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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    No they wont, demand outstrips supply for many of the UK's universities, especially those form Asia, so yes, it is genius.
    demand doesn't outstrip supply for international students - universities fill up to the rafters with any they can get and pay hefty finders fees to agents who direct potential students their way (30% of the fees in many cases)
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    (Original post by JuliusDS92)
    And what about the possibility that being able to afford further education (and the destinations it provides access to) becomes the sole preserve of the children of the rich?
    You don't need to have rich parents to afford nothing up front and no repayments or interest until you start earning 21k.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Except it isn't because it only applies to graduates who start university after 1998.

    All of us who were educated before that, even people like me who sneaked through in 1997 and had "full" student loans (~£2k pa) and (of course) the majority of MPs and the government and the civil service, aren't paying anything like the repayments that graduates who have come after us are paying - when we benefited from subsidised higher education just as much if not more than the current cohort of grads.

    Basically students today are paying an inflated premium because the middle aged, middle classes were too scary to bring in a graduate tax for which would have made the whole system financially sustainable.
    The graduate tax proposals reviewed by the Browne report, including one endorsed by the NUS, were only to be levied on new graduates. It's not a sustainable method since it would take until 2040 to raise enough money to fund the system.
    *****ing about the end of the gravy train that others enjoyed isn't a compelling argument.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    You don't need to have rich parents to afford nothing up front and no repayments or interest until you start earning 21k.
    Unless you have to pay a deposit on accommodation, and find money up front to travel somewhere with what little you have (with no car), and then your parents have to pay extra in order to keep your spare room in social housing so they move into a smaller property and you have to find extra accommodation to cover all the holidays and can't go home for christmas anymore, or your family are reliant on your income to cover their rent and so you end up working more than recommended while studying to cover your own costs and theirs and you end up struggling to get by and your studies suffer etc etc.

    Tuition fees and expenses while AT university aren't the only financial barriers to study.

    It's true that there's no evidence SO FAR that the increase in fees has had an impact on participation...but there have been drops beyond what would be expected due to population changes in application rates for 2016 entry from English applicants...and it was always expected that students who had gone through their A levels or GCSEs with university as their planned destination were less likely to change course due to fees - the real impact will take longer to feed through in decisions on which GCSEs to take, whether to stay on for study post 16 or take up an apprenticeship or training position. Add in the massive cuts to funding of FE colleges that have come in with curriculum reform and it is very likely that applicant numbers and demand from english students will fall off a cliff over the next few years.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    What?
    Well for it to be a lifetime of debt they need to die before 51 (normally), i.e. before the loan is written off, and it's hardly insecure on the part of the student.
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    Leave EU, recover £11.5bn a year, single biggest cut to deficit in a long time, we can subsidise our universities again, bish bash bosh
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    The graduate tax proposals reviewed by the Browne report, including one endorsed by the NUS, were only to be levied on new graduates. It's not a sustainable method since it would take until 2040 to raise enough money to fund the system.
    *****ing about the end of the gravy train that others enjoyed isn't a compelling argument.
    Did you miss the fact that I was on the gravy train? Am I not allowed to point out the injustice that what I got for free is now charged for?

    A small graduate tax was politically unattractive but would have been fairer. Browne had his remit made very narrow to rule out any suggestion that previous beneficiaries should contribute.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Leave EU, recover £11.5bn a year, single biggest cut to deficit in a long time, we can subsidise our universities again, bish bash bosh
    :facepalm:

    You think any gains would go to students who don't vote :nope:
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    I thought i was unlucky being the first generation to be paying 9k a year... its getting ridiculous now, they say only 'top unis' will increase their price but its obvious pretty much all of them will,
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    (Original post by PQ)
    :facepalm:

    You think any gains would go to students who don't vote :nope:
    Ah yes, all the under-18 population in universities
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Ah yes, all the under-18 population in universities
    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...itain-Voted-in
    turnout for 18-24 year olds 44%
    turnout for 65+ year olds 76%

    Who do you think is the priority for any extra funds a government has?
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    (Original post by PQ)
    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchp...itain-Voted-in
    turnout for 18-24 year olds 44%
    turnout for 65+ year olds 76%

    Who do you think is the priority for any extra funds a government has?
    The issue here is the rest of the student population needs to get its **** together and vote. It's not the government's fault you're too lazy to vote.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    The issue here is the rest of the student population needs to get its **** together and vote. It's not the government's fault you're too lazy to vote.
    And it's not my fault that you're naive enough to
    a) bring the EU referendum up in a debate on student finance
    b) think that there would be any funds available in the short term following an out vote (this increase is scheduled for 2017 entry, the negotiations in the event of an out vote are likely to take 2 years before we're officially out and would get the windfall you're expecting)
    c) think that any government would prioritise spending on a demographic that don't vote (and when they do tend to vote for other parties)
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Unless you have to pay a deposit on accommodation, and find money up front to travel somewhere with what little you have (with no car), and then your parents have to pay extra in order to keep your spare room in social housing so they move into a smaller property and you have to find extra accommodation to cover all the holidays and can't go home for christmas anymore, or your family are reliant on your income to cover their rent and so you end up working more than recommended while studying to cover your own costs and theirs and you end up struggling to get by and your studies suffer etc etc.

    Tuition fees and expenses while AT university aren't the only financial barriers to study.

    It's true that there's no evidence SO FAR that the increase in fees has had an impact on participation...but there have been drops beyond what would be expected due to population changes in application rates for 2016 entry from English applicants...and it was always expected that students who had gone through their A levels or GCSEs with university as their planned destination were less likely to change course due to fees - the real impact will take longer to feed through in decisions on which GCSEs to take, whether to stay on for study post 16 or take up an apprenticeship or training position. Add in the massive cuts to funding of FE colleges that have come in with curriculum reform and it is very likely that applicant numbers and demand from english students will fall off a cliff over the next few years.
    Maintenance loans are more generous now than they have ever been while tuition fees aren't paid upfront.
    You can't argue that the current system would make going to university more of a struggle now. Free tuition wouldn't change anything you mentioned in your extreme scenario.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Did you miss the fact that I was on the gravy train? Am I not allowed to point out the injustice that what I got for free is now charged for?

    A small graduate tax was politically unattractive but would have been fairer. Browne had his remit made very narrow to rule out any suggestion that previous beneficiaries should contribute.
    You would be if it was an injustice. It isn't. I'm not on the gravy train and I couldn't care less. The government is subbing me 50k at generous terms to better myself, where exactly is the great injustice?

    A small graduate tax would have been fairer if you're only talking in terms of graduates, but the current system is fairer in terms of graduates vs school leavers.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    A small graduate tax would have been fairer if you're only talking in terms of graduates, but the current system is fairer in terms of graduates vs school leavers.
    Fairer? So that the people who make use of their degrees to get into highly paid fields pay ever more, whilst those who make less productive use of their degrees pay proportionally less? This seems rather perverse to me, even leaving aside those who achieve financial success without relying on their degrees.

    If I thought I had to pay an infinite sum for a finite service in this way I'd at least seriously consider getting out of the country. Many of our top graduates would.
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    (Original post by Jam3898)
    When is the rise? If it starts next session then my parents won't let me take a gap year. FML
    This news has come from a White Paper which means nothing has been decided. It's for discussion.

    But even if it came into force for 2017 the max fee increase is only in line with inflation, currently 0.3%. Let's just say, though, inflation increases to 1% then you would have an additional £90 on a £9000 fee. Hardly going to break the bank...

    And you don't pay it in cash up front - it's entirely covered by the SFE loan.

    It doesn't affect your parents, or your ability to take a gap year.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Fairer? So that the people who make use of their degrees to get into highly paid fields pay ever more, whilst those who make less productive use of their degrees pay proportionally less? This seems rather perverse to me, even leaving aside those who achieve financial success without relying on their degrees.

    If I thought I had to pay an infinite sum for a finite service in this way I'd at least seriously consider getting out of the country. Many of our top graduates would.
    I don't understand your argument. Those who earn the most paying the most back into the system is the bedrock of a progressive society.
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    (Original post by Rock Fan)
    What do we all think of this
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ed...-a7030671.html
    It was expected. Given the current state of affairs, fees will just increase over time.

    (Original post by Airmed)
    I think it is ridiculous, imo. Instead of upping the fees, why can't they bring back the caps on the amount of students universities can accept?
    You mean university students?

    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    1. what's wrong with wanting to get an education without having to pay for it?

    2. You know, some of us aren't so loaded that we could easily splash out on degrees.

    3. I have a friend who's absolutely desperate to go to university but she worries she can't because she might not be able to afford it.

    4. And what, you like the fact that the poorer people would be excluded from unis? Even if they have the sheer intelligence to be able to go to one?
    1. That's naive. Someone has to pay for it. Either you or the tax payer.
    2. Irrelevant. You are given loan. You don't pay upfront.
    3. Again, she doesn't seem to understand how it works. See point 2.
    4. Irrelevant. Poor people can still go to uni. See point 2.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    I don't understand your argument. Those who earn the most paying the most back into the system is the bedrock of a progressive society.
    My argument is perfectly clear: that it is perverse that I should pay more for the same service than someone who squandered it solely on the basis that I used it productively.

    Those who earn more already pay much more into the system. We don't particularly need to add to that with an unfair tax tied perversely to a specific service.
 
 
 
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