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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Cbb responding to you anymore because it appears you lack the basic analytical skills to understand relatively straightforward stuff. If you wish to point out where the Quran says it is a clear book, I will also point out that the Quran instructs you to also think and reflect, but it appears that you refuse to do that; or are you going too pull out another cracker and say that the Quran contradicts itself by saying it's clear and also to think and reflect on the verses? :rofl:
    Anyway, the Quran is easy but it also isn't idiot-proof.
    "If you wish to point out where the Quran says it is a clear book, I will also point out that the Quran instructs you to also think and reflect"

    Thinking and reflecting has nothing to do with anything we are saying because according to that verse, how are we sure those angels were actually sent from allah? How are we sure that they are actually allah's messangers since you're saying that's actually what the ayah means. If The Qur'an was so perfect and clear like it claims to be all these questions would be answered, but unfortunately they weren't.


    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    That last bit is not a contradiction and again you conflate a perceived scientific error with an internal contradiction. Either way all Muslims know and understand this verse to not literally mean setting in muddy water, rather only being the appearance thereof.

    May Allah guide you.
    I never said that was a contradiction, you said that you wouldn't have left your agnostic ways and embraced islam if it was really filled with flaws, and the verse i provided is an obvious flaw, refuting that statement you made. Nowhere did I ever say it was a contradiction.

    "
    Either way all Muslims know and understand this verse to not literally mean setting in muddy water, rather only being the appearance thereof."

    Hmmm, I guess that's why Muhammed said in this hadith exactly what was written in the Qur'an, are you now going to claim that you're a better authority of islam than muhammed? Because there's no way to re-interpret this as there was no context of time and place when Muhammed said this, it was just a test of his knowledge and prophethood, which he failed badly.

    Sunan Abu Dawud 3991—Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

    :rofl::rofl:



    I pray Jesus will guide you to the real light and you'll abandon this and embrace the true God.

    Thanks for your time.
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    (Original post by Angry Bird)
    any muslim that voted to leave is dumb, period.
    Why? What if they were British born and bred? See I don't buy into the ethos that all ethnic minorities should have voted remain, especially Muslims-who don't even have roots in an EU country. The "leave" camp weren't just demonising brown people/foreigners in general.
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    (Original post by Little Popcorns)
    Lol at Asian people on the tele earlier like 'it's the immigrants there's not enough jobs for people. The immigrants will take all the jobs' I'm like errr?? Where's that accent from then?
    LOL. Can't say I haven't been thinking the same

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    (Original post by Lord Samosa)
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    "xenophobia" is the term you gotta use with these guys, then they can't use the "Islam isn't a race" excuse :getmecoat:



    You'd be surprised, I know of ones who did
    Islamophilia is the polite way of being racist against white people.
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    Islam is at odds with our culture and values. It is the most difficult to integrate and this should be accepted. To be honest it wouldn't matter if it were Islam, Christianity or Buddism though. The real problem with Islam is the lack of moderation or self containment compared to other religions. I can't say whether the culture of origin or the ideology itself inhibits moderation. Either way it is a problem. Followers of Islam here on the whole far more devout collectively than any other group and have a far stronger group identity than many others. It is currently expansionist and domineering especially with what has been going on internationally.

    To some extent I think many attempts to integrate them have backfired. In some aspects a hands of approach is better. Labour launched a massive campaign of indoctrination and propaganda in mind to improve their image in the public conscious. This was cheap and artificial alienating many rationalists. It also succeeded in pandering to and stroking the ego of many Muslims. The religious hatred law was another serious infraction that again harmed the image of Muslims as it ultimately imposed their values on us and unhibited free speech.

    For those who leave the faith I imagine it can be difficult because of negative treatment on both sides. I don't know if leaving the EU will really have the effect you hope for. If not we may eventually be in for sectarian unrest.

    The thing is most aren't coming from the EU to my knowledge. It is a mixture of birthrates and immigration from across the world after Labour broke the immigration system. However with the way things are going with Merkel in the EU that could change.
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    Besides Allah you have NO protector nor helper
    Qur'an 2:107 and Qur'an 29:22

    "We are your protectors in this life and the Hereafter." Said the angels in Qur'an 41:31

    What a joke of a holy book :rofl:
    Look at the tafsir:
    (We have been your friends in the life of this world and are (so) in the Hereafter. ) means, the angels will say to the believers when death approaches: "We have been your friends, i.e., your close companions, in this world, protecting you and helping you by the command of Allah, and we will be with you in the Hereafter, keeping you from feeling lonely in your graves...

    Because of Allah we have this protection from angels. So in Christianity do you guys rely on beings other than and without acknowledgement of God/Jesus?
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    Look at the tafsir:
    (We have been your friends in the life of this world and are (so) in the Hereafter. ) means, the angels will say to the believers when death approaches: "We have been your friends, i.e., your close companions, in this world, protecting you and helping you by the command of Allah, and we will be with you in the Hereafter, keeping you from feeling lonely in your graves...

    Because of Allah we have this protection from angels. So in Christianity do you guys rely on beings other than and without acknowledgement of God/Jesus?
    Shouldn't the perfectly clear Qur'an have been perfectly clear about where the angel came from and specified that they were sent by allah and not on their own?

    There isn't a single verse in the Bible where Angels wouldn't say they came in the name of God, not One.
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    (Original post by Fantastic Fan)
    Shouldn't the perfectly clear Qur'an have been perfectly clear about where the angel came from and specified that they were sent by allah and not on their own?
    There isn't a single verse in the Bible where Angels wouldn't say they came in the name of God, not One.
    The angels have no free will. Hence the tafsir says "by the command of Allah".
 
 
 
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