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    (Original post by DraculaMihawk)
    This is why attitudes about apprenticeships need to change. They need to be made more competitive so it's a viable option for school leavers to take. Funny isn't it, 30 years ago Apprenticeships were a lot more normal and accepted.
    I'm an international student. I'm not coming to the UK for an apprenticeship. I come to get a proper university degree and start working in the field that I like, in the UK, outside, wherever it is. The only thing holding be back into the Russell group unis are their tution fees. That's why I have to admit into the *****y ones, simply because they're cheaper. I have no other choice. If you can eliminate the backend unis, and make the good ones larger while decreasing the fees to match the *****y ones. But this will never happen.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    4 years? GCSEs and A Levels?

    Lulz.
    Yeah, what's funny? Going to a bloody English private school for 12 years and paying a crapload of money for it.
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    (Original post by DraculaMihawk)
    This is why attitudes about apprenticeships need to change. They need to be made more competitive so it's a viable option for school leavers to take. Funny isn't it, 30 years ago Apprenticeships were a lot more normal and accepted.
    30 years ago. 1986.

    Apprenticeships were all but non existent. The 80s were the time of the YTS.

    You need to go a LOT further back to a time when apprenticeships were common - and they weren't government subsidised. Private industry cut training I'm not following your logic that cutting opportunities for university based education will somehow revive that route. The current apprenticeship schemes with government subsidies are being used by private businesses to justify crap wages for basic training that they used to provide while paying minimum wage.

    If you want UK universities to get into the international top 100 then offering incentives for private business to invest in university based R&D (not massively attractive atm - either businesses don't get to keep the findings to themselves for a competitive advantage or the university doesn't get the publications and credit), increase QR funding substantially and lift international student and academic visas out of the immigration caps.

    Shutting down dozens of universities is NOT going to increase the international reputation of UK HE :indiff:
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Reduce number of students and you can afford to make university free again.
    There are approximately 250,000 students in Scotland, and only 15 universities. This is about 16,500 students per university.

    England has about 530,000 students, yet has 108 universities. This equals about 5000 students per university.

    And yet Scottish universities are free for Scottish students, and English universities are not.

    This is especially disappointing when you consider how much richer England is than Scotland.
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    (Original post by Fadel)
    I'm an international student. I'm not coming to the UK for an apprenticeship. I come to get a proper university degree and start working in the field that I like, in the UK, outside, wherever it is. The only thing holding be back into the Russell group unis are their tution fees. That's why I have to admit into the *****y ones, simply because they're cheaper. I have no other choice. If you can eliminate the backend unis, and make the good ones larger while decreasing the fees to match the *****y ones. But this will never happen.
    Which universities are cheaper? I know there's the very tiny college like institutes which award degrees and are cheaper but the vast majority charge £9000, that includes Russell Group, Redbrick and the ones op wants to take a fat steamy **** on
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    (Original post by DraculaMihawk)
    So we're in agreement, excellent. Blow up the lessor universities, like Canada did to their hospitals, and use the fundings they received to fund other access schemes and universities. Brilliant.
    Not quite, you're pretty misinformed on upper education in general, I don't know if your points are reinforced by ideology or are the result of poor analysis but hopefully by the time your Sec. of Education you'll be a lot more competent, still a step up from Gove and Nicky so it's not all gloom. Good luck mate.
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    (Original post by DraculaMihawk)
    Yes those departments can be transplanted if they are merged with already well established universities. If not keep them as vocational colleges and not universities and bring the fees down for courses like Media and Television studies. Like I said we keep alive the specialist departments that are useful and get rid of the useless courses if we have to.

    *Your *Naivety, and cool you were a prison officer, I've been in education my whole life and even tutored fellow students. I know what's it like to be at both sides of the spectrum and I'm going to work in the department of education when I finish university. I will 100% vouch for these ideas to be implemented and fight tooth and nail for it. Too many students feel trapped and are being deceived by these shambolic so called 'universities' with incredible amounts of debt.


    Attitude does play a key role. Yes serious reforms need to be made but our government is doing good so far. Law/Accountancy/Civil service apprenticeships are amazing.

    Aha, the last gasp of a desperate forum user, pointing out a spell check error.

    If you want to be a good civil servant you need to get to know the civilians you are serving, your plan seems rather confined to benefit only a very small number of people.

    The debt I find irrelevant, no-one will ever knock on my door and take my property because of this debt, it won't affect my credit file, the 'trap' is the perception of debt not the reality. I'm £49,000 in with a year to go and I know the alternative is a less than minimum wage job on a 0 hours contract.
    For a 16 hour day in domicile care I get £86 (if I'm lucky), that's being trapped. Students feel this way about debt because they have no comparison to make. I do and I'm telling you, I'd rather have student debt and minimal prospects than a 0 hours job with no prospects. Plus I have to wash a gypsy and clean thrushy vaginas at work where as I don't at uni. And that's what you need to do as a civil servant, make people's prospects better not cut them out.

    That's why I'm saying you need to get out of your room, do we need lawyers, accountants and civil servants?? No we don't these are some of the most studied for and oversubscribed professions.
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    University is no longer an advantage to have; it is a disadvantage not to have.
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    (Original post by Strawberry68)
    How disgusting and backward thinking. You want to deny thousands of people further education. Last time I checked education was a human right. Your idea will lower the UK average of how many have higher education as thousands more people won't be able to obtain a degree. This will make the UK look so much worse of a country.

    A lot of people don't even go to university in the first place.
    'Muh education is a human right'

    It is, until 16. Then it's further education. Entirely different thing.
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    There are approximately 250,000 students in Scotland, and only 15 universities. This is about 16,500 students per university.

    England has about 530,000 students, yet has 108 universities. This equals about 5000 students per university.

    And yet Scottish universities are free for Scottish students, and English universities are not.

    This is especially disappointing when you consider how much richer England is than Scotland.
    There are strict quotas on the numbers of government funded places for EU/Scottish students.. Your data includes literally ALL students out there and not just scottish domiciled and eu domiciled students. So no, it's nowhere near the level (per university) you're making it out to be.

    'Free' is also a bursary that goes towards a reduced fee of £1.8k a year.

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    (Original post by Fadel)
    Yeah, what's funny? Going to a bloody English private school for 12 years and paying a crapload of money for it.
    Thinking that GCSEs and A Levels are such hard work.
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    (Original post by Abstract_Prism)
    There are approximately 250,000 students in Scotland, and only 15 universities. This is about 16,500 students per university.

    England has about 530,000 students, yet has 108 universities. This equals about 5000 students per university.

    And yet Scottish universities are free for Scottish students, and English universities are not.

    This is especially disappointing when you consider how much richer England is than Scotland.
    I don't see what the students:universities ratio has to do with anything. Just means Scottish universities are bigger. Maybe in fact that explains some things, bigger = economies of scale = cheaper.
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    No Lmao, that's a terrible idea. People who aren't as strong as other people academically but have a drive to do something with their life shouldn't just be thrown out the window because they can't go to a "good" university.


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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Thinking that GCSEs and A Levels are such hard work.
    Woah, get a load of this guy.

    (Original post by yudothis)
    I assume she went at a time of no or little fees.But what if she went now, would she still be so happy a few years down the line with high debts? Is she working at all, and if so is a job that her "certificate" makes her better at?The problem with university is that it started out as an academic, intellectual endeavor. And sorry, but that is an endeavor that is not for half the population. But now it has been abused by companies as a signal. It is an easy way for them to judge applicants. In addition, it is touted as teaching you "valuable skills", complete rubbish if you ask me. What you do at university and what you do at work, are miles apart in vast majority of cases.And the UK is even worse in this regard. You can study history or chemistry and yet go into banking. What a ridiculous waste of time and resources. The bottom line is there are just too many university places. The government has wholly failed to provide alternatives and even promoted this societal view that getting a degree is a must because a grad job is all the matters.
    Don't get me wrong I'm not disagreeing, her degree was the most pointless thing ever.
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    I think marina summed it up succinctly: University is no longer an advantage to have; it is a disadvantage not to have.

    Many employers don't even care what your 2:1 is in now, so as long as you have one. I definitely would have agreed with you before 16/17 since my folks are old-fashioned and went on long and loudly about how they didn't need to go to uni.

    I can only talk as an average Joe with real world experience. Basically, I applied for jobs at 16 (some time ago) and the same mantra was relayed back to me: need experience to get experience. I had over 5 A-C grades, as they usually specify that to be the minimum, so that wasn't the issue. Now, my folks are from a different time, and back in their day you could have just left school, got a job and - the key thing here - train on the job. After years of retail, I finally felt like I had to jump on the bandwagon and go to uni. I haven't finished uni yet, but hopefully it will finally be enough to get me where I want to go (not giving away the degree subject or uni - I think it might be in the top 50. At least, it definitely was at one point).

    Maybe my situation was unfortunate, or I was somehow lacking in something that would have excelled me, but that's what happened and I feel although what you propose makes sense, it kind of comes across as boom, bang, job done.
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    (Original post by DraculaMihawk)
    I have never understood why suddenly it's everyone's God given right to go to university, I don't believe it is. I believe if you reach a certain standard of academic excellence, then you get to go to university, so a university degree is still something we aspire to. Nowadays we just hand out degrees like leaflets in the streets. They've lost their value.

    Just recently the top UK universities dropped down in ranking on the global top 100. To solve this we could get rid of all the universities outside of the top 50 and invest that money into our top 50 universities. Boosting the standards of those said universities.

    Anglia Ruskin, London Met and the likes are appalling institutions and are basically conning their students off £9000 a year. When videos like these are made by students:



    You know there is an issue.

    I say we should cull a huge tranche of the universities at the bottom, that are not meeting the standards and invest the money from that into our top 50 universities. Some of these universities are better off being vocational technical colleges and should be free or have lower tuition fees.
    Honestly?

    This is probably a good idea.

    But the existence of lower-ranked universities does provide some function, to be fair. I got decent A-level grades, but my house in East London is nowhere near a decent uni that does Journalism. So I go to a relatively crap one, because the nearest good one that I could get into (I'm not quite UCL material) is in Wembley. So there's that.
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    (Original post by RossB1702)
    No Lmao, that's a terrible idea. People who aren't as strong as other people academically but have a drive to do something with their life shouldn't just be thrown out the window because they can't go to a "good" university.


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    That is right. But it is a waste of time and resources to send them to an institution of higher learning. Granted, right now there are no better alternatives, but we are just saying there should be.
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    (Original post by DraculaMihawk)
    I have never understood why suddenly it's everyone's God given right to go to university, I don't believe it is. I believe if you reach a certain standard of academic excellence, then you get to go to university, so a university degree is still something we aspire to. Nowadays we just hand out degrees like leaflets in the streets. They've lost their value.

    Just recently the top UK universities dropped down in ranking on the global top 100. To solve this we could get rid of all the universities outside of the top 50 and invest that money into our top 50 universities. Boosting the standards of those said universities.

    Anglia Ruskin, London Met and the likes are appalling institutions and are basically conning their students off £9000 a year. When videos like these are made by students:



    You know there is an issue.

    I say we should cull a huge tranche of the universities at the bottom, that are not meeting the standards and invest the money from that into our top 50 universities. Some of these universities are better off being vocational technical colleges and should be free or have lower tuition fees.
    cos people bettering themselves offends you? cool....

    Many of these ex-polys do world class research, in physics, history, anthropology, etc.

    and learn to read the stats. only Cambridge fell, wow one uni has fallen, the sky is falling.... The UK has 71 unis in the index, more than France, Germany, probably only the USA has more posted. hyperbole aside, so much for *****y unis http://www.independent.co.uk/student...-a6991626.html
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    we need more people educated, since the world economy (not just UK every country) needs high-skilled people. i know he OP is offended, because he thinks uni gives him an air of superiority, or he's upper class, but the economy is better off when more people are skilled...you know it makes us richer and more competitive.
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    I agree somewhat (Even though I'm attending at a bad university - As far as the league tables go anyway) - At least the statement regarding they're practically handed out like leaflets.

    As for closing them, I don't agree with so much. Some of the lower ranked universities perform pretty well in some subject areas and prepare graduates pretty well for what they're likely to encounter in their desired field.

    I personally think they just need to be far more selective with who they accept. Not strictly from an academic accomplishment standpoint, but factoring in the drive and motivation to learn and succeed in their desired field. Not just accepting any old fool because they apply. In fact, the majority of my bad experiences pretty much narrow down to students with poor attitude rather than the difficulty of the curriculum. Though I guess the former impacts the latter somewhat
 
 
 
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