The Commons Bar Mk XIII - MHoC Chat Thread

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    (Original post by Aph)
    Probably not accurate because each country has a limited number of people we can send but either way just one more reason for USE
    It also shows how much the EU depends on the UK for its position in the world.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    It also shows how much the EU depends on the UK for its position in the world.
    :toofunny: it's power comes from being a unified voice. I honestly don't get what people have (and had) against the EU. But I'm hoping May is smart and doesn't bring us out (rumours are that we won't trigger 50 next year too)
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    (Original post by Aph)
    :toofunny: it's power comes from being a unified voice. I honestly don't get what people have (and had) against the EU. But I'm hoping May is smart and doesn't bring us out (rumours are that we won't trigger 50 next year too)
    Yes because the smart thing is to ignore the democratic will of the people.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    :toofunny: it's power comes from being a unified voice. I honestly don't get what people have (and had) against the EU. But I'm hoping May is smart and doesn't bring us out (rumours are that we won't trigger 50 next year too)
    How about it's anti-democratic nature, its stifling of national sovereignty, its treatment of the southern Med states to name but a few problems. The EU, as I have always said, is an abomination and will hopefully be consigned to the dustbin of history. Everyone has accepted that we won't trigger article 50 until next year to allow us time to form our negotiating position. May will bring us out of the EU, of that I have no doubt, it is simply a matter of when she will do so.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Yes because the smart thing is to ignore the democratic will of the people.
    the leader of this nation should put their duty to the country above their career.

    (Original post by toronto353)
    How about it's anti-democratic nature, its stifling of national sovereignty, its treatment of the southern Med states to name but a few problems. The EU, as I have always said, is an abomination and will hopefully be consigned to the dustbin of history. Everyone has accepted that we won't trigger article 50 until next year to allow us time to form our negotiating position. May will bring us out of the EU, of that I have no doubt, it is simply a matter of when she will do so.
    Not anti-democratic. That's a myth.
    National sovereignty: 1) why is that important? 2) we 'stifle' Scotland's 'national sovereignty' and you don't whine.
    The med is to do with their failing economy's and the euro not the EU per se.

    I said she supposedly won't trigger next year either.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    the leader of this nation should put their duty to the country above their career.


    Not anti-democratic. That's a myth.
    National sovereignty: 1) why is that important? 2) we 'stifle' Scotland's 'national sovereignty' and you don't whine.
    The med is to do with their failing economy's and the euro not the EU per se.

    I said she supposedly won't trigger next year either.
    Yes and how is ignoring the people helping the country? Next time a election is due should she say actually we won't have one for the good of the country?
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    How about it's anti-democratic nature, its stifling of national sovereignty, its treatment of the southern Med states to name but a few problems. The EU, as I have always said, is an abomination and will hopefully be consigned to the dustbin of history. Everyone has accepted that we won't trigger article 50 until next year to allow us time to form our negotiating position. May will bring us out of the EU, of that I have no doubt, it is simply a matter of when she will do so.
    1) Anti-democratic nature. Sure, there are some elements of the EU which aren't perfectly democratic. However, in terms of potential for participation of the demos in legislation, it is significantly more democratic than the UK (before you say 'BUT COMMISSION' the Commission basically does what the CPS and lobby/advisory groups - both unelected - do in the UK).
    2) Stifling of national sovereignty - I don't see why this is valuable. Sovereignty is only instrumentally useful (creating law which is most relevant to the people concerned - and note, this is achieved in the EU through the Treaty-enshrined principle of subsidiarity), and it's a bit silly to claim that sovereignty is good in itself.
    3) Treatment of the southern Med states - I'm not happy with this either, but the problem was not the EU, but rather the global right's ideological commitment to austerity, and the influence that had on the ECB and the IMF (the same result would've been reached had the ECB not been involved). The euro is a failed project, and we will see states backing away from the euro, but that's not exactly relevant to the question of the EU for non-eurozone states.

    This is before we consider the huge benefits the EU brings (economic, free movement etc).
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Yes and how is ignoring the people helping the country? Next time a election is due should she say actually we won't have one for the good of the country?
    Because it's putting the good of the country above what people who understand very little want. And if an election is at a time where it wouldn't be good for the election to happen (at a time of war maybe) then yes.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Because it's putting the good of the country above what people who understand very little want. And if an election is at a time where it wouldn't be good for the election to happen (at a time of war maybe) then yes.
    So any pm should ignore the people and instead make sure only they can decide what happens.

    Who decides if it isn't a good time for an election to happen? If labour sort their problems and look like winning in 2020 could May just decide that the people you say understand very little voting labour wouldn't be best for the country and decide to keep power?
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Because it's putting the good of the country above what people who understand very little want. And if an election is at a time where it wouldn't be good for the election to happen (at a time of war maybe) then yes.
    Oh, god, I'd forgotten that you understand masses about everything.

    Are you basically saying that over half the population are idiots?
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Oh, god, I'd forgotten that you understand masses about everything.

    Are you basically saying that over half the population are idiots?
    I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things everyone is an idiot.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things everyone is an idiot.
    Are you planning on having children?
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Are you planning on having children?
    Why?

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    Because you say everyone is an idiot, I was just wondering if you do want children, are they going to be idiots?
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Because you say everyone is an idiot, I was just wondering if you do want children, are they going to be idiots?
    they'll have aph genes, so they'll be geniuses, duh
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Because you say everyone is an idiot, I was just wondering if you do want children, are they going to be idiots?
    You do understand when I say in the grand scheme of things we are all idiots I mean that any one person knows almost nothing compared to vast sum of knowledge available in the universe.

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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    they'll have aph genes, so they'll be geniuses, duh
    they'll or their'll ???
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Only in this ****ing country could our opening home game of the season be put into doubt by a severe weather warning for gale force winds... in the middle of August ffs.
    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    Yep, Tottenham.
    (Original post by Aph)
    Considering we get our fair share of bad weather we are woefully unprepared for any kind of unusual weather,
    Not just wind but proper rain (mostly we get drizzle, even in Manchester), half an inch of snow, or temperatures above 25 centigrade. We need to adapt to the realities of climate change, and support those developing countries who are and will be affected much more.
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Because you say everyone is an idiot, I was just wondering if you do want children, are they going to be idiots?
    Subscribing to the Rick Sanchez school of thought
 
 
 
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