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    (Original post by !!mentor!!)
    [spoiler]Becareful. That almost hurt my feelings.
    ...hmmm...feelings? What are feelings? Do feelings exist? Does existence exist?
    Philosonazis...discuss.



    Seems like they already have a full grasp of its potential.
    With these comments you've descended from pseudo-troll to full troll. Fine, stay closed-minded, bigoted and ignorant. Apparently it's bliss, I'm sure you'd know.
    Goodbye mentor

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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    With these comments you've descended from pseudo-troll to full troll. Fine, stay closed-minded, bigoted and ignorant. Apparently it's bliss, I'm sure you'd know.
    Goodbye mentor

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    You're leaving? Don't go. If you leave me alone in this thread I might begin to...

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

    ...f**k sh1t up!
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    (Original post by !!mentor!!)
    You're leaving? Don't go. If you leave me alone in this thread I might begin to...

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

    ...f**k sh1t up!
    I'm sorry Sunnysidesea. i shouldn't have done that. Here, let me fix everything.

    ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yeah, It seems like an interesting subject to study, if perhaps not economically viable for me.
    Honestly, it depends on the institution. Perhaps from a lesser university having job-specific skills are more important. Following this to the extreme you arrive at apprenticeships which have very job-specific learning with no institution at all. But at a top 20 institution, Philosophy is as economically viable as any other degree. It will equip you well for the world of business, finance, law, computing, academia, all sorts. But the best part is you get to enjoy a rewarding and dynamic subject, which covers the most intriguing questions of life, ethics, knowledge and reality. I sometimes wonder why STEM Nazis are so aggressive, and I think it's because they look across at their humanities counterparts, who not only have just as good prospects, but are also thoroughly enjoying their degrees too. At dinner parties, people always want to hear about what humanities students are studying, and they have great conversations about their work with all sorts of people. Science students? From what I see, not so much. The only time science comes up is when they talk to other science students, and even then it's pretty dry for all concerned. Want to have interesting things to talk about? Study Philosophy.

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    (Original post by TercioOfParma)
    Yeah, It seems like an interesting subject to study, if perhaps not economically viable for me.

    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    Honestly, it depends on the institution. Perhaps from a lesser university having job-specific skills are more important. Following this to the extreme you arrive at apprenticeships which have very job-specific learning with no institution at all. But at a top 20 institution, Philosophy is as economically viable as any other degree. It will equip you well for the world of business, finance, law, computing, academia, all sorts. But the best part is you get to enjoy a rewarding and dynamic subject, which covers the most intriguing questions of life, ethics, knowledge and reality. I sometimes wonder why STEM Nazis are so aggressive, and I think it's because they look across at their humanities counterparts, who not only have just as good prospects, but are also thoroughly enjoying their degrees too. At dinner parties, people always want to hear about what humanities students are studying, and they have great conversations about their work with all sorts of people. Science students? From what I see, not so much. The only time science comes up is when they talk to other science students, and even then it's pretty dry for all concerned. Want to have interesting things to talk about? Study Philosophy.

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    Tercio, you're better off with comp sci. It's a really cool subject. You ever watch star trek and seen an episode with the holodeck. We're beginning to make VR where you can actually touch the objects you see in the visor albeit wearing reactive special gloves. And i'm not talking about the gloves vibrating or some other nonsense like that that, I mean if you see a VR baseball bat and you pick it up, you will not be able to close your hand into a tight fist, there would be a gap where the bat would be. You would feel a cylindrical object as if it were there.
    You ever see the matrix and the 'lady in red' scene. Creating that has now come into the realms of possibility (if that's your thing). Wanna get laid without the hassle of going out, or the expense of hiring an escort (nothing wrong if you want to do that by the way)? Just create you're own. Be your own "digital pimp" as they say in the matrix.
    As mouse (in the matrix) said, "To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human".
    Mouse made a philosophical statement and what happened to him...he died. Do you want to die? No? So don't take philosophy.

    Software has taken over the world and is growing exponentially. All you do in philosophy is ask questions like "What is the colour of smell."

    If you read over this thread entirely this is the gist you'll get from the philosonazis:

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    (Original post by The Awakener)
    Never ! Hate the tories !!

    Probably will join Lib Dems or Labour if they survive the **** they're in.
    They ****ed us all and they don't know what to do now themselves.
    You know that Dodgy Dave did PPE right?
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    I wonder how this Mentor guy got into uni in the first place. I mean joke's on him, he wasted his time trolling us here while you got more people to read your thread.
    Don't be like be like mentor guys, if you have had daddy issues, tough childhood or couldn't account to much in life, go seek psychiatric help, trolling will not solve your mental issues.
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    (Original post by Dr Carlsberg)
    I really would like to study Philosophy at a Russel Group Uni, and the subject itself interests me enormously. However, over the summer I've read a couple of recommended Philosophy books (Descartes Meditations and J.S. Mill's Utilitarianism) to get a taste of the type of reading, and I find the books relatively difficult to read. By that, I mean the syntax in these types of books is really unusual, with lots of separated clauses and double negatives etc. Would anyone have any tips on how to best read Philosophical texts? Or is it just something that takes time to get your head around? Thanks!
    Get used to it I'm afraid. Philosophy is notorious for this kind of writing. Some contemporary philosophers might write better, but humanities in general are afflicted with a curse of terrible writing. When you get to postmodernism, it all descends into gibberish. Check out the "Sokal affair" for a good laugh about this.

    If you ask me, I think there is a kind of "if you don't have something to say, say it in as confusing a way as possible to make to sound clever" effect going on in parts of the humanities. You don't get away with this kind of nonsense in the sciences.


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    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    Get used to it I'm afraid. Philosophy is notorious for this kind of writing. Some contemporary philosophers might write better, but humanities in general are afflicted with a curse of terrible writing. When you get to postmodernism, it all descends into gibberish. Check out the "Sokal affair" for a good laugh about this.

    If you ask me, I think there is a kind of "if you don't have something to say, say it in as confusing a way as possible to make to sound clever" effect going on in parts of the humanities. You don't get away with this kind of nonsense in the sciences.


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    If we were to accept all this in its entirety, it would mean, if anything, that my points about the challenging nature of the subject, and its ability to hone interpretation skills, are truer than ever. Not only are the concepts involved complex and nebulous, but are obscured by confusing language. This requires some serious analytical skill to overcome, and as you point out, science students have it easy.

    But I don't think the situation is as you describe, and technical language which may seem at first inaccessible is used in almost all subjects for ease of writing. The academic texts aren't written for the general public, they're written for fellow scholars, who are perfectly capable of dismantling a weak argument whatever the language, be it technical or lucid.

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    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    Get used to it I'm afraid. Philosophy is notorious for this kind of writing. Some contemporary philosophers might write better, but humanities in general are afflicted with a curse of terrible writing. When you get to postmodernism, it all descends into gibberish. Check out the "Sokal affair" for a good laugh about this.

    If you ask me, I think there is a kind of "if you don't have something to say, say it in as confusing a way as possible to make to sound clever" effect going on in parts of the humanities. You don't get away with this kind of nonsense in the sciences.

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    I was genuinely going to leave this thread be, but I see my little princess trotski can't go a day without mentioning me. That's usually indicative of a beta (he probably should have tried the "Let's ignore him and he'll go away" method).
    You are absolutely right about philiosophy. It's just a bunch of people making nonsense ramblings. If you saw someone like that on the street they'd be locked up in a lunatic asylum.
    Philosophy is a waste of time. Even applied golf management studies students get to work in their chosen field. Philosophy students don't. There's a reason it usually these people serving me my morning coffee in starbucks.
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    technical language which may seem at first inaccessible is used in almost all subjects for ease of writing. The academic texts aren't written for the general public, they're written for fellow scholars, who are perfectly capable of dismantling a weak argument whatever the language, be it technical or lucid.
    Sometimes this is true, and philosophy is not always that bad. But have you actually read some postmodern stuff? Are you familiar with the Sokar affair (and it has been repeated since)?
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    (Original post by !!mentor!!)
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    I was genuinely going to leave this thread be, but I see my little princess trotski can't go a day without mentioning me. That's usually indicative of a beta (he probably should have tried the "Let's ignore him and he'll go away" method).
    You're absolutely right mentor. I did show beta behaviour and now I feel so bad that my masculinity has been threatened. I'd like to make up for it. Would like to hang my left testicle on your right earlobe like an earring ?
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    (Original post by TrotskyiteRebel)
    [/spoiler]You're absolutely right mentor. I did show beta behaviour and now I feel so bad that my masculinity has been threatened. I'd like to make up for it. Would like to hang my left testicle on your right earlobe like an earring ?
    You have testicles????

    What do guy's testicles taste like, by the way? You seem like the kind of person who would know.
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    (Original post by !!mentor!!)
    You have testicles????

    What do guy's testicles taste like, by the way? You seem like the kind of person who would know.
    Like yer mae
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    (Original post by TrotskyiteRebel)
    Like yer mae
    Eh? In inglush pleeze.
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    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    Agreed. Formal logic is basically maths. So your conclusion is that maths is a very hard and rigorous subject (especially at Oxford).
    Nope, the conclusion is that Philosophy students benefit from the same kind of training as maths students. But, crucially, this is just one aspect of Philosophy, so, if you like, Philosophy students get what Maths students have in addition to everything else.

    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    Many subjects do this.
    No, they don't. As you say yourself, 'Logic is basically maths'. The point was that Philosophy combines the best of quantitative subjects with the best of the humanities. For 'many subjects to do this', other humanities would have to contain modules on Logic. None do aside from, on occasion, Classics and therefore 'many subjects' do not do this.

    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    Not a single scientist in your list? Many scientists are a cut above those you list. Are you an anti-STEM nazi. :P
    This is a valid point, and many scientists are, of course, great minds also (though I haven't listed them because a Philosophy student has no need of studying them). Though, I would add, contemporary scientists seem far too arrogant for their own good. There's a reason Richard Dawkins isn't taken seriously by any academic whenever he strays from science, his Delusion book is a rambling, misinformed, bigoted disgrace (atheist philosophers, who felt he gave them a bad name, the first to agree).

    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    You're playing semantics again. "Science is great, science (and maths) used to be called philosophy, therefore philosophy is great". So why bother doing all the stuff philosophy students do and just do science or maths instead?
    The reason I mention science is merely to bring to light Philosophy's pivotal role in the formation of other subjects, something most people probably aren't aware of. As to why philosophy students do philosophy rather than science, how many reasons do you want? Here are five: they're skilled essay writers; they are interested in philosophical questions like 'what is truth?' or 'Is something beautiful because it gives us pleasure or does it give us pleasure because it is beautiful?', they enjoy the verbal discourse element of philosophy, they find science painfully dry and dull, or, as I say, they want to combine the best aspects of the arts with the sciences to become more complete intellectuals.

    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    The idea of falsification is very important but pretty easy to get. Please tell me what else scientists wouldn't be able to do without these philosophers? Also, I believe great science was done long before these people were born.
    Essentially you're asking me to distill the entirety of Philsophy of Science into a little paragraph. I don't want to make a mockery of it, so please do some reading of your own, perhaps starting with the wikipedia page:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science


    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    That must be why philosophy is so employable.
    Well, yes, actually. It is.
    http://www.salon.com/2013/07/01/be_e...sophy_partner/
    http://www.davidbain.org/teaching/em...sophy-students
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    (Original post by SunnysideSea)
    Snippity snip snip
    Hi. Nice avatar - Radiohead are one of my favourite bands

    What are your views on solipsism? Also, what are your views on nihilism?

    A nihilist is hard to define because one could be a moral nihilist but not a metaphysical nihilist etc. etc., but I happen to classify myself as a nihilist in many juicy things, including epistemology and hence one of the things I believe in is the denial of all knowledge - including the concept of the denial of all knowledge, because that itself is knowledge (a paradox I can live with). One of the reasons is that, linking to solipsism, our mind is the only thing that can be proved to exist.

    So my real question is: what's the point of thinking over things - of evaluating the credibility of ideologies in the face of how nothing can be known? In other words, why choose philosophy as a degree if everything is baseless? We are like creatures in the dark, desperate to cling onto things which cannot be proved - screaming out made up concepts and categorising ourselves. (I'm very much aware of the paradox I'm in - because I assume all of this - and that's being just as dogmatic and blind as the archetypal Christian.)

    Why do philosophy at all? Why not do something more subjectively fun like reading books?
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    I have a lot of respect for philosophers. I'm planning to read "Ihya ulumuddin" by Al-Ghazali soon.
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    (Original post by Kittyboy)
    Hi. Nice avatar - Radiohead are one of my favourite bands
    Haha thanks, what do you think of the new album? Though if you're a metaphysical nihilist, I'm not sure you can know it exists
    (Original post by Kittyboy)
    A nihilist is hard to define because one could be a moral nihilist but not a metaphysical nihilist etc. etc., but I happen to classify myself as a nihilist in many juicy things, including epistemology and hence one of the things I believe in is the denial of all knowledge - including the concept of the denial of all knowledge, because that itself is knowledge (a paradox I can live with). One of the reasons is that, linking to solipsism, our mind is the only thing that can be proved to exist....
    (I'm very much aware of the paradox I'm in - because I assume all of this - and that's being just as dogmatic and blind as the archetypal Christian.)
    I'm inclined to say that denial of knowledge is an untenable position. The statement 'nothing can be known' is inherently contradictory and self-defeating, and, I would add, nothing Christian is inherently contradictory in this way (though we can talk about that). The closest non self-defeating position you could take is somehthing like 'I can know only one thing, which is this thing, and nothing else besides'. But, then, that isn't true epistemological nihilism anymore...

    (Original post by Kittyboy)
    So my real question is: what's the point of thinking over things - of evaluating the credibility of ideologies in the face of how nothing can be known?...Why do philosophy at all? Why not do something more subjectively fun like reading books?
    Philosophy is mental masturbation. It's bloody fun. Many people prefer Philosophy to reading literature (though literature is perhaps the greatest depository of philosophy there is).

    People also have subjective reasons for exploring the universe, either through science, philosophy or theology. Any theist, remember, has reason to believe in objective truth, purpose and value, so there's a fairly limited market for die-hard nihilism.
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    (Original post by champ_mc99)
    I have a lot of respect for philosophers. I'm planning to read "Ihya ulumuddin" by Al-Ghazali soon.
    That's cool Haven't particularly come across Al-Ghazali before, aside from all the stuff on actual infinite sequences (mainly in the context of natural Theology). Let me know how that goes!
 
 
 
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