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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Hey yeah! There's someone who looks like he's in a home built crystal meth factory. Let's listen to him.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Hey yeah! There's someone who looks like he's in a home built crystal meth factory. Let's listen to him.
    Naveed. Does the guy actually have any views of his own or does he just slurp up all the **** that brexit come out with :lol:
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    So would the pound drop if we leave the EU?
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    So would the pound drop if we leave the EU?
    Nope, not at all.
    All rumours are rubbish. We will be fine.

    In Denmark, before the Euro referendum, they said to Denmark's public that the Kroner will drop and the Kroner will be in even more debt. After the referendum, the Kroner was at decent level, and increased.
    Its all rubbish that comes from the EU funded media.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    So would the pound drop if we leave the EU?


    In the short term the pound will drop substantially. What happens long term will depend on how well the economy does.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    We're not as culturally rich as Switzerland. We'd have nothing without our empire and the immigrants that make this country.
    I don't think I've come across a person as unintelligent and as misinformed as you are in discussing this EU referendum. On the 23rd of June, Britain is going to decide whether it wants to stay in the EU or not, and sensationalist left-wing hysteria does not help especially when it's founded off idealistic falsities and knee-jerk misappropriation.

    Let's begin with your claim that Switzerland is somehow more culturally diverse than the UK. Do you have any evidence for this? Because the latest demographic statistics as provided by CIA World Factbook suggest that over 85% of Switzerland's population are white European, with only 5% being Muslim and just 10% originating from outside of Europe. In contrast to the UK, albeit Britain has a slightly higher amount of white Europeans at 91%, the remaining 9% are from cultures much more varied and vast than you see from Switzerland - and like Switzerland, Britain's Muslim population is also around 5%. For you to make the claim that Switzerland is more culturally diverse than the UK is just plain wrong and it's embarrassing that you're willing to say such falsities for political advantage.

    Later on in your posts, I heard you also talking about how leaving the EU will restore white supremacy and how Britain has an obligation to take in immigrants because of our colonial past. I would argue these points but it's a clear reiteration that you're no less better than those on the far-right who use acts of terror committed by Muslims to label and demean the entire Muslim population. Why? Because you're a sensationalist. There's no room for reactionaries in politics so maybe you should get back to your arts degree.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Nope, not at all.
    All rumours are rubbish. We will be fine.

    In Denmark, before the Euro referendum, they said to Denmark's public that the Kroner will drop and the Kroner will be in even more debt. After the referendum, the Kroner was at decent level, and increased.
    Its all rubbish that comes from the EU funded media.
    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    In the short term the pound will drop substantially. What happens long term will depend on how well the economy does.
    Also the DKK is pegged to the Euro.

    So they retained their own currency but follow the Euro anyway.

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    (Original post by jake4198)
    I don't think I've come across a person as unintelligent and as misinformed as you are in discussing this EU referendum. On the 23rd of June, Britain is going to decide whether it wants to stay in the EU or not, and sensationalist left-wing hysteria does not help especially when it's founded off idealistic falsities and knee-jerk misappropriation.

    Let's begin with your claim that Switzerland is somehow more culturally diverse than the UK. Do you have any evidence for this? Because the latest demographic statistics as provided by CIA World Factbook suggest that over 85% of Switzerland's population are white European, with only 5% being Muslim and just 10% originating from outside of Europe. In contrast to the UK, albeit Britain has a slightly higher amount of white Europeans at 91%, the remaining 9% are from cultures much more varied and vast than you see from Switzerland - and like Switzerland, Britain's Muslim population is also around 5%. For you to make the claim that Switzerland is more culturally diverse than the UK is just plain wrong and it's embarrassing that you're willing to say such falsities for political advantage.

    Later on in your posts, I heard you also talking about how leaving the EU will restore white supremacy and how Britain has an obligation to take in immigrants because of our colonial past. I would argue these points but it's a clear reiteration that you're no less better than those on the far-right who use acts of terror committed by Muslims to label and demean the entire Muslim population. Why? Because you're a sensationalist. There's no room for reactionaries in politics so maybe you should get back to your arts degree.
    tldr, and also i'll be doing an engineering degree. you know, people who work with facts, numbers, reality. unlike every brexiter ever
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    tldr, and also i'll be doing an engineering degree. you know, people who work with facts, numbers, reality. unlike every brexiter ever
    How rude.I as a Brexiter also look at facts and reality. Switzerland is doing very well. There is nothing wrong with Voting Leave so that we can take control of our laws, border control and £350 million. We love our country, and we want to take back control. We want our country back. We believe in our country, and we believe we can do it.

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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    How rude.I as a Brexiter also look at facts and reality. Switzerland is doing very well. There is nothing wrong with Voting Leave so that we can take control of our laws, border control and £350 million. We love our country, and we want to take back control.
    you keep saying the exact same thing and there truly is no substance to it, because sovereignity < economic growth, prosperity and advancement of mankind's knowledge
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    So would the pound drop if we leave the EU?
    What Nulli said however the pound has already fallen about 20% since July 2014 anyway purely because it was overvalued against the Euro (since the Euro is half recovering it was always going to strengthen against the pound) and the world expects the US to raise interest rates (which means money pouring into the US).

    You can expect on Friday a significant movement south in stock, bond and currency markets (possibly enough to stop trading) and then several further large movements when negotiations hit roadblocks as both sides posture however once we actually leave there's little reason to suggest that we would not see a steady strengthening albeit possibly not to 07 or 14 levels.
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    For anyone who missed TSR's Big EU Referendum - The Panel Debate, here are the main points raised on behalf of #VoteLeave:

    UK Finances
    As a committed Europhile (in the true sense of the word) I feel a strong sense of fraternity with our continental cousins, and as someone who has lived on the continent know Europe to be a fantastic place – steeped in rich culture, history, and heritage, and (ordinarily) abound with opportunities. As a learned social scientist, and someone who has dedicated himself to exploring/debating the EU in some detail, I also feel a sense of foreboding about our continued membership of the ailing institution, however:

    UK ECONOMY
    • UK payments to the EU (£13bn p.a.) constitute 20% of the budget deficit, of which only a third comes back – with strings attached | FFT
    • Net fiscal contribution of EEA migrants is +/- £2bn, or 0.25% of public expenditure i.e. impact of EU migration is small either way | MW
    • One of Project Fear’s many threats is that #Brexit will see house prices fall by 20%, according to the Chancellor. Yes please, Mr. Osborne! | GDN

    PUBLIC FINANCES
    • The way the EU has briefed against, bullied, and corralled, countries like Greece and Ireland is nothing short of scandalous | REU
    • UK already bailed out Eurozone (£20bn) sadly on the brink of another crisis – one that will cost us all dearly/probably be terminal for the EU | FT
    • Big business is using the ECJ to claw back billions of pounds of historic tax revenues. Remaining is about social solidarity and sustainability? | DM

    UK INDUSTRY
    • UK fishing receives just 21% of the funds that the EU sends to the Spanish, who pay in far less, and fish (our waters) far more | EUR
    • EU Common Fisheries Policy has cost an estimated 115,000 jobs, decimating British fishing/significantly degrading proud maritime history | TYO
    • CAP takes up half of EU budget, 80% goes to 25% of farmers, it’s wasteful, and harms farmers outside EU e.g. food dumping | EUR



    UK Trade
    It is impossible to be completely clear as to the precise impact of Brexit on trade; that is, except to say that when it comes to International Political Economy, and the quality of our diplomatic/economic personnel and institutions, the UK is very well placed to minimise related turbulence, and that - contrary to what the media has been telling us - there are plenty of respected Economists who have conducted detailed analyses and concluded that leaving would be in our economic interests e.g. Professors Minford and Congdon, Economists For Brexit, and Capital Economics

    TRADE POSITION
    • We are the 5th largest economy in the world, and are forecast to leapfrog Germany and Japan within a generation | TMS
    • Unlike Switzerland/Norway, we run a sizeable trade deficit with the EU (£120bn worth of goods) and are the biggest importer of EU goods | NIE
    • Top exporters to the EU: China, USA, etc trade rather freely, and prosperously, in the absence of membership of the customs union | EUR



    Free Movement
    INEQUALITY
    • Effect of free movement is effectively to drive down wages/employment T&Cs at the bottom, and to drive up bankers' bonuses at the top | GDN
    • The best and brightest Europeans have been emigrating en masse, worsening spatial deprivation by inflicting a 'brain drain' on the periphery
    • Our National Living Wage, whilst laudable, will further incentivise millions to travel to the UK, when income disparities are already huge

    SOCIETY
    • The sheer number, mobility, and patchy levels of integration of migrants is irrefutably causing societal friction and pressure on public services
    • It's clear that it has become increasingly difficult to secure affordable/social housing due, in large part, to related demand-side pressure | HSG
    • Roughly 50% of EU migrants return home within a decade but this churning thematic is linked to low English learning/integration | UoR

    SECURITY
    • EU’s European Court of Justice (ECJ) arbitrarily prevents barring/deportation of convicted criminals, terrorists, and unemployed migrants | BBC
    The Migrant Crisis is a shambles and the EU intends to fine member states a €250,000 per asylum seeker they refuse entry | BBC
    • Relatively unvetted non-EU migrants are being given EU residency/citizenship. We are unable to bar their entry, despite ISIS threat | REU



    Political/Legislative Issues
    THE EUROPEAN PROJECT
    • Jean Monnet (founding father of the EU): 'Common market will lead to unity and produce political union which is the goal' | NWE
    • President Jean Claude Juncker: "There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties" | BBC

    DEMOCRATIC DEFICIT
    • Democratically elected Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) cannot propose, initiate, or even repeal legislation | EUR
    • We are 1 voice in 28 (soon to be 35), and have only a tiny share (13%) of the all important EU Council of Ministers vote vs. "at top table" | FFT

    LOSS OF SOVEREIGNTY
    • A federalised United States of Europe and EU armed forces are very real prospects a la: 'ever closer union' and 'common defence' | EUR
    • The bulk of UK law is already heavily influenced by EU law - which is supreme, at any rate. Political unification will mean total submission | HoC

    LOSS OF DIGNITY
    • Surreptitious global (crony) capitalist deals like TTIP will eventually get passed vs. consumer/privacy/environmental standards and GovT sued | ZH
    • No control over massive EU migration has led to GovT squeezing other migrants, which is both iniquitous and to the detriment of our nation | GDN



    The Future EU
    REFORM
    • Ours is the first exit-referendum that the powers that be have failed to prevent in the 23 years the EU has technically been in existence
    • There is no appetite, need, or incentive for the EU to reform itself and if we remain in then the reform agenda will be completely dead and buried
    • Crippling effects of Eurozone suffocation/EU austerity on (youth) unemployment/welfare mean most Europeans are desperate for reform | EUR
    • Greece tried to use Democracy to effect change with a referendum; the EU rejected the will of the people and instigated regime change! | ZH

    SECURITY
    • Switzerland will not be sharing the security woes of the EU, having opted out of free movement (2014) and withdrawn EU application last week | DM
    • EU Com has agreed to award people travelling from Turkey visa free travel and essentially committed to fast-tracking Turkish membership | BBC
    • Other Eastern nations are also earmarked for accession - Bosnia, 'The Cradle of Modern Jihadism', recently submitted it's application | BBC
    • Cameron has stated that he wants these countries to join, and repeatedly refused to commit to vetoing Turkish membership on QT | BBC




    #VoteLeave: #BeLeave in Britain!

    • We regain control of our rights, borders, waters (fishing), waterways (reduce flood risk), transport, and can slash red tape
    • We end EU institutional supremacy, retake our seat at the Word Trade Organisation (WTO), and are free to spend our money on our priorities
    • We are free to foster a healthy new cooperative, free trade relationship with our European partners and meritocratic immigration
    • We set the scene for EU reform and can always mirror progressive EU trends in a way that suits our culture, society, and economy



    - - -

    It is important to note that whilst the above analysis represents an earnest attempt to convey the facts of the matter, we won't know for sure how anything will pan out until/unless we vote for real change. What is clear, however, is that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, that will affect the lives of every man, woman, and child of this country for generations to come. It's extremely important that we do not shirk this responsibility, or allow 'project fear' to determine our collective fate, and that us young people in particular put sentimentality and fairly deeply ingrained pro-EU propaganda to one side, and really stop and think about what it is we are being asked to decide

    Please share this information with as many people, on as many platforms, as possible. It's extremely important that we do our utmost to empower young people to make a truly informed decision, armed with all the facts, as this is the demographic that could swing the result either way!
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    tldr, and also i'll be doing an engineering degree. you know, people who work with facts, numbers, reality. unlike every brexiter ever
    Once again you're saying an accusation without providing fact or evidence, which is ironic given that you claim to work with them. Moreover, your attitude is also why so many people, especially the working classes, have become so alienated to the progressive left of British politics. Condescension is a very unattractive hallmark to acquire, and my point about you doing an arts degree was rhetoric; I was implying you're an idealist.

    Believe it or not, I am in support for Britain staying in the EU. However, people like you who use sensationalist and knee-jerk falsities to convey an argument do the Remain camp no good, and it's infuriating you that have the nerve to do so without shame or hesitation. Immigration is a poignant issue not just in the UK but throughout Europe; if you yourself are from a minority background then I understand that it might seem quite worrisome, but a failure for the left to recognise the scale and extent of mass immigration is why the right is rising so potently throughout Europe.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    Once again you're saying an accusation without providing fact or evidence, which is ironic given that you claim to work with them. Moreover, your attitude is also why so many people, especially the working classes, have become so alienated to the progressive left of British politics. Condescension is a very unattractive hallmark to acquire, and my point about you doing an arts degree was rhetoric; I implying you're an idealist.

    Believe it or not, I am in support for Britain staying in the EU. However, people like you who use sensationalist and knee-jerk falsities to convey an argument do the Remain camp no good, and it's infuriating you that have the nerve to do so without shame or hesitation. Immigration is a poignant issue not just in the UK but throughout Europe; if you yourself are from a minority background then I understand that it might seem quite worrisome, but a failure for the left to recognise the scale and extent of mass immigration is why the right is rising so potently throughout Europe.
    Why do I need to provide facts and evidence for the fact that Brexit is one huge joke? Watch any of Nigel Farage's or Michael Gove's speech; they will be plentiful.

    Also, calm down. You're the one being rude and condescending.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Why do I need to provide facts and evidence for the fact that Brexit is one huge joke? Watch any of Nigel Farage's or Michael Gove's speech; they will be plentiful.

    Also, calm down. You're the one being rude and condescending.
    You're hilarious.

    I'm being condescending and rude? You've just called the 43% of people who support Brexit one huge joke, not to mention your saying Brexit will lead to white supremacy and your referring to British colonialism. If calling you out for misappropriation and delusion is considered rude by you then you're going to get nowhere in life.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    You're hilarious.

    I'm being condescending and rude? You've just called the 43% of people who support Brexit one huge joke, not to mention your saying Brexit will lead to white supremacy and your referring to British colonialism. If calling you out for misappropriation and delusion is considered rude by you then you're going to get nowhere in life.
    Okay, but consider this:
    1. I don't care about anything that you are saying right now.
    2. We will remain in the EU because not all of us are off our rockers, so it's okay. Nothing you say will make a difference.
    3. Brexit is a joke; Brexiters are a joke; their principles are a joke; this referendum is a joke.

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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    Okay, but consider this:
    1. I don't care about anything that you are saying right now.
    2. We will remain in the EU because not all of us are off our rockers, so it's okay. Nothing you say will make a difference.
    3. Brexit is a joke; Brexiters are a joke; their principles are a joke; this referendum is a joke.

    Why are you addressing me like I'm a Brexiter? I literally said two posts ago that I support Britain being in the EU. You should become a politician, because one thing you never do is answer the question. The level of hypocrisy and contradiction in what you've said over the past few hours is comical.

    Best of luck to you.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    Why are you addressing me like I'm a Brexiter? I literally said two posts ago that I support Britain being in the EU. You should become a politician, because one thing you never do is answer the question.
    What was your question? Because from whatever I've had the misfortune of reading from your quotes, you just seem extremely butthurt and confrontational.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    What was your question? Because from whatever I've had the misfortune of reading from your quotes, you just seem extremely butthurt and confrontational.
    You said I was "being rude and confrontational", yet you called Brexiters a joke and yearned towards white supremacy and British colonialism.

    You said Switzerland was "more culturally rich", yet you provided no evidence and the evidence I did provide showed the complete contrary.

    You said you worked with "facts and numbers", yet you haven't provided a single fact or number in our entire debate.

    You said "we will remain in the EU", yet not a single opinion poll suggests that we will comfortably choose remain on the 23rd.

    You said "you've had the misfortune of reading my quotes", yet I haven't said anything controversial, misinformed or untrue.

    I am sick of the division in this country wherein more and more people are choosing to vote for the likes of UKIP. In the last election, over 50% of the demographic voted for a right-wing political party and far-right political movements are becoming evermore pertinent in European countries. The Justice Party in Austria (a far-right anti-Muslim establishment) was a few thousand votes away from winning the presidency. The AfD in Germany is the fastest growing party in the country, which again is highly critical of Muslims and immigration. The Front National in France is polling on around 30%, and the UMP is more than certainly going to win in 2017 led by either Sarkozy or another right-wing leader. All across Europe, even in countries like Sweden, neo-Nazi and far-right groups have more support than ever.

    The point I'm making is that it's saddening to see years of tolerance and social progress be diminished because people on the left, like you, who fail to recognise serious problems in our society and alienate core voters. I was calling you out for your misappropriation, and yes I am "butthurt", to use such a crude term, by people who are knowingly misinformed and hysterical.
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    (Original post by jake4198)
    You said I was "being rude and confrontational", yet you called Brexiters a joke and yearned towards white supremacy and British colonialism.

    You said Switzerland was "more culturally rich", yet you provided no evidence and the evidence I did provide showed the complete contrary.

    You said you worked with "facts and numbers", yet you haven't provided a single fact or number in our entire debate.

    You said "we will remain in the EU", yet not a single opinion poll suggests that we will comfortably choose remain on the 23rd.

    You said "you've had the misfortune of reading my quotes", yet I haven't said anything controversial, misinformed or untrue.

    I am sick of the division in this country wherein more and more people are choosing to vote for the likes of UKIP. In the last election, over 50% of the demographic voted for a right-wing political party and far-right political movements are becoming evermore pertinent in European countries. The Justice Party in Austria (a far-right anti-Muslim establishment) was a few thousand votes away from winning the presidency. The AfD in Germany is the fastest growing party in the country, which again is highly critical of Muslims and immigration. The Front National in France is polling on around 30%, and the UMP is more than certainly going to win in 2017 led by either Sarkozy or another right-wing leader. All across Europe, even in countries like Sweden, neo-Nazi and far-right groups have more support than ever.

    The point I'm making is that it's saddening to see years of tolerance and social progress be diminished because people on the left, like you, fail to recognise serious problems in our society and alienate core voters. I was calling you out for your misappropriation, and yes I am "butthurt" by people who are knowingly misinformed and hysterical.
    It seems that you think the posts of an 18 year old on TSR are causing alienation and having a direct effect on the rise of the right-wing. Do you have any evidence of this?
 
 
 
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