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    Probably the same reason why he has allowed every single person who has ever existed to date to die by some way or another.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    I never said I think you think anything. I simply asked you the 1st time why you're even discussing Christianity? Since you supposedly know the murderer is Islamic. Just another confused atheist strolling in to the wrong place finding an opportunity to insult Christianity. Are you on drugs?
    No, you implied as much by trying to argue as to why the mass murderer was Islamic when I never even brought him up. This thread is about the shootings in Orlando, sure, but it's question is 'Why didn't God intervene?' so I don't see why you're so butt hurt about people discussing Christianity. As to my discussion, I said that because he seemed to be referring to Christianity. Seriously though, are you on drugs? You might need some medication for your mental health issues.
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    (Original post by davidguettafan)
    If he exists, why did he allow the American mass shooting to happen?


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If he's not stopped the Holocaust, he's not going to be sparing the lives of 50 people in one shooting.

    #FreeWill


    While the brutally honest and truthful answer is that “He’s God and He knows what He’s doing”, there are a few specific points that can help us to better understand these tragedies. And, quite frankly, understanding them can often make the difference between moving closer to the Lord or turning our backs on Him.

    Free Will – God loves us so much that He gives us the gift of free will. This means that while we are free to do good, we also have the ability to do evil. The person or persons who caused the explosions in Boston chose to commit an evil act. In no way did God cause this to happen. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):

    Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it. (CCC 311)

    Greater Good – In his Letter To The Romans, St. Paul states that “We know that IN EVERYTHING God works for good with those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.” (Romans 8:28, emphasis mine) Not just the good things, but the bad things too. How is it possible that good can result from the mutilation and murder of innocent people? While I don’t claim to understand all of God’s reasons, there are a few obvious ones that stand out. When tragedy occurs, we get to see people helping one another. Every time a tragedy takes place, there are numerous stories of heroism and genuine love of neighbor that emerge. We also see an increase in prayer. Many people who aren’t used to praying suddenly “hit their knees”. We’re also reminded of our mortality and how we’re not really in control of our own destiny.

    In time we can discover that God in his almighty providence can bring a good from the consequences of an evil, even a moral evil, caused by his creatures: “It was not you”, said Joseph to his brothers, “who sent me here, but God. . . You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive.” From the greatest moral evil ever committed – the rejection and murder of God’s only Son, caused by the sins of all men – God, by his grace that “abounded all the more”,brought the greatest of goods: the glorification of Christ and our redemption. But for all that, evil never becomes a good. (CCC 312)

    Trust – When tragic events occur, we are given an opportunity to trust God. It is during the dark times that we must truly “walk by faith and not by sight” (2 Corinthians 5:7). When skies are blue, it’s a lot easier for us to trust than during storms. However, storms often give us the best chance to grow closer to the Lord.

    An Invitation – When bad things happen, either in our own life or in the lives of others, we are invited to assist God in bringing good out of evil. We can do this by praying. Although the Lord doesn’t need our help, He allows us to help Him through the act of prayer.

    Since Abraham, intercession – asking on behalf of another has been characteristic of a heart attuned to God’s mercy. In the age of the Church, Christian intercession participates in Christ’s, as an expression of the communion of saints. In intercession, he who prays looks “not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others,” even to the point of praying for those who do him harm. (CCC 2635)

    Heaven – As much as we’d like it to be, this world is not perfect. Pain and suffering do exist. Accepting this will cause us to remain calm when these events occur. In addition, it will increase our desire for heaven, where there is NO PAIN AND SUFFERING!

    We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ.

    Although it’s not easy, it’s crucial for us to keep our eye on the Lord when “bad things” happen. Blaming Him for the suffering, although understandable, is neither accurate or wise. If we truly believe that He loves us, we should strive to see His goodness in everything. Doing so will bring us great peace, even in times of turmoil.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    No, you implied as much by trying to argue as to why the mass murderer was Islamic when I never even brought him up. This thread is about the shootings in Orlando, sure, but it's question is 'Why didn't God intervene?' so I don't see why you're so butt hurt about people discussing Christianity. As to my discussion, I said that because he seemed to be referring to Christianity. Seriously though, are you on drugs? You might need some medication for your mental health issues.
    No seriously though are you on drugs? The only thing you've got to say? Not a good sign. Seems I'm speaking to a moron who has the cheek to be arrogant. Like I said, opportunistic Atheist who isn't even aware of the topic.



    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Probably the same reason why he has allowed every single person who has ever existed to date to die by some way or another.
    Would you seriously want to live forever though?
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    No seriously though are you on drugs? The only thing you've got to say? Not a good sign. Seems I'm speaking to a moron who has the cheek to be arrogant. Like I said, opportunistic Atheist who isn't even aware of the topic.





    Would you seriously want to live forever though?
    'No seriously though are you on drugs? The only thing you've got to say? Not a good sign. Seems I'm speaking to a moron who has the cheek to be arrogant. Like I said, self-righteous, emotionally unstable Christian who isn't even aware of the topic.'

    Don't really need to say anything else, you've provided a perfect response to your own stupidity.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    'No seriously though are you on drugs? The only thing you've got to say? Not a good sign. Seems I'm speaking to a moron who has the cheek to be arrogant. Like I said, self-righteous, emotionally unstable Christian who isn't even aware of the topic.'

    Don't really need to say anything else, you've provided a perfect response to your own stupidity.


    (Hold on, when I've nothing better to do than argue with a child in an adult's body who's trolling me to look big, I'll respond to you.)
    (Original post by Aurora_Boreal1s)
    You got me there, I haven't read the whole Bible or every Holy Book, but I have heard enough to know that they were written by men, and maybe these men are revered but they are still men, filling the Bible or other Holy Books with their personal bias, and fine, I am being harsh and unfair, to those who believe, as many of my friends do, they have certainly lost none of my respect, and I admire you for having your own faith. I may not understand it, but I am not against it, I became rather angry in the heat of the moment, because a terrible thing which I feel very strongly about has just happened. Religion itself is not a bad thing but I think that many religious people like to forget that they believe in the same God and so religion divides people, more than it should. I also believe that Religion is also used to justify many terrible things and so i think it often ironically prevents the main consequence of having free will which is the ability to take responsibility for one's own actions.

    Lastly, I feel like the real problem is that the shooter in this case was a mentally ill and very angry gay man who could not come to terms with himself and so took his anger out on others.
    Read DCMcgovern's post on this very page, it's got bold and italic font in it. :yes:

    But specifically read the non bold and italic bits to see what he's saying.

    But to answer you myself, they did not write anything from bias. They are prophets, they received messages from God. And translated. And these messages have been translated in many languages across the world for many many ages. Religion is not flawed, it's a concept that flawed people practice or claim to practice. The mere purpose of God is not to be a mediator when people choose to sin.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    (Hold on, when I've nothing better to do than argue with a child in an adult's body who's trolling me to look big, I'll respond to you.)

    Read DCMcgovern's post on this very page, it's got bold and italic font in it. :yes:

    But specifically read the non bold and italic bits to see what he's saying.

    But to answer you myself, they did not write anything from bias. They are prophets, they received messages from God. And translated. And these messages have been translated in many languages across the world for many many ages. Religion is not flawed, it's a concept that flawed people practice or claim to practice. The mere purpose of God is not to be a mediator when people choose to sin.
    You think I'm trolling you, when you're the f*cking idiot who decided to argue with me for what reason exactly? Because I'm talking about Christianity and it hurts your feelings? Get a grip and stop being so entitled.
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    (Original post by Jayce.x)
    Not just talking about those 50 people. Kids die. Rape? Kids don't deserve it. God could stop it but he CHOOSES not to. And God knows what's going to happen. All of that is already decided for us. We don't actually choose anything. In Islam, your destiny/path is already decided. God knows what you're going to become. And he doesn't do anything about it. "Bad people" are also just damaged. Something happened to them that made them that way and if God had stopped that thing from happening maybe,those 50 people would be alive right now. The abused becomes the abuser. You can't thank God and praise him for all the good but say that it's our fault when something bad happens.
    *you deleted it but I got it before you did
    .

    When they're horrible people. Many people have been abused and don't abuse...
    Are you seriously making an excuse for sinners like rapists?
    The reason people thank God for "all the glory" is because He gave people life. So you thank Him for even making it possible for good things to happen, which wouldn't happen obviously if you're dead. You can't blame someone else for what you did wrong. As for people who get mad at God for like being poor, being "ugly," being "abused," being "diseased" unfortunately the person has to see these things as tests of strength and fate and reason for other people to support each other in these bad times.
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    Not just talking about those 50 people. Kids die. Rape? Kids don't deserve it. God could stop it but he CHOOSES not to. And God knows what's going to happen. All of that is already decided for us. We don't actually choose anything. In Islam, your destiny/path is already decided. God knows what you're going to become. And he doesn't do anything about it. "Bad people" are also just damaged. Something happened to them that made them that way and if God had stopped that thing from happening maybe,those 50 people would be alive right now. The abused becomes the abuser. You can't thank God and praise him for all the good but say that it's our fault when something bad happens.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    You think I'm trolling you, when you're the f*cking idiot who decided to argue with me for what reason exactly? Because I'm talking about Christianity and it hurts your feelings? Get a grip and stop being so entitled.
    I never argued with you. I simply asked why is a totally irrelevant religion being discussed. Don't get your panties in a twist feeling all wound up because you were quoted lol The question still remains unanswered though why you're discussing it. People do a lot of deflecting to save face when they've come to look moronic.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    (Hold on, when I've nothing better to do than argue with a child in an adult's body who's trolling me to look big, I'll respond to you.)

    Read DCMcgovern's post on this very page, it's got bold and italic font in it. :yes:

    But specifically read the non bold and italic bits to see what he's saying.

    But to answer you myself, they did not write anything from bias. They are prophets, they received messages from God. And translated. And these messages have been translated in many languages across the world for many many ages. Religion is not flawed, it's a concept that flawed people practice or claim to practice. The mere purpose of God is not to be a mediator when people choose to sin.
    But how can you believe that even prophets have no bias? If you have ever played a game of chinese whispers you know that things always get lost in translation. Also if God gave us free will, then why would we have rules imposed on our behaviour? And I still don't understand how God can do nothing to help those that don't deserve the bad things that are happening to them. I know that no-one is really 100% innocent but I feel like life is extraordinarily cruel sometimes. I think it is better to believe that we shape our own destinies without an omnipresent being watching our every move. But some people don't, so to each their own.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    @jayce.x
    Not just talking about those 50 people. Kids die. Rape? Kids don't deserve it. God could stop it but he CHOOSES not to. And God knows what's going to happen. All of that is already decided for us. We don't actually choose anything. In Islam, your destiny/path is already decided. God knows what you're going to become. And he doesn't do anything about it. "Bad people" are also just damaged. Something happened to them that made them that way and if God had stopped that thing from happening maybe,those 50 people would be alive right now. The abused becomes the abuser. You can't thank God and praise him for all the good but say that it's our fault when something bad happens.

    When they're horrible people. Many people have been abused and don't abuse...
    Are you seriously making an excuse for sinners like rapists?
    The reason people thank God for "all the glory" is because He gave people life. So you thank Him for even making it possible for good things to happen, which wouldn't happen obviously if you're dead. You can't blame someone else for what you did wrong. As for people who get mad at God for like being poor, being "ugly," being "abused," being "diseased" unfortunately the person has to see these things as tests of strength and fate and reason for other people to support each other in these bad times.
    God could have stopped people from becoming rapists and terrorists but he didn't. God is the reason they're not "good". I'm not defending them. I'm just saying that when you can control something and you choose not to, it is your fault.
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    The Westbro Baptist church must be cheering right now, this is the only time something matched with their predictions!
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    In Jeremiah God says: "For I know the plans I have for you, Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you a hope and a future."

    Can you see the future? God controls each one of our lives and he knows what will happen and to prevent them from experiencing something far tragic than what happened, he took their lives.
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    (Original post by Aurora_Boreal1s)
    But how can you believe that even prophets have no bias? If you have ever played a game of chinese whispers you know that things always get lost in translation. Also if God gave us free will, then why would we have rules imposed on our behaviour? And I still don't understand how God can do nothing to help those that don't deserve the bad things that are happening to them. I know that no-one is really 100% innocent but I feel like life is extraordinarily cruel sometimes. I think it is better to believe that we shape our own destinies without an omnipresent being watching our every move. But some people don't, so to each their own.
    This isn't a game of...chinese whispers. This is getting a message directly from God Himself. And writing it.

    First of all, religion is not THE explanation of life and actions or whatever existential concerns [you] might have. It is AN explanation, among many others.
    Let's look at someone who kills their kids:
    there are several different explanations:

    religion says-they're evil, a spawn of Satan
    science says-psychologically the person is disturbed

    And philosophers, animists, atheists, etc will have different opinions to science and religion.
    He gave us free will with consequences. They're not imposed rules. Your boss gives you rules, regulations, your folks. The sinner is someone who isn't aware of these rules and thus sins, because they chose not to make themselves aware of these rules and the consequences of going against them. Or the sinner is someone who is aware and deliberately went against them anyway. So what happens when you break rules? You get sacked, you get grounded, even friends have values and if you betray those, they don't wanna be your friend. If you think God's "rules" are "imposed" then you must do a lot of bad things and don't understand the mere purpose of order and the result of destruction when you go against. God is the supervisor not the mediator, and we are the actors, we take the action to do right or wrong.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    I never argued with you. I simply asked why is a totally irrelevant religion being discussed. Don't get your panties in a twist feeling all wound up because you were quoted lol The question still remains unanswered though why you're discussing it. People do a lot of deflecting to save face when they've come to look moronic.
    "The mass murderer is Islamic bro! Y'all ain't read so you're having a go at the wrong ass religion! lmao. His name is Omar Mateen from Afghanistan! He hailed to ISIL and killed them as a martyr!"

    As if this isn't evident enough on it's own, this is what I'm referring to when I say you were attempting to argue with me. Talk about deflecting, you've been deflecting the entire time by making a fuss as to why people are talking about the Christian God. It's obvious why, numbnuts.

    I'm wound up because you're a complete tool who doesn't seem to understand plain English. And I did answer it, when you first brought it up, it's because the guy I replied to initiated it with someone else and I chimed in, my point was, maybe he's discussing it because he himself is Christian.
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    What a stupid question. Why does God let anyone get murdered? Why didn't give God give us a perfect world? It's all part of humanity. For all we know God may want us to be questioning his existence.
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    (Original post by Jayce.x)
    God could have stopped people from becoming rapists and terrorists but he didn't. God is the reason they're not "good". I'm not defending them. I'm just saying that when you can control something and you choose not to, it is your fault.
    What do you mean "could have stopped?" God isn't a genie waiting to pop out when **** goes wrong. Everyone has their judgement day. Those people who are murdered or killed before their time could be angels. See how we're discussing this, see how everyone's getting upset on and off here about this? See how this Omar Mateen guy is being demonised as he should be? See how it's albeit making people question or defend religion, question God? Also which God are you on about? The Islamic one, the Christian one, the Judeo one...? I'm sure the Christian God and the Muslim god etc have different ideas how to run the place, so I'm sure where one might see wrong the other may or may not. It's your CHOICE which you believe is running the place, and you now have "rules" to follow. You break them>>consequence. That's it.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Erm. People just sound ridiculous now.

    The Islamic god is not the Christian god, is not the Jewish God etc etc
    There's a totally different standard of principles and thus consequences from each deity. Granted there might be some shared or similar principles across the religious spectrum at least between the Abrahamic trinity of religions being Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. So the punishment for gays in Islam might not completely match the others. The perpetrator here is Islamic. You have to apply the Islamic punishment for being gay. Please don't say "God" so vaguely and broadly because now you're tying in other non related monotheistic religions.
    All Abrahamic religions believe the same God.
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    (Original post by pecora)
    The Westbro Baptist church must be cheering right now, this is the only time something matched with their predictions!
    See. Why are you mentioning Baptism? The murderer is Islamic and he did this as a martyr after joining ISIL. So if anything the MOSQUES are cheering. REAL Baptists if you even know any probably aren't happy that children of God have been killed out of hatred, especially when the Bible SAYS hate not the sinner.
 
 
 
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