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    (Original post by cBay)
    The Government: "We've got no time to write legislation because of exams." *spends all night fussing over the size of the shadow cabinet*
    In all fairness, it's just the Tories. I don't mind the size of the shadow cabinet. It's not how big it is, it's how you use it.

    Unfortunately, Labour haven't used it particularly well either


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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    In all fairness, it's just the Tories. I don't mind the size of the shadow cabinet. It's not how big it is, it's how you use it.

    Unfortunately, Labour haven't used it particularly well either

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    Give us more to oppose. If my opposite number puts forward an SOI I'll be happy to to argue against it.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    Give us more to oppose. If my opposite number puts forward an SOI I'll be happy to to argue against it.
    Didn't realise shadow cabinet roles are limited to SoIs

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Didn't realise shadow cabinet roles are limited to SoIs

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    as if there's been any bills for them to debate
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Didn't realise shadow cabinet roles are limited to SoIs

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    SOIs are the means by which a department conducts all of its non-legislative policy. So criticising your SOIs is largely the work of the shadow minister. A departmentally relevant bill would work too.

    So go on, do something.
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    (Original post by cBay)
    as if there's been any bills for them to debate
    There have been plenty of bills to debate, or am I imagining the two and a bit pages of items?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There have been plenty of bills to debate, or am I imagining the two and a bit pages of items?

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    two and a half pages of Socialist, Labour, Green and Nigel items, yea.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    There have been plenty of bills to debate, or am I imagining the two and a bit pages of items?

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    It's so tempting to dig out like 500 posts of yours that would make you look so damn hypocritical.

    Are you honestly criticising the Shadow Cabinet for not debating enough non-government items? As opposed to, you know, pushing a legislative agenda?


    I don't support the MoNC btw - I just find your defence hilarious.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    It's so tempting to dig out like 500 posts of yours that would make you look so damn hypocritical.

    Are you honestly criticising the Shadow Cabinet for not debating enough non-government items? As opposed to, you know, pushing a legislative agenda?


    I don't support the MoNC btw - I just find your defence hilarious.
    According to your own membership though, or was it Aph, I can't really tell the fruitcakes apart half the time, you have no need to push a legislative agenda because you're not in government. I would also recommend screwing heads on before determining the legislative agenda.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    According to your own membership though, or was it Aph, I can't really tell the fruitcakes apart half the time, you have no need to push a legislative agenda because you're not in government. I would also recommend screwing heads on before determining the legislative agenda.

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    Regardless of those fruity comments you can't start attacking shadow cabinet ministers for not doing their jobs - our jobs is to challenge and scrutinise the actions of the actual cabinet ministers. There have to be some actions to scrutinise.
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    I have a statement from the PM:

    Statement from the Prime Minister addressing the MoNC

    I would like to begin by acknowledging some of the issues of the current government, especially since I remember how irritating it was when the previous government members refused to accept even partial responsibility for their poor performance over a longer period of time (you can revisit the situation here).

    I admit and regret that our output hasn't been brilliant. Indeed, two government bills in 47 days is a disappointing score and something that needs to change, especially since our election manifestos and the coalition agreement are full of good policies. The coalition agreement also requires every Secretary of State to produce a Statement of Intent in the first 60 days and as I said, the mythical budget should be ready in the first 90 days.

    Unfortunately, we've been faced with the exam period and although some members of the government have had time to debate and vote, they seem to be too busy to write bills—myself included—due to various exams, presentations, theses, and other academic and professional obligations.

    I personally assume responsibility for letting a Statement of Intent sit in the government forum for about two weeks, having too little time to research a complex topic in order to provide comments on an important policy which could otherwise have been implemented by now, and of course not leading by example since my bill output sits at zero despite plans to produce a couple of items. For this, I apologise and although it may seem like a cheap excuse, I haven't been this busy IRL in two years. The only reason I keep coming online to debate others' bills is that I realise being the PM is a huge commitment.

    As for other members, I've been trying to boost activity in a number of ways but so far to no considerable avail, which reaffirms my belief that people are not lazy, but genuinely busy, and as those of you in leadership positions may know, it is extremely difficult to persuade people to put the MHoC above their RL commitments. I'm sure you also realise that these periods tend to come in cycles and that momentary decrease in production may change rapidly, which I believe should happen soon, due to this MoNC which we all take very seriously.

    Nevertheless, I do not believe that these issues are a sufficient reason for an MoNC and would like to ask the truly honourable members to consider the circumstances and give us a chance to make amends. The government voting record is very high and most of us take active part in debates whenever we can and the topic is at least marginally interesting.




    Now let's address all the ridiculous stuff.

    The motion was proposed by Quamquam123 and seconded by DMcGovern, Andy98, cranbrook_aspie, DanE1998, Kay_Winters, Mactotaur. Most of them said very little in response to the previous MoNC but I've been able to recover this defensive statement by cranbrook_aspie:

    “This is a model parliament. Emphasis on model. I'm sorry but most people have other commitments and don't take it too seriously. Most of the time, you're not going to get high-quality, well-researched legislation, and most of the time, you're not going to get a Cabinet every single member of which has the time to spend a lot of time debating. It's just not going to happen. People have lives. And besides, we all know this has only been proposed because Life_peer is butthurt that he's not Prime Minister.”

    This makes him an utter hypocrite and therefore I consider everything he says in support of the current MoNC complete garbage. The rest of them, however, use similar arguments, so perhaps hearing this from one of their own and going back in time a couple of months ago might clear up their memories.

    I would also like to quote a Labourite non-seconder That Bearded Man whom I consider reasonable enough to transcend partisanship and opportunities for power grab, again to remind them the general idea using the words of one of their own: „ I find it pretty concerning that members talk about skipping RL plans to go on this. […] I don't back VONCs unless there is a genuine issue with leadership or parties have become inactive. A simple power grab. We should be saving VONCs for rare occasions.“

    Moving on, the proposer and his seconders complain about the effort that is going into the budget. It is a moot point since the time-frame has been announced and these very people refused to speak about theirs until about… four months into the term?

    Next, Statements of Intent are perhaps even more time-consuming than bills, since they need to present the bigger picture including future legislation plans. We have three of them ready.

    As for the crisis, it was an utter joke drafted by a known Irish nationalist slash socialist whose bias is clear as day. Our primary response was serious, but the subsequent turn of events was highly improbable, so we decided to focus on more important things. I have realised that the CC system isn't fair and needs to be amended. Even in the MoNC itself, the proposers use biased fabulation to smear the government.

    Ad frequent changes to the Cabinet, I consider it better than letting completely inactive people cling to those seats and rot there, *wink-wink*. It's funny that the main proposer has just stepped down as leader of the Labour party after what, five weeks? This alone should make him at least a little more sympathetic towards people who e.g. had to step down due to likely similar RL issues…

    Are you really going to lecturing us about infighting? The recent leader and current deputy of the party that couldn't even get their own members to support their party bill?! :laugh: JD and Limie may like to bicker but they are also very productive. People with special needs such as yourselves, dear proposer and his seconders, should again show a bit more understanding. At least they aren't running off to join other parties, *wink-wink*.

    Total lack of coordination is what I call the main proposer's leadership over the Labour party so let's not lower ourselves to hypocritical insults. You have to change MPs like socks in order to keep your seats (seven Labour and Socialist seats have already been occupied by three to four people in just 48 days, and the Greens had been using a long-term Liberal proxy until she was replaced by a long-term Socialist proxy), so let's also not lecture us on management and responsibility because once you don't have the active numbers, you have practically no options but to wait it out.

    Again, Labour budget took about four months—we've had 48 days and a commitment of 90 days. There is no failure on that front and your use of overly expressive words is pathetic.

    The country, i.e. the debating club, thank you very much. When you were presented with the same arguments, you refused them. In fact, most of you didn't even show up. Now, your seconder DanE1998 posts about five times every week and Mactotaur isn't much better, so perhaps start with recruiting active seconders next time.

    Okay, enough of this ********, back to work.

    Thank you for your time and again apologies to the reasonable ones! I'll do everything in my power to make the government more productive and if you throw some reasonable crises with fairly generated responses our way, we'll tackle them in all seriousness.
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    Life_peer, I take it that you also consider everything many Tories are saying in defence of your government as complete garbage, given that when you VoNCed us many of you were of the firm opinion that if you had rl commitments that interfered with your ability to contribute to/write legislation for the MHoC then you should resign.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Life_peer, I take it that you also consider everything many Tories are saying in defence of your government as complete garbage, given that when you VoNCed us many of you were of the firm opinion that if you had rl commitments that interfered with your ability to contribute to/write legislation for the MHoC then you should resign.
    It's a matter of a huge hypocrite lecturing small hypocrites.
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    FFS if you want to rep the statement, rep me, not Fez! :awesome:
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    It's a matter of a huge hypocrite lecturing small hypocrites.
    Lol, so you even admit that you guys are being hypocritical. Besides, the circumstances were different. We physically didn't have more than one or two who had time during that particular period to be that active. You guys obviously do. We had also had a higher legislative output rate, all things considered, over our time before the VoNC in us than you have so far.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    I have a statement from the PM:

    Statement from the Prime Minister addressing the MoNC

    I would like to begin by acknowledging some of the issues of the current government, especially since I remember how irritating it was when the previous government members refused to accept even partial responsibility for their poor performance over a longer period of time (you can revisit the situation here).

    I admit and regret that our output hasn't been brilliant. Indeed, two government bills in 47 days is a disappointing score and something that needs to change, especially since our election manifestos and the coalition agreement are full of good policies. The coalition agreement also requires every Secretary of State to produce a Statement of Intent in the first 60 days and as I said, the mythical budget should be ready in the first 90 days.

    Unfortunately, we've been faced with the exam period and although some members of the government have had time to debate and vote, they seem to be too busy to write bills—myself included—due to various exams, presentations, theses, and other academic and professional obligations.

    I personally assume responsibility for letting a Statement of Intent sit in the government forum for about two weeks, having too little time to research a complex topic in order to provide comments on an important policy which could otherwise have been implemented by now, and of course not leading by example since my bill output sits at zero despite plans to produce a couple of items. For this, I apologise and although it may seem like a cheap excuse, I haven't been this busy IRL in two years. The only reason I keep coming online to debate others' bills is that I realise being the PM is a huge commitment.

    As for other members, I've been trying to boost activity in a number of ways but so far to no considerable avail, which reaffirms my belief that people are not lazy, but genuinely busy, and as those of you in leadership positions may know, it is extremely difficult to persuade people to put the MHoC above their RL commitments. I'm sure you also realise that these periods tend to come in cycles and that momentary decrease in production may change rapidly, which I believe should happen soon, due to this MoNC which we all take very seriously.

    Nevertheless, I do not believe that these issues are a sufficient reason for an MoNC and would like to ask the truly honourable members to consider the circumstances and give us a chance to make amends. The government voting record is very high and most of us take active part in debates whenever we can and the topic is at least marginally interesting.




    Now let's address all the ridiculous stuff.

    The motion was proposed by Quamquam123 and seconded by DMcGovern, Andy98, cranbrook_aspie, DanE1998, Kay_Winters, Mactotaur. Most of them said very little in response to the previous MoNC but I've been able to recover this defensive statement by cranbrook_aspie:

    “This is a model parliament. Emphasis on model. I'm sorry but most people have other commitments and don't take it too seriously. Most of the time, you're not going to get high-quality, well-researched legislation, and most of the time, you're not going to get a Cabinet every single member of which has the time to spend a lot of time debating. It's just not going to happen. People have lives. And besides, we all know this has only been proposed because Life_peer is butthurt that he's not Prime Minister.”

    This makes him an utter hypocrite and therefore I consider everything he says in support of the current MoNC complete garbage. The rest of them, however, use similar arguments, so perhaps hearing this from one of their own and going back in time a couple of months ago might clear up their memories.

    I would also like to quote a Labourite non-seconder That Bearded Man whom I consider reasonable enough to transcend partisanship and opportunities for power grab, again to remind them the general idea using the words of one of their own: „ I find it pretty concerning that members talk about skipping RL plans to go on this. […] I don't back VONCs unless there is a genuine issue with leadership or parties have become inactive. A simple power grab. We should be saving VONCs for rare occasions.“

    Moving on, the proposer and his seconders complain about the effort that is going into the budget. It is a moot point since the time-frame has been announced and these very people refused to speak about theirs until about… four months into the term?

    Next, Statements of Intent are perhaps even more time-consuming than bills, since they need to present the bigger picture including future legislation plans. We have three of them ready.

    As for the crisis, it was an utter joke drafted by a known Irish nationalist slash socialist whose bias is clear as day. Our primary response was serious, but the subsequent turn of events was highly improbable, so we decided to focus on more important things. I have realised that the CC system isn't fair and needs to be amended. Even in the MoNC itself, the proposers use biased fabulation to smear the government.

    Ad frequent changes to the Cabinet, I consider it better than letting completely inactive people cling to those seats and rot there, *wink-wink*. It's funny that the main proposer has just stepped down as leader of the Labour party after what, five weeks? This alone should make him at least a little more sympathetic towards people who e.g. had to step down due to likely similar RL issues…

    Are you really going to lecturing us about infighting? The recent leader and current deputy of the party that couldn't even get their own members to support their party bill?! :laugh: JD and Limie may like to bicker but they are also very productive. People with special needs such as yourselves, dear proposer and his seconders, should again show a bit more understanding. At least they aren't running off to join other parties, *wink-wink*.

    Total lack of coordination is what I call the main proposer's leadership over the Labour party so let's not lower ourselves to hypocritical insults. You have to change MPs like socks in order to keep your seats (seven Labour and Socialist seats have already been occupied by three to four people in just 48 days, and the Greens had been using a long-term Liberal proxy until she was replaced by a long-term Socialist proxy), so let's also not lecture us on management and responsibility because once you don't have the active numbers, you have practically no options but to wait it out.

    Again, Labour budget took about four months—we've had 48 days and a commitment of 90 days. There is no failure on that front and your use of overly expressive words is pathetic.

    The country, i.e. the debating club, thank you very much. When you were presented with the same arguments, you refused them. In fact, most of you didn't even show up. Now, your seconder DanE1998 posts about five times every week and Mactotaur isn't much better, so perhaps start with recruiting active seconders next time.

    Okay, enough of this ********, back to work.

    Thank you for your time and again apologies to the reasonable ones! I'll do everything in my power to make the government more productive and if you throw some reasonable crises with fairly generated responses our way, we'll tackle them in all seriousness.
    This is a completely unsatisfactory response and quite frankly highlights how narrow-minded and ignorant you are.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Lol, so you even admit that you're being hypocritical. Besides, the circumstances were different. We physically didn't have more than one or two who had time during that particular period to be that active. You guys obviously do.
    First of all, of course I do, because unlike you, I don't see point in false pretence that just makes you look stupid. We're all hypocrites in a way but you and the likes of you are at the top of the hypocritical ladder.

    You know jack **** about who has how much time. We don't have time to write well-researched bills and have no interest in wasting our as much as your time with quick-to-write banalities like receipts, etc.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    This is a completely unsatisfactory response and quite frankly highlights how narrow-minded and ignorant you are.
    Your lack of counterarguments is a clear proof of that. :yy: You're now officially a bigger troll than Aph, congratulations.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    First of all, of course I do, because unlike you, I don't see point in false pretence that just makes you look stupid. We're all hypocrites in a way but you and the likes of you are at the top of the hypocritical ladder.

    You know jack **** about who has how much time. We don't have time to write well-researched bills and have no interest in wasting our as much as your time with quick-to-write banalities like receipts, etc.
    Fair enough, I'm not going to get into a protracted row with you about who is a bigger hypocrite because tbh it's a waste of time and would go in circles.

    Well, you clearly have time to write long-winded statements, and to name just one senior member, Jammy for example clearly has time to follow the news in detail and to post about it several times a day in the bar as well as debating, so :dontknow:
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    I find it very interesting that the Prime Minister believes it appropriate to include cursing and personal attacks on the opposition.

    As for the crisis, it was an utter joke
    Untrue, it was the most plausible crisis the CC has ever written, and did happen to some extent

    drafted by a known Irish nationalist slash socialist whose bias is clear as day.
    *Irish republican socialist, if you must, not that that makes any difference on the conclusion.

    Our primary response was serious,
    Interesting considering that many believed the government's response was overly heavy-handed in dissolving a devolved body essential for the peace process and setting up barricades in only Catholic areas making it look like the PSNI was sectarian, which we hinted would be a bad idea.

    but the subsequent turn of events was highly improbable

    Also untrue - the government response was near-identical to the RL 1969 crisis and the results were similar as well.

    You must also note that your Tory CC member (meaning no disrespect to him) along with everyone else found it an acceptable response.

    so we decided to focus on more important things.
    You mean you gave up because it had got too hard - these are the problems every government since 1969 up to today to a lesser extent have had to deal with.

    Even in the MoNC itself, the proposers use biased fabulation to smear the government.
    If you can't deal with a simple crisis then you have to deal with the consequences - it's not like hazzer's ridiculous Downing Street Siege crisis where you can just ignore it.
 
 
 

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