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Have you decided how you're going to vote yet? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Have you made up your mind about how to vote yet?
    Yes I'm definite about my vote
    128
    75.29%
    No- I've not decided yet
    9
    5.29%
    I'm not going to vote
    16
    9.41%
    I keep changing my mind
    17
    10.00%

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    I'm 100% decided but no way am I going to declare which was I'm voting here and risk being attacked. Whole campaign is really aggressive and nasty on both sides but I guess that's just politics for you.
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    (Original post by DreamlinerFinder)
    LEAVE as EU= threat to national security+ sovreighinty
    I think that the threat to National Security is slightly more than just the EU, if I'm being picky. Threat to sovereignty? What about the sovereignty of all the countries the English subjugated over the years? Ireland, India, Australia, Canada ... The reality is that the UK government can do more to influence the EU from within than they can from outside of it.
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    (Original post by AccountingBabe)
    What issues are you uncertain about?
    The economic one at the moment, it's uncertain on both sides. However, I think the UK will prosper in the long term regardless.
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    (Original post by Axion)
    This might help, and I'll try to be neutral, even though I am for Remain. From your personal perspective, I suspect most EU regulations benefit you, whether its safety protection or whatever. So this talk of democracy is largely irrelevant to most consumers in my opinion. So it can almost boil down to two things:

    1. Your stance on EU immigration and to what extent you believe it can be rectified if we leave.

    2. Your stance on the relative importance of the economy (unemployment, investment, credit availability, exchange rate etc.), against immigration. There is now hard evidence (it's already happening) that our economy will be hit, perhaps for 1-2 years, in the short-term. Longer-term is anyone's guess.

    So perhaps weigh up those two points. If you care largely about the need to control the #s of people we have from the EU and think that we can eventually do that from Leaving, and place a high importance on that vs. the economy, then perhaps Leave is your choice. if you are not sternly against immigration, or disbelieve the promises that it can be cut significantly enough should we leave, or you weigh economic strength over the next, say, two years more heavily, then perhaps you'd prefer Remain.
    Thank you for this! It does help to see simplified statements rather than the confusion that MP's are causing.

    When I hear the word immigration, I think of the increasing times I hear a foreign language outside my bedroom window compared to English. It is probably around half and half. That said, Leicester is a very multicultural city, so what would you expect?
    Then there's the figures which show that the degree of immigration into our country is quite well balanced by the emigration of the British to other countries (I believe it something like 350k in Spain currently), and I wouldn't want to stop them emigrating in case I decided I want to myself someday. By that logic, it would be unfair, racist and pompous of the British to decide that people are allowed out but not in.

    Therefore I believe that by my own reason I should be voting to stay in the EU.

    Thank you for clearing this up for me!
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    (Original post by carrotstar)
    Then there's the figures which show that the degree of immigration into our country is quite well balanced by the emigration of the British to other countries (I believe it something like 350k in Spain currently), and I wouldn't want to stop them emigrating in case I decided I want to myself someday. By that logic, it would be unfair, racist and pompous of the British to decide that people are allowed out but not in.
    Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with that part of your post or at least ask you to clarify it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36382199

    Net Migration isn't what you can call balanced: "The figure for EU-only net migration was 184,000, equalling its record high."

    I'm also somewhat confused by your logic regarding border control; how is it remotely "unfair, racist and pompous" for the UK to stop individuals entering the country that have no right to enter & are of no need to the UK? Maybe I've misunderstood you & apologise if this is the case. But if you truly do believe that then do you think the UK should have a total open borders policy?
    Even Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn suggested very recently that it's not racist to be concerned about immigration.

    I personally believe the UK should have the sovereignty to stop immigration from any source should the democratically elected government choose to do so.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with that part of your post or at least ask you to clarify it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36382199

    Net Migration isn't what you can call balanced: "The figure for EU-only net migration was 184,000, equalling its record high."

    I'm also somewhat confused by your logic regarding border control; how is it remotely "unfair, racist and pompous" for the UK to stop individuals entering the country that have no right to enter & are of no need to the UK? Maybe I've misunderstood you & apologise if this is the case. But if you truly do believe that then do you think the UK should have a total open borders policy?
    Even Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn suggested very recently that it's not racist to be concerned about immigration.

    I personally believe the UK should have the sovereignty to stop immigration from any source should the democratically elected government choose to do so.
    I am aware that migration is higher currently into the country than out (in terms of the EU).
    However that solely demonstrates EU figures. Immigrants will naturally come from the EU because it allows easy access to Britain. However emigrants from Britain aren't necessarily moving to the EU.
    Bear in mind that the vast majority of the population of Australia and the USA (for example), were British a few hundred years ago. So if Britain has populated other countries on such large scales, is it not fair that who we would refer to as 'foreigners' are allowed to populate Britain?

    After all, the Aborigine people and the Native American Indians didn't choose for us to populate their land.

    I know that's historical, but it demonstrates my point that if we allow people out, we should allow people in. It is only fair. And in terms of refugees, it is humane.
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    This is actually what you need to see :ahee:

    :rofl:

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    (Original post by carrotstar)
    I am aware that migration is higher currently into the country than out (in terms of the EU).
    However that solely demonstrates EU figures. Immigrants will naturally come from the EU because it allows easy access to Britain. However emigrants from Britain aren't necessarily moving to the EU.
    Bear in mind that the vast majority of the population of Australia and the USA (for example), were British a few hundred years ago. So if Britain has populated other countries on such large scales, is it not fair that who we would refer to as 'foreigners' are allowed to populate Britain?

    After all, the Aborigine people and the Native American Indians didn't choose for us to populate their land.

    I know that's historical, but it demonstrates my point that if we allow people out, we should allow people in. It is only fair. And in terms of refugees, it is humane.
    That's a beyond silly argument.

    If other countries have their borders open, and the population wants that, fair enough to go there.

    A bit different if we have a population that doesn't want our borders open.

    Makes no difference if we have people here who want to go to countries which want their border open.

    And the historical argument; are the sins of the father now the sins of the son?

    And in terms of refugees, only if they stay in first stable country (and move when it's unfair on country), and only if they respect us and our culture/values. Only if none intend to implement or carry out Sharia's Law for example, only if none intend to disrespect women or harm homosexual men.

    etc. etc.

    It's not as simple as "a moral obligation to help refugees", and you know it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    That's a beyond silly argument.

    If other countries have their borders open, and the population wants that, fair enough to go there.

    A bit different if we have a population that doesn't want our borders open.

    Makes no difference if we have people here who want to go to countries which want their border open.

    And the historical argument; are the sins of the father now the sins of the son?

    And in terms of refugees, only if they stay in first stable country (and move when it's unfair on country), and only if they respect us and our culture/values. Only if none intend to implement or carry out Sharia's Law for example, only if none intend to disrespect women or harm homosexual men.

    etc. etc.

    It's not as simple as "a moral obligation to help refugees", and you know it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Nothing is simple. And if, to you, I have made a silly argument, then I hope you find it amusing. I am entitled to my own opinion, hence how the public is able to vote and the PM isn't choosing for us.
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    (Original post by carrotstar)
    Nothing is simple. And if, to you, I have made a silly argument, then I hope you find it amusing. I am entitled to my own opinion, hence how the public is able to vote and the PM isn't choosing for us.
    I never questioned your entitlement, so I fail to see why you feel the need to bring it up. I too am entitled to my opinion, and I think bringing up the actions of my predecessors is stupid as an argument.

    You do realise the EU referendum is not legally binding?
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    Saw this post on Facebook, found it interesting
    Spoiler:
    Show
    A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

    Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:
    • Governor of the Bank of England
    • International Monetary Fund
    • Institute for Fiscal Studies
    • Confederation of British Industry
    • Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
    • President of the United States of America
    • Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
    • President of China
    • Prime Minister of India
    • Prime Minister of Canada
    • Prime Minister of Australia
    • Prime Minister of Japan
    • Prime Minister of New Zealand
    • The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
    • Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
    • All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
    • Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
    • The Prime Minister of the UK
    • The leader of the Labour Party
    • The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
    • The Leader of the Green Party
    • The Leader of the Scottish National Party
    • The leader of Plaid Cymru
    • Leader of Sinn Fein
    • Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
    • The Secretary General of the TUC
    • Unison
    • National Union of Students
    • National Union of Farmers
    • Stephen Hawking
    • Chief Executive of the NHS
    • 300 of the most prominent international historians
    • Director of Europol
    • David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
    • Former Directors of GCHQ
    • Secretary General of Nato
    • Church of England
    • Church in Scotland
    • Church in Wales
    • Friends of the Earth
    • Greenpeace
    • Director General of the World Trade Organisation
    • WWF
    • World Bank
    • OECD

    Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

    • Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave

    • A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick

    • That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system

    • Leader of UKIP
    • BNP
    • Britain First
    • Donald Trump
    • Keith Chegwin
    • David Icke

    So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.Please repost this list, if you think it might help.
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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
    Saw this post on Facebook, found it interesting
    Spoiler:
    Show
    A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

    Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:
    • Governor of the Bank of England
    • International Monetary Fund
    • Institute for Fiscal Studies
    • Confederation of British Industry
    • Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
    • President of the United States of America
    • Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
    • President of China
    • Prime Minister of India
    • Prime Minister of Canada
    • Prime Minister of Australia
    • Prime Minister of Japan
    • Prime Minister of New Zealand
    • The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
    • Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
    • All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
    • Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
    • The Prime Minister of the UK
    • The leader of the Labour Party
    • The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
    • The Leader of the Green Party
    • The Leader of the Scottish National Party
    • The leader of Plaid Cymru
    • Leader of Sinn Fein
    • Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
    • The Secretary General of the TUC
    • Unison
    • National Union of Students
    • National Union of Farmers
    • Stephen Hawking
    • Chief Executive of the NHS
    • 300 of the most prominent international historians
    • Director of Europol
    • David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
    • Former Directors of GCHQ
    • Secretary General of Nato
    • Church of England
    • Church in Scotland
    • Church in Wales
    • Friends of the Earth
    • Greenpeace
    • Director General of the World Trade Organisation
    • WWF
    • World Bank
    • OECD

    Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

    • Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave

    • A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick

    • That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system

    • Leader of UKIP
    • BNP
    • Britain First
    • Donald Trump
    • Keith Chegwin
    • David Icke

    So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.Please repost this list, if you think it might help.
    Appeal to Authority Fallacy: The Post
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    (Original post by carrotstar)
    I am aware that migration is higher currently into the country than out (in terms of the EU).
    However that solely demonstrates EU figures. Immigrants will naturally come from the EU because it allows easy access to Britain. However emigrants from Britain aren't necessarily moving to the EU.
    Bear in mind that the vast majority of the population of Australia and the USA (for example), were British a few hundred years ago. So if Britain has populated other countries on such large scales, is it not fair that who we would refer to as 'foreigners' are allowed to populate Britain?

    After all, the Aborigine people and the Native American Indians didn't choose for us to populate their land.

    I know that's historical, but it demonstrates my point that if we allow people out, we should allow people in. It is only fair. And in terms of refugees, it is humane.
    The historical argument is rather weak when the moral, economic & religious norms at the time are considered. Greece, Rome, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Russia/USSR, Persia, China, Turkey, Spain & Portugal have all had or tried hard to obtain colonies & have an empire. I'd argue that the British Empire, while far from perfect when you look back with 21st Century hindsight, was actually a force for good when compared to the others. There's also no logic in punishing anyone for their fore-bearers actions.

    Economics - The average wage in the UK is £27,000 which is higher than the majority of Europe. Both mainstream political parties, regardless of what you think of them, have raised the Minimum Wage & reduced the amount of Income Tax paid by the lowest paid workers.
    By 2020 the Minimum Wage will be £9 per hour if you're over 25; this is going to encourage migrants from both the EU & the rest of the world. There's increasing discussions about the future of labour as automation slowly begins to remove the need for a manned workforce - Universal Basic Income could & probably be brought in during our lifetimes. This would both lead to less jobs available & more individuals coming here should UBI be adopted.

    https://www.reinisfischer.com/averag...ean-union-2015

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_average_wage

    UK unemployment has recently fallen just 1.7 million (the best since 2005). Surely we should attempt to get some of these individuals back into work rather than relying on immigration? I know some of these would prefer a life on benefits (another reason minority of migrants come here) than actually working but I doubt the majority would.

    Skills - I strongly believe the UK Parliament should have full legislative powers over the UK borders. It makes far more economical sense to prioritise individuals who have the skills the economy needs. An engineer from India should take priority over a waitress or cleaner from Eastern Europe but under EU rules this cannot happen. The UK population are well known for donating heavily to charity but it doesn't mean the UK should become one.

    Culture - It is somewhat uncomfortable to suggest one culture is superior to another. Many migrants come here because the UK generally has a tolerant & liberal culture - some even come primarily due to this factor as they've been persecuted. There is no doubt the UK was a cultural superpower & still is to an extent. As well as sport, music, cinema, theatre, science & technology etc, principles like democracy, the rule of law, a mix of secularism & modernised Christian values are valued by many worldwide.
    When you compare UK culture to that of other nations in the Middle East, much of Africa & those like China, Russia etc then you'd be hard pressed to suggest British culture isn't superior to these. Controlled migration should lead to migrants assimilating into British culture rather than British culture having to adapt to the migrants; the latter situation isn't fair on either the majority of British public or the individuals that come here because of that culture.

    Refugees should be allowed to settle here should they truly be in need & economic migrants whose skills are needed should be welcome too.

    Your very much entitled to your opinion but I'll reiterate that having concern about immigration doesn't not make you even remotely racist.
 
 
 
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