" any more than The Playboy Club, or the American Marketing Association are "Christian organisations".
    To be fair (and controversial), and to digress from the actual point: Christians like to give credit to the Church for "good things" (e.g. magna carta) that was mainly the result of political and other ideological influences (not theological), so in this respect, if the Church takes the credit for some things, it must also take the blame for others

    but yes white supremacy/nationalism =/= Christian supremacy/nationalist (not necessarily anyway)
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Copperknickers)
    I never said any of those things were true. What I said was that encouraging anyone, male or female, to ignore reasonable safety precautions on the basis of a nonsensical principle is both irresponsible and irrelevant to the issue of this thread.
    But this thread is about whether women in Europe should "dress modestly" to accomodate other cutures and reduce the risk of sexual assault, not "would it be sensible to walk the streets of Saudi Arabia half naked".
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chemting)
    To be fair (and controversial), and to digress from the actual point: Christians like to give credit to the Church for "good things" (e.g. magna carta) that was mainly the result of political and other ideological influences (not theological), so in this respect, if the Church takes the credit for some things, it must also take the blame for others
    I was thinking about this while watching MotD this weekend.
    Why don't the players who hold up their hands in thanks to god when they score, shake their fists at the sky when they miss?
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.