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    (Original post by popcornjpg)
    not weird for me personally, but, vegans are really ****ing annoying usually

    it feels like they're going to have a stroke if they dont mention to you they're a vegan at least once a day
    How many vegans do you know in real life? Yes there are some annoying vegans just like there are also annoying non-vegans and annoying British people. What you're doing is called stereotyping.
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    (Original post by xobeauty)
    Because it is expensive ,$ 15.00 for cherries?
    You're acting as if $15 cherries are a staple of the vegan diet.

    I actually found veganism way cheaper than the alternative. I lost a lot of weight, my skin cleared up, and beans and tofu cost a lot less than steak and chicken.
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    (Original post by Serpentine111)
    Not really.. what's the difference? Animals have thoughts/feelings/sense of pain etc. and the basic right to live; why should a human be able to take that away from them when they have alternative choices which don't involve cashing out on animals?
    There is a difference, since the beginnings of time people have killed for meat, it was a natural process to kill and eat. Racism has nothing natural about it, the oppression isn't the same. viddy9

    However, I've been vegetarian for 2 years, vegan for a little while(I found letting go of dairy extremely difficult, meat doesn't appeal to me though, not a fan of eating dead flesh).

    Recently however I tried meat again, it was awful, made me realise why I stopped. Plan on sticking to vegetarianism for life.

    But the reason a lot of vegans are idiots are because they go to extreme lengths to promote their message, they exploit a lot of things while doing so, like history. Black people are not like pigs, it's not the same. It was an extreme comparison and I disliked it, it's embarrassing that somebody would create that.
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    (Original post by MotorboatMyGoat)
    I disagree. They are both excreted during the menstrual cycle. Titties and udders are both mammary glands.

    How can you be rational with people like this
    I never said veganism was stupid,I said their ridiculous way of going about it makes them seem idiotic. It is so militant, and vegans wonder why people get put off veganism. It's like radical 3rd wave feminism, it starts to achieve the opposite affect.

    Thanks for being just as difficult as the vegans I'm taking about. "People like this" lol.
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    (Original post by HamzahPatel)

    Lol not really, I aspire to go into investment banking.
    good decision there
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    It is difficult I do think, because you have to find foods especially that are vegan, such as vegan desserts, which apparently are expensive.
    I can see why people think it's hard. I am actually planning on going vegetarian when I go to uni, might be hard but I am hoping I would stick to it. I doubt I will ever go vegan though, anything can happen I guess.
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    (Original post by loveleest)
    It is difficult I do think, because you have to find foods especially that are vegan, such as vegan desserts, which apparently are expensive.
    I can see why people think it's hard. I am actually planning on going vegetarian when I go to uni, might be hard but I am hoping I would stick to it. I doubt I will ever go vegan though, anything can happen I guess.
    Being vegetarian isn't that hard, I was surprised how easy it was tbh. So many food choices available, being vegan however, I found it ridiculously difficult, only lasted a couple of weeks. Dairy is so hard to let go...
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    There is a difference, since the beginnings of time people have killed for meat, it was a natural process to kill and eat. Racism had nothing natural about it, the oppression isn't the same. viddy9

    However, I've been vegetarian for 2 years, vegan for a little while(I found letting go of dairy extremely difficult, meat doesn't appeal to me though, not a fan of eating dead flesh).

    Recently however I tried meat again, it was awful, made me realise why I stopped. Plan on sticking to vegetarianism for life.

    But the reason a lot of vegans are idiots are because they go to extreme lengths to promote their message, they exploit a lot of things while doing so, like history. Black people are not like pigs, it's not the same. It was an extreme comparison and I disliked it, it's embarrassing that somebody would create that.
    But one could then go about arguing that racism/homophobia has been prevalent for many, many years and so are "natural" too. I'm not saying that either are worse but there is an obvious argument in that picture which I can't disagree with.

    Yes, I agree that it's pretty extreme. Sometimes I do see rather cringe-worthy comparisons but I guess most are intentionally provocative or else people would just ignore it.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    Being vegetarian isn't that hard, I was surprised how easy it was tbh. So many food choices available, being vegan however, I found it ridiculously difficult, only lasted a couple of weeks. Dairy is so hard to let go...
    I think it might be a little hard for me because I eat meat everyday:laugh: But yeah, hopefully it won't be too difficult. And being a vegan is just way too hard, doubt I'd ever be vegan.
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    (Original post by Serpentine111)
    But one could then go about arguing that racism/homophobia has been prevalent for many, many years and so are "natural" too. I'm not saying that either are worse but there is an obvious argument in that picture which I can't disagree with.

    Yes, I agree that it's pretty extreme. Sometimes I do see rather cringe-worthy comparisons but I guess most are intentionally provocative or else people would just ignore it.
    But it is an offensive comparison to make.What do people achieve with making comparisons as such :/
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    I never said veganism was stupid,I said their ridiculous way of going about it makes them seem idiotic. It is so militant, and vegans wonder why people get put off veganism. It's like radical 3rd wave feminism, it starts to achieve the opposite affect.

    Thanks for being just as difficult as the vegans I'm taking about. "People like this" lol.
    No you didn't you said "a lot of vegans are idiots", that is stereotyping. No vegans here are saying most meat eaters are idiots.

    How is saying "people like this", being difficult. No one insulted you, yet you insult vegans.

    Also, no vegan has said black people are like pigs, don't be so stupid. There's nothing ridiculous about comparing black slaves to livestock. People have just changed the human slaves to animal slaves.
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    (Original post by MotorboatMyGoat)
    No you didn't you said "a lot of vegans are idiots", that is stereotyping. No vegans here are saying most meat eaters are idiots.

    How is saying "people like this", being difficult. No one insulted you, yet you insult vegans.

    Also, no vegan has said black people are like pigs, don't be so stupid. There's nothing ridiculous about comparing black slaves to livestock. People have just changed the human slaves to animal slaves.
    Yes, I said a lot of vegans are idiots and then I gave an example.

    It is RIDICULOUS, black human slaves were nothing like livestock.
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    (Original post by Serpentine111)
    But one could then go about arguing that racism/homophobia has been prevalent for many, many years and so are "natural" too. I'm not saying that either are worse but there is an obvious argument in that picture which I can't disagree with.

    Yes, I agree that it's pretty extreme. Sometimes I do see rather cringe-worthy comparisons but I guess most are intentionally provocative or else people would just ignore it.
    I don't think that racism and homophobia can ever be "natural".

    Killing meat and eating it is something humans did without thought, no morals were attached to it, it's just seen as the cycle of life.

    Racism and homophobia are completely different.

    But yes, I'm glad we agree on that.

    (Original post by loveleest)
    But it is an offensive comparison to make.What do people achieve with making comparisons as such :/
    It is offensive, and extreme and completely unnecessary.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    There is a difference, since the beginnings of time people have killed for meat, it was a natural process to kill and eat. Racism has nothing natural about it, the oppression isn't the same. viddy9
    Thanks for the reply, but I find this argument very unconvincing. The fact that something is natural has no bearing on whether it is right, so the fact that killing for meat is natural doesn't make it somehow different from human oppression.

    And, while racism may not be strictly natural (as genetic differences between races are very small), protecting the in-group and competing against (and discriminating against) the out-group is, because it's "natural" to try to propagate your genes. That doesn't make discriminating against people who are genetically distant any more right. Discriminating against people who look different to you was the natural thing to do centuries ago, and for some people it is even today.

    I agree that these tactics may turn some people off, but that's a separate matter to whether the comparisons are valid or not.

    Racism, sexism, homophobia and so on have, in the past and even today, been defended because they are "natural". Those who have fought and who continue to fight against these forms of discrimination have always made the point that, whether they are natural or not, that has no bearing on whether they are right. Speciesism is just as discriminatory as racism, sexism and homophobia, and, without trivialising the plight of humans, the fact of the matter is that we've never had a situation in which tens of billions of humans were confined, transported and slaughtered in horrific conditions every single year.
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    No, they're not the same. It's also "natural" to propagate your genes, but there are plenty of ways of doing that that are completely unthical. I don't see what an A-Level psychology textbook has to do with any of this (an A-Level philosophy textbook would say quite clearly that equating what is natural with what we are supposed to do is fallacious).

    If you could quote the passage from your Psychology textbook, that would be good.

    It wasn't a specifically chosen study: it was a review of the evidence (i.e. all of the studies conducted on vegan lifestyles) by experts in the field.

    Why change it? Because it's unethical to inflict unnecessary suffering on other sentient beings. Again, do you believe that confining, transporting and slaughtering humans (say, human infants and severely intellectually disabled humans) is wrong, and if so why? Do you believe that inflicting unnecessary suffering on others is wrong? Do you believe that we should be reducing the amount of greenhouse gas emissions we emit?

    Basically, if you care about ethics and the environment, that's a reason to change it. If you believe that we should lower food prices in the developing world (which are artificially high because a lot of the grain grown in the developing world is shipped over to the West to feed the animals so that rich Westerners can eat their meat), that's a reason to change it. If you're a psychopath who doesn't think anything is right or wrong, you'll see no reason to change it.
    Still not following your point on the first one. Tigers naturally eat meat. Cows naturally eat plants. Humans naturally eat meat and plants. I have previously mentioned why my studies are relevant to this; a major unit for A2 Psychology is eating behaviour and food preferences. Every one of my 6 books states humans are omnivores and, to quote one, 'its high energy content... makes meat palatable and provides the feeling of satiety after consumption. This prompted humans to spend large amounts of time and effort hunting large animals as a food source'. Another states meat consumption allows humans to thrive in different environments. Why else would humans and primates eat meat if it wasn't beneficial to them?

    Science can be made to challenge/ try to prove anything. You're the one trying to challenge the status quo.

    So having a different view of life and a different opinion makes me a psychopath, does it? What if I do think killing another being to eat it is fine? The species is irrelevant. If cat or dog meat was seen as worth consuming (like some cultures do), I wouldn't have a problem with it, and I have a pet cat. I eat cow, chicken and pig because that's what I like to eat. If that makes me a psychopath by your definition, then fine (even though the concept of antisocial personality disorder or 'psychopathy' is far more complex than something like that- hence why it only occurs in a tiny percentage of the population).
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    Yes, I said a lot of vegans are idiots and then I gave an example.

    It is RIDICULOUS, black human slaves were nothing like livestock.
    Lol giving one example doesn't credit your opinion.

    How is it ridiculous. Apart from being different species, how on earth is it different?
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    Thanks for the reply, but I find this argument very unconvincing. The fact that something is natural has no bearing on whether it is right, so the fact that killing for meat is natural doesn't make it somehow different from human oppression.

    And, while racism may not be strictly natural (as genetic differences between races are very small), protecting the in-group and competing against (and discriminating against) the out-group is, because it's "natural" to try to propagate your genes. That doesn't make discriminating against people who are genetically distant any more right. Discriminating against people who look different to you was the natural thing to do centuries ago, and for some people it is even today.

    I agree that these tactics may turn some people off, but that's a separate matter to whether the comparisons are valid or not.

    Racism, sexism, homophobia and so on have, in the past and even today, been defended because they are "natural". Those who have fought and who continue to fight against these forms of discrimination have always made the point that, whether they are natural or not, that has no bearing on whether they are right. Speciesism is just as discriminatory as racism, sexism and homophobia, and, without trivialising the plight of humans, the fact of the matter is that we've never had a situation in which tens of billions of humans were confined, transported and slaughtered in horrific conditions every single year.
    No, racism, sexism and homophobia are all human constructs. Killing and eating meat however is not, it has been seen as "the cycle of life" or the "food chain". Animals eat other animals, that is seen as "natural". I've never seen a homophobic lion, or a sexist bird. They are human constructs, you cannot compare the two.
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    (Original post by MotorboatMyGoat)
    Lol giving one example doesn't credit your opinion.

    How is it ridiculous. Apart from being different species, how on earth is it different?
    You can read my above post^


    Oh I have tons of examples of idiotic vegans, in fact why don't i just direct you to the vegan side of youtube.
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    (Original post by BasingstokeBoy)
    Still not following your point on the first one. Tigers naturally eat meat. Cows naturally eat plants. Humans naturally eat meat and plants. I have previously mentioned why my studies are relevant to this; a major unit for A2 Psychology is eating behaviour and food preferences. Every one of my 6 books states humans are omnivores and, to quote one, 'its high energy content... makes meat palatable and provides the feeling of satiety after consumption. This prompted humans to spend large amounts of time and effort hunting large animals as a food source'. Another states meat consumption allows humans to thrive in different environments. Why else would humans and primates eat meat if it wasn't beneficial to them?
    Nothing in there says that humans are "supposed" to eat meat today though. Nothing at all.

    (Original post by BasingstokeBoy)
    Science can be made to challenge/ try to prove anything. You're the one trying to challenge the status quo.
    Science can be misrepresented, but misrepresentations of science remain wrong. I'm not misrepresenting the science, because I'm quoting from a review conducted by experts looking at the totality of the scientific evidence; that is, I'm not cherry-picking studies.

    I've met my burden of evidence, as a result: if you want to challenge the view that you can be just as healthy on a vegan diet, then please explain which nutrients one cannot get on a vegan diet, like the person who wrote the nonsense before (but at least he/she tried).

    (Original post by BasingstokeBoy)
    So having a different view of life and a different opinion makes me a psychopath, does it?
    No, my point was that psychopaths won't care about ethics or the environment. There are plenty of other reasons why people would hold ethical views but choose not to act on them, as you may be doing.

    (Original post by BasingstokeBoy)
    What if I do think killing another being to eat it is fine? The species is irrelevant.
    Okay, so you have no ethical objection to killing humans to eat them. I am glad we have established that. In which case, there's really nothing more I can say, aside from the fact that we should recognise that our interests matter no less than the interests of any other sentient being. If we wouldn't like unnecessary suffering to be inflicted on us, we shouldn't be inflicting it on others.
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    (Original post by Justmoll28)
    that veganism is 'hard' or 'too expensive' or 'too time consuming'

    it baffles me..i want to know why people think this?
    I want tae say something, but I'll get banned, so I'm not saying anything
 
 
 
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