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Even if you're pro-guns, why on earth are automatic rifles available in America? Watch

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    (Original post by Themini)
    Because they're highly regulated by laws and regulations. That's the issue I have with the US. From my first post, it quite clearly states that I'm not happy about the fact anyone can go to Walmart and buy a gun off the shelf during their weekly shop without any back ground or medical checks to make sure they aren't psychotic. I'm not happy with high power, high magazine capacity automatic weapons.

    The Swiss Weapons Act requires an acquisition license for handguns and a carrying license for the carrying of any permitted firearm for defensive purposes. Exceptions exist for hunters. Automatic weapons are banned
    Yawn.

    Firearm sales in the US require an NICS background check before purchase, and in some States there are further regulations such as mandatory waiting periods. Automatic weapons are also illegal and have been for a long time, and "high power, high magazine" are meaningless buzzwords you've pulled out of your ass. Please learn something about US firearm laws before trying to comment on them.

    These "high power, high magazine" weapons (by which you mean rifles) are also responsible for a tiny fraction of gun homicides; the vast vast majority are committed with regular handguns, and so was the largest mass shooting in the US until just last week.

    You've also deflected and changed the goalposts from your last post. Previously, you claimed that democratic, Western nations "don't need guns" and anyone who is pro-gun in any capacity has mental issues. Several European nations have a lot of firearms and are quite pro-gun, and are all doing considerably better than the UK. So again you're wrong, and desperately trying to backtrack.

    2/10, hoping you're just a *****y troll
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Yawn.

    Firearm sales in the US require an NICS background check before purchase, and in some States there are further regulations such as mandatory waiting periods. Automatic weapons are also illegal and have been for a long time, and "high power, high magazine" are meaningless buzzwords you've pulled out of your ass. Please learn something about US firearm laws before trying to comment on them.

    These "high power, high magazine" weapons (by which you mean rifles) are also responsible for a tiny fraction of gun homicides; the vast vast majority are committed with regular handguns, and so was the largest mass shooting in the US until just last week.

    You've also deflected and changed the goalposts from your last post. Previously, you claimed that democratic, Western nations "don't need guns" and anyone who is pro-gun in any capacity has mental issues. Several European nations have a lot of firearms and are quite pro-gun, and are all doing considerably better than the UK. So again you're wrong, and desperately trying to backtrack.

    2/10, hoping you're just a *****y troll
    Lol I destroyed your argument and you have no stats to back up any of the shi*e you're coming up with. Nice deflections. GG. I love how you don't even try to back pedal, you know how badly you've lost this.


    My favourite part about all this is when you tried to compare a country with 30 guns per capita with one with 112 per capita.

    LOL
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Lol I destroyed your argument and you have no stats to back up any of the shi*e you're coming up with. Nice deflections. GG. I love how you don't even try to back pedal, you know how badly you've lost this.


    My favourite part about all this is when you tried to compare a country with 30 guns per capita with one with 112 per capita.

    LOL
    Troll confirmed
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Troll confirmed
    Lol 10/10. No links? Thought so.

    No moderately intelligent person can back up any good reason for pro gun ownership.

    Where are my crime statistics?

    You've lost this mate. Nice one.
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Lol 10/10. No links? Thought so.

    No moderately intelligent person can back up any good reason for pro gun ownership.

    Where are my crime statistics?

    You've lost this mate. Nice one.
    What exactly are you after?

    1) US gun sales require an NICS background check: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

    2) Automatic weapons are near completely illegal in the US: https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-c...senate-bill/49

    3) "High power" rifles account for just 250 of 8000 firearm homicides each year: https://www.quandl.com/data/FBI/WEAP...by-Weapon-Type

    4) Western European nations with higher gun ownership rates than the UK have lower homicide rates: rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate (Source: UNODC)

    You're grossly ignorant of US firearm laws, and gun politics and statistics in general. Please refrain from commenting on this topic in future, for the benefit of everyone reading these threads.
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    What exactly are you after?

    1) US gun sales require an NICS background check: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

    2) Automatic weapons are near completely illegal in the US: https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-c...senate-bill/49

    3) "High power" rifles account for just 250 of 8000 firearm homicides each year: https://www.quandl.com/data/FBI/WEAP...by-Weapon-Type

    4) Western European nations with higher gun ownership rates than the UK have lower homicide rates: rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate (Source: UNODC)

    You're grossly ignorant of US firearm laws, and gun politics and statistics in general. Please refrain from commenting on this topic in future, for the benefit of everyone reading these threads.
    Typical Hitler response, shut someone up when they make you look stupid then resort to calling them ignorant.
    "Why are European countries with several times higher rates of gun ownership than the UK, considerably safer than the UK".

    Where are my crime statistics? Murder statistics, murders involving guns??
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Typical Hitler response, shut someone up when they make you look stupid then resort to calling them ignorant.
    "Why are European countries with several times higher rates of gun ownership than the UK, considerably safer than the UK".

    Where are my crime statistics? Murder statistics, murders involving guns??
    Are you not even capable of clicking 4 links now? All the evidence to refute your incorrect claims is provided in the above post.
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    A semi automatic rifle really still makes no sense if you've only got a gun for "self defence"



    That's blatantly wrong.
    Basically every gun is semi-automatic, liberals really don't understand what they are talking about.
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    (Original post by Themini)
    Typical Hitler response, shut someone up when they make you look stupid then resort to calling them ignorant.
    "Why are European countries with several times higher rates of gun ownership than the UK, considerably safer than the UK".

    Where are my crime statistics? Murder statistics, murders involving guns??
    Typical leftist response, when debating, refer to Hitler.

    Notice how leftist always jump to Hitler, never any other figure from history, always Hitler, mainly because they don't really understand history so struggle to name others.
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    (Original post by Grand High Witch)
    I am pro-full gun control as in the UK, but even if America is to retain its right to bear arms, why is this not limited to basic handguns only? Why are automatic rifles available for sale? What possible purpose could buying an automatic rifle serve?

    Automatic rifles in the US are either flat out illegal or extremely expensive to get your hands on due to different state and national regulations, people have to jump through a lot of hoops.

    On the topic of semi-automatic rifles and them being a problem in the US


    Something like this is legal in Canada, Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, Finland, Sweden etcetc.



    Scary huh? Well not really.

    Personally I think somewhere like Canada has the right balance law wise, but then they also have a much better mental health system and less ethnic tensions that spark things like mass shootings in the first place.
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    What exactly are you after?

    1) US gun sales require an NICS background check: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

    2) Automatic weapons are near completely illegal in the US: https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-c...senate-bill/49

    3) "High power" rifles account for just 250 of 8000 firearm homicides each year: https://www.quandl.com/data/FBI/WEAP...by-Weapon-Type

    4) Western European nations with higher gun ownership rates than the UK have lower homicide rates: rates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate (Source: UNODC)

    You're grossly ignorant of US firearm laws, and gun politics and statistics in general. Please refrain from commenting on this topic in future, for the benefit of everyone reading these threads.
    1) A system that is horrifically unreliable. Also the background check requires specifics that doesn't stop people who would be denied firearms in this country. Then you have the gun show loophole.

    2. But they're not fully illegal. Also many gun makers simply make semi-auto version of fully automatic guns. The AR-15 is a great example, the civilian version re-purposed to be semi automatic, in effect it's still an assault rifle and just as dangerous as an M-16 despite not being full automatic (Most M-16 aren't even fully automatic).

    3. Most likely to the prevalence of handguns, the more handguns in circulation the more likely handguns are going to be used.

    4) And some western European nations with higher gun ownership have higher rates of homicides. What is more important is gun restrictions.

    Take switzerland, each milita member with a fully automatic gun was limited to 50 rounds of ammunition that was audited by the government yearly. Since 2007 only 2,000 individuals are still allowed to have such ammunition. Self defence permits in Europe are also extremely strict, many requiring a specific threat. Similar permits can technically still be applied in the UK, however outside of the security profession it is extremely rare outside of Northern Ireland.

    What I see as dangerous is when US citizen's buy guys and view them a adult toys. Having fired a gun myself I get it.... but these are toys designed to kill people. Keep them on firing ranges if you want to have fun, there is no need at all to keep them at home.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    If guns are kept in a locked safe, they are useless for self-defence against such intruders.
    I'm not entirely sure how that follows.

    On the whole, I think your argument here is rather weak. Ultimately having dangerous things in a home means it is more likely unpleasant things will happen - but there are plenty of steps to take to prevent that. What we see in the United States is guns left lying around in a way no-one in this country would ever conceive of doing. In part, that's because they're more common and treated less cautiously - in part, it's also because some people are idiots.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Typical leftist response, when debating, refer to Hitler.

    Notice how leftist always jump to Hitler, never any other figure from history, always Hitler, mainly because they don't really understand history so struggle to name others.
    "hahaha look at this dumb liberal"

    Debating standards on this thread are ****ing top notch.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Typical leftist response, when debating, refer to Hitler.

    Notice how leftist always jump to Hitler, never any other figure from history, always Hitler, mainly because they don't really understand history so struggle to name others.
    literally hitler tho
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    "hahaha look at this dumb liberal"

    Debating standards on this thread are ****ing top notch.
    Oh wow and by posting that you are really contributing to the standards aren't you?

    Go whore some +reps somewhere else
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    (Original post by Dieselblue)
    Oh wow and by posting that you are really contributing to the standards aren't you?

    Go whore some +reps somewhere else
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Further strengthening my argument
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    1) A system that is horrifically unreliable. Also the background check requires specifics that doesn't stop people who would be denied firearms in this country. Then you have the gun show loophole.
    Then perhaps we can discuss improving the background check process (and plenty of pro-gunners are fine with this). But the left isn't just interested in this; they want to ban ownership of certain or even all firearms.

    2. But they're not fully illegal. Also many gun makers simply make semi-auto version of fully automatic guns. The AR-15 is a great example, the civilian version re-purposed to be semi automatic, in effect it's still an assault rifle and just as dangerous as an M-16 despite not being full automatic (Most M-16 aren't even fully automatic).
    And as far as I am aware, not a single automatic rifle has ever been used in a mass shooting, and are almost never seen used in any crime at all. So why the concern over something which has almost no effect on US gun violence?

    3. Most likely to the prevalence of handguns, the more handguns in circulation the more likely handguns are going to be used.
    And they are light, cheap, and easy to conceal. Regardless, rifles (auto or semi-auto) make up a tiny proportion of gun homicides and crime. Until just last week, the largest mass shooting in US history was committed with a handgun. So the fear-mongering around "assault weapons" has no basis in reality.

    4) And some western European nations with higher gun ownership have higher rates of homicides. What is more important is gun restrictions.

    Take switzerland, each milita member with a fully automatic gun was limited to 50 rounds of ammunition that was audited by the government yearly. Since 2007 only 2,000 individuals are still allowed to have such ammunition. Self defence permits in Europe are also extremely strict, many requiring a specific threat. Similar permits can technically still be applied in the UK, however outside of the security profession it is extremely rare outside of Northern Ireland.

    What I see as dangerous is when US citizen's buy guys and view them a adult toys. Having fired a gun myself I get it.... but these are toys designed to kill people. Keep them on firing ranges if you want to have fun, there is no need at all to keep them at home.
    Private firearms and ammunition are freely available for purchase in Switzerland. Yes, militia members are provided with a firearm which must be stored in a particular place and government supplied ammunition is limited, but privately, citizens can buy whatever the hell they want. And as we know, it is one of the safest countries in the world.

    Guns are tools designed to discharge a projectile. What they are used for is entirely dependent on the individual holding them. Every year in the US, 300 million firearms manage not to kill anyone.

    There is every need to keep a firearm at home or on the person, evidenced by the several hundred thousand incidences (by low estimates) of defensive gun uses per year in the US. More importantly, Americans have a right to keep and bear arms regardless of whether any liberal trolls think they have a need or not.
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    (Original post by VV Cephei A)
    Private firearms and ammunition are freely available for purchase in Switzerland. Yes, militia members are provided with a firearm which must be stored in a particular place and government supplied ammunition is limited, but privately, citizens can buy whatever the hell they want. And as we know, it is one of the safest countries in the world.

    Guns are tools designed to discharge a projectile. What they are used for is entirely dependent on the individual holding them. Every year in the US, 300 million firearms manage not to kill anyone.

    There is every need to keep a firearm at home or on the person, evidenced by the several hundred thousand incidences (by low estimates) of defensive gun uses per year in the US. More importantly, Americans have a right to keep and bear arms regardless of whether any liberal trolls think they have a need or not.
    In Switzerland there is restriction on ammunition brought, seeing you can only have assault rifles if you're in the milita as such, despite the ammunition being for sale, only those say in private security or those who are in charge of firing ranges are allowed to buy the ammunition for such weapons.

    A gun is specifically designed to kill people. Even if you look in individual weapons such as the AR-15 (again it's a great example), the calibre size requirement from the US government that drove it's development required a slightly smaller calibre size as it was more lethal. Even concerning ammunition types on sale in the US most a designed for killing people instead of for target shooting. Most american gun owners will also buy guns for personal protection, so it is a requirement that it can kill an attacker. A spud gun is designed to fire a projectile that does not kill or maim... if americans simply want guns that fire projectiles why don't they own spud guns, airsoft rifles or paintball guns instead?

    What's even more crazy even though people light to cite self defence as a reason to own guns, more guns are used in acts to threaten people than they are used to defend people per year in the US. Then add to the fact armed individuals are more likely to be injured or killed in an attack than unarmed individuals.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    1) A system that is horrifically unreliable. Also the background check requires specifics that doesn't stop people who would be denied firearms in this country. Then you have the gun show loophole.

    2. But they're not fully illegal. Also many gun makers simply make semi-auto version of fully automatic guns. The AR-15 is a great example, the civilian version re-purposed to be semi automatic, in effect it's still an assault rifle and just as dangerous as an M-16 despite not being full automatic (Most M-16 aren't even fully automatic).

    3. Most likely to the prevalence of handguns, the more handguns in circulation the more likely handguns are going to be used.

    4) And some western European nations with higher gun ownership have higher rates of homicides. What is more important is gun restrictions.

    Take switzerland, each milita member with a fully automatic gun was limited to 50 rounds of ammunition that was audited by the government yearly. Since 2007 only 2,000 individuals are still allowed to have such ammunition. Self defence permits in Europe are also extremely strict, many requiring a specific threat. Similar permits can technically still be applied in the UK, however outside of the security profession it is extremely rare outside of Northern Ireland.

    What I see as dangerous is when US citizen's buy guys and view them a adult toys. Having fired a gun myself I get it.... but these are toys designed to kill people. Keep them on firing ranges if you want to have fun, there is no need at all to keep them at home.
    The gun show loophole doesn't exist

    https://youtu.be/UEihkjKNhN8
 
 
 
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