Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Muslim group urges members to break fast and donate blood after Orlando shootings watch

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mrs.Grey)
    Saving lives is one thing and breaking fast is another. In my opinion, no, they could defo give blood after they break the fast tbh.
    Wow. This is one the most regressive things I've ever read on TSR. And that's saying something............
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 34908seikj)
    Ahmadiyya .
    Knew it.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Good on the Ahmadis! Bless them.
    I grew up by the largest Ahmadi community in the country. Their mosque was the one that got burned down last year. They were an absolute credit and a huge benefit to the wider community as they were constantly involved with charity work both with and for all sorts of other religious groups. They sell poppies in November, do rubbish collections in parks and clean ice and snow from drives for free. They integrated perfectly. The banner at the mosque read "love for all, hatred for none." Quite frankly the Sunnis could learn a lot from them but I won't hold my breath on that.

    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Not trying to be rude or anything but who on Earth are you to decide they aren't real Muslims? Ahmadis are the most peaceful sect of Islam and is arguably pretty much the only sect compatible with the West and yet they get called traitors to their religion.
    Indeed. The scum bag imam from the Islamic Centre over in Tooting (a neighbouring borough) used to constantly put fatwas on the entire Ahmadi community! Before it got burned down, they had to heighten security at their centre because of all the death threads they were getting from Sunnis. Many figures from the TIC were involved in a long-standing hate campaign against the Ahmadis, including the distribution of malicious leaflets. Attendees at this place were encouraged to boycott Ahmadi businesses. The police even had to step in at one point in the hate campaign. A Tory MP candidate was once locked in a room at the TIC for his own safety after people mistook him for the Lib Dem canidate who is an Ahmadi. Unfortunately Tooting MP Sadique Khan did nothing about the hate campaign and could barely bring himself to condemn those responsible when a local newspaper interviewed him about it. In fact he tried to deny there was such a campaign by those at the TIC because the animals agreed to withdraw the leaflets when pressured to do so. Gee, great! Though he did acknowledge there is a big problem generally in this country with regards to harassing of Ahmadis and compared the abuse they get from mainstream Muslims to the abuse black people used to get in Britain back in the day.

    Over in Kingston leaflets were given out calling for the murder of Ahmadis. Ahmadi mosques in Crawley and Newham were vandalised. Islamist satellite TV channels are also bad for this stuff. Ummah Channel for example had to be pulled up by Ofcom for featuring preachers who were calling for Ahmadis to be killed and who praised the attacks on Ahmadi mosques in Pakistan.

    I remember when the Morden mosque burned down. The statement from the Muslim Council of Britain was basically "don't call them Muslims". They just had their mosque burned down and that's what they come out with! And then there's the reactions from TSR Isoc members. The majority reaction was the same as the MCB's. Not expressing dismay at the travesty of what happened or sympathy for the community but just *****ing about people calling them Muslims.

    Classy people, right?

    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Apparently the Pakistani Constitution says they aren't Muslims. :/
    As does the Muslim Council of Britain, who were involved in protesting the biilding of the Morden mosque in the first place. By the way I remember one Isoc member trying to justify support for a notion to ban them!

    It's just occurred to me actually that the reaction I described above was the same when that Ahmadi Glaswegian shop keeper was murdered.

    The Ahmadi community is a treasure and we ought to treat them as such and take more action to protect them from the abuse they get. It's a pity Salafi filth are accepted by mainstream Muslims and Ahmadis not. I hate to say it but that's not a good sign...........
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    8. As QE2 once admitted himself, people outside of a club who do not meet the mininum requirements cannot claim to be apart of the club but then complain when they aren't acknowledged as members and try to bend the rules of the majority of the club to join it.
    But those people are quite entitled to set up their own club to carry out the same activity, and should not face calls for their death from the rival club.

    Pick your own analogy from the world of sport, for example.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    They believe in a Prophet after Muhammad (PBUH); they claim he is the Messiah but still he claimed to receive revelations (which would make him a Prophet/Messenger). In reality, it's founder was a deviant who died whilst whilst taking a scat.

    As others have said, generally the Ahmadiyyah are outside of the fold of Islam, and this is consensus amongst both Shia and Sunni scholars; it is up to any Ahmadi individual to prove that they are Muslim.
    Hmm interesting, to my knowledge, they don't believe in another Prophet, rather believe that a messiah has/did arrive?

    I'm not sure I'm going to buy the notion that they believe in another prophet after the Holy Prophet. In fact, if I recall correctly, did not some of their scholars write a book named something like: "Love to Muhammad, who was Khatimun Nabbiyin (final messenger)"?

    No-one has to prove if they're Muslim, this is frankly absurd. I can't see why people simply cannot focus on themselves and stop judging others as per their faith, not to mention causing more disunity than there already is.

    This is also one of the dangers of blindly following scholars.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    I grew up by the largest Ahmadi community in the country. Their mosque was the one that got burned down last year. They were an absolute credit and a huge benefit to the wider community as they were constantly involved with charity work both with and for all sorts of other religious groups. They sell poppies in November, do rubbish collections in parks and clean ice and snow from drives for free. They integrated perfectly. The banner at the mosque read "love for all, hatred for none." Quite frankly the Sunnis could learn a lot from them but I won't hold my breath on that.



    Indeed. The scum bag imam from the Islamic Centre over in Tooting (a neighbouring borough) used to constantly put fatwas on the entire Ahmadi community! Before it got burned down, they had to heighten security at their centre because of all the death threads they were getting from Sunnis. Many figures from the TIC were involved in a long-standing hate campaign against the Ahmadis, including the distribution of malicious leaflets. Attendees at this place were encouraged to boycott Ahmadi businesses. The police even had to step in at one point in the hate campaign. A Tory MP candidate was once locked in a room at the TIC for his own safety after people mistook him for the Lib Dem canidate who is an Ahmadi. Unfortunately Tooting MP Sadique Khan did nothing about the hate campaign and could barely bring himself to condemn those responsible when a local newspaper interviewed him about it. In fact he tried to deny there was such a campaign by those at the TIC because the animals agreed to withdraw the leaflets when pressured to do so. Gee, great! Though he did acknowledge there is a big problem generally in this country with regards to harassing of Ahmadis and compared the abuse they get from mainstream Muslims to the abuse black people used to get in Britain back in the day.

    Over in Kingston leaflets were given out calling for the murder of Ahmadis. Ahmadi mosques in Crawley and Newham were vandalised. Islamist satellite TV channels are also bad for this stuff. Ummah Channel for example had to be pulled up by Ofcom for featuring preachers who were calling for Ahmadis to be killed and who praised the attacks on Ahmadi mosques in Pakistan.

    I remember when the Morden mosque burned down. The statement from the Muslim Council of Britain was basically "don't call them Muslims". They just had their mosque burned down and that's what they come out with! And then there's the reactions from TSR Isoc members. The majority reaction was the same as the MCB's. Not expressing dismay at the travesty of what happened or sympathy for the community but just *****ing about people calling them Muslims.

    Classy people, right?



    As does the Muslim Council of Britain, who were involved in protesting the biilding of the Morden mosque in the first place. By the way I remember one Isoc member trying to justify support for a notion to ban them!

    It's just occurred to me actually that the reaction I described above was the same when that Ahmadi Glaswegian shop keeper was murdered.

    The Ahmadi community is a treasure and we ought to treat them as such and take more action to protect them from the abuse they get. It's a pity Salafi filth are accepted by mainstream Muslims and Ahmadis not. I hate to say it but that's not a good sign...........
    The beliefs of some of the ISOC members are quite frankly disgusting. I remember with that thread about that Ahamadi in Glasgow being killed and literally some of them just said that he wasn't a real Muslim and they had every right to judge him because Ahmadi beliefs go out of the fold of Islam.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mil88)
    Hmm interesting, to my knowledge, they don't believe in another Prophet, rather believe that a messiah has/did arrive?

    I'm not sure I'm going to buy the notion that they believe in another prophet after the Holy Prophet. In fact, if I recall correctly, did not some of their scholars write a book named something like: "Love to Muhammad, who was Khatimun Nabbiyin (final messenger)"?

    No-one has to prove if they're Muslim, this is frankly absurd. I can't see why people simply cannot focus on themselves and stop judging others as per their faith, not to mention causing more disunity than there already is.

    This is also one of the dangers of blindly following scholars.
    AFAIK mirza claimed to be part of the prophet muhammad pbuh though I think many claim he was a seperate prophet too. So I'm not too sure. Though it seems to be heading towards disbelief nontheless from the majority perspective. But I couldn't make such a statement to claim the entire sect is not Muslim if they claim to be.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    AFAIK mirza claimed to be part of the prophet muhammad pbuh though I think many claim he was a seperate prophet too. So I'm not too sure. Though it seems to be heading towards disbelief nontheless from the majority perspective. But I couldn't make such a statement to claim the entire sect is not Muslim if they claim to be.
    Although I could be mistaken, I believe there's a misunderstanding here and this is a direct result of blindly obeying to what scholars say, for this isn't the first time I have encountered a scenario like this.

    I think it's more like he was a messiah rather than a prophet, I believe I quoted a book about this before.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mil88)
    Hmm interesting, to my knowledge, they don't believe in another Prophet, rather believe that a messiah has/did arrive?

    I'm not sure I'm going to buy the notion that they believe in another prophet after the Holy Prophet. In fact, if I recall correctly, did not some of their scholars write a book named something like: "Love to Muhammad, who was Khatimun Nabbiyin (final messenger)"?

    No-one has to prove if they're Muslim, this is frankly absurd. I can't see why people simply cannot focus on themselves and stop judging others as per their faith, not to mention causing more disunity than there already is.

    This is also one of the dangers of blindly following scholars.
    Many of the Ahamdiyyah aren't stupid enough to claim he is a prophet but say he was the messiah and all this other guff too, which is what I already pointed out in my post. But Mirza Ghulam Ahmad still claimed to receive divine revelation, which would thus make him a prophet or messenger... anywho, their beliefs are kufr by Ijmah of both Sunni and Shia scholars.

    If someone claims they are Ahmadi, their beliefs are beyond the normal band of differences that say occur between a Sunni and a Shi'i, and therefore I cannot give them benefit of the doubt unless he is able to tell me he is Muslim otherwise; for the sake of peace I don't make takfir to people's faces for the hell of it because there is no point, but like if I know a person is Ahmadi I would never pray behind him or anything...

    Saying 'focus on yourselves and stop judging others' is a cop out and ironically a reason why the Ummah is fragmented in the first place - giving deviance room to breathe is why people people's aqeedah differs so much from one person to the next, which is why you will have a Sufi, a Salafi, an Ithna Ashari, a Zaydi, an Ibadi, a Barelwi, an Ishmaeli etc etc. I cannot unite with someone upon Kufr and I do not frankly want to unite on Kufr - people go on about unity this and unity that but this means very little when unity on the deen can't even be achieved.

    This is a religion of daleel indeed; I have never seen any to prove that the Ahmadiyyah are Muslim, only daleel which testifies against them. The danger is the blind following of those who call to unity with those upon falsehood.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mil88)
    Although I could be mistaken, I believe there's a misunderstanding here and this is a direct result of blindly obeying to what scholars say, for this isn't the first time I have encountered a scenario like this.

    I think it's more like he was a messiah rather than a prophet, I believe I quoted a book about this before.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophethood_(Ahmadiyya)

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mil88)
    Although I could be mistaken, I believe there's a misunderstanding here and this is a direct result of blindly obeying to what scholars say, for this isn't the first time I have encountered a scenario like this.

    I think it's more like he was a messiah rather than a prophet, I believe I quoted a book about this before.
    I'm pretty sure there's a quote by him saying he's part of the prophet. I'll find it later.

    It is slightly ironic how mirza seemed to want to ostracise his sect from the rest of us. He didn't do a funeral prayer for his son because of this.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    But those people are quite entitled to set up their own club to carry out the same activity, and should not face calls for their death from the rival club.

    Pick your own analogy from the world of sport, for example.
    That's beside the point - making their own club is still a seperate club, not an extension of the initial club.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Denominations are what happens when a group runs out of people to fight with so they decide to split themselves up.

    Catholics and Protestants and all the rest, fighting because they all believe in God. ****ing numptys. And how many even go to church? So now you have different degrees of catholic etc., so you have potential of subgroups creating subgroups so they can fight more.

    Humanity is only happy when everyone is different so we can all say that difference is inferior. We all think we are the true Adam/Eve, and everyone else is some sort of *******isation of reality or perfection.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    The beliefs of some of the ISOC members are quite frankly disgusting. I remember with that thread about that Ahamadi in Glasgow being killed and literally some of them just said that he wasn't a real Muslim and they had every right to judge him because Ahmadi beliefs go out of the fold of Islam.
    We sympathise with those who are killed unjustly; there is nothing wrong in identifying a person as outside of a community, and it does not diminish our sympathy just because we say that he is not one of us. It reminds of how the funeral provession of a Jew went past the Prophet and he stood up, and his companions questioned why he stood for the Jew when the Jews rejected him and hated him, and he responded by saying along the lines of "Was he not a child of Adam (humanbeing) too?". Similarly the Ahmadi are not of the Muslims, just like the Jews are different to us, but they are human beings.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    We sympathise with those who are killed unjustly; there is nothing wrong in identifying a person as outside of a community, and it does not diminish our sympathy just because we say that he is not one of us. It reminds of how the funeral provession of a Jew went past the Prophet and he stood up, and his companions questioned why he stood for the Jew when the Jews rejected him and hated him, and he responded by saying along the lines of "Was he not a child of Adam (humanbeing) too?". Similarly the Ahmadi are not of the Muslims, just like the Jews are different to us, but they are human beings.
    Surely having the ignorant views that Ahmadis aren't real Muslims create even more ignorance which leads to even more trouble for them because everyone thinks its ok to hurt them?
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Surely having the ignorant views that Ahmadis aren't real Muslims create even more ignorance which leads to even more trouble for them because everyone thinks its ok to hurt them?
    It's not ignorant just because it doesn't meet your flowery world views where people can call themselves what they want - it's based on evidence, otherwise we wouldn't say that they are non-Muslim.
    I disagree with extrajudicial punishment anyway, but let us use a comparative analogy: if people in the UK became accustomed to vigilante justice and started lynching rapists in the street, is the solution to decriminalise or redefine what constitutes rape? Obviously not. The solution is an attitude problem which must be dealt through a steady education of the people to maintain law and order and justice, and not to succumb to the desire for mob justice.
    Similarly people need to be civilised and be educated on respecting law and order and justice without being force to compromise the rules within their faith.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    That's beside the point - making their own club is still a seperate club, not an extension of the initial club.
    They are a different club, but they're still playing the same sport.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    They are a different club, but they're still playing the same sport.
    Jews are a different club but are playing the same sport; it doesn't matter that the kit and style of play is similar between the Ahmadiyyah and the Muslims, they are still seperate clubs.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    We sympathise with those who are killed unjustly;
    And there we have it again.
    The pretence at condemnation, but using weasel words to allow condoning the killing of those who you think deserve it.

    Why can't you just say "We absolutely, unequivocally and unreservedly condemn the killing of anybody on the basis of religious belief, whatever the apparent justification".

    It really isn't that hard. Just C&P the sentence above, if you like.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I was genuinely taken aback by this. Now I wish that there was a God in heaven, who could bless these people abundantly! Such selfless charity is very rare in this day and age

    Also, if you're one of those people who say "They aren't true Muslims" to try and discredit their actions, you are a fool. Neither is it the point of the main article, nor does anyone care.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: June 20, 2016
Poll
Who is your favourite TV detective?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.