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Indian army crosses into Pakistan to attack terrorist targets Watch

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    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    There is no genocide except that which was done by Islamic militants.
    In the interests of balance, Modi is an absolute piece of trash. His actions and inactions during the 2002 Gujarat riots (or massacre) was an element in the subsequent large-scale deaths. There is no question Modi is an extreme Hindu nationalist of the most unpleasant kind.

    But he did not commit a genocide. His decisions were one of numerous causative factors that led to massacres of Muslims, and his modus operandi has always been to whip up the most primitive, sectarian hatreds for his own political benefit. Having said that, he doesn't seek to wipe out all Muslims, or a significant part of their number, or expel them from India. He's a piece of ****, but he's not a genocidal piece of ****.

    It's very unsettling that such a man is the Prime Minister of India when India is really now starting to make progress on some of its most intractable problems. But Kashmir issue can hardly be blamed on him; it long predated his premiership and pretty much all of the provocation comes from the extremist Islamic side.
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    FACTCHECK
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Obviously you don't understand what genocide means.
    "Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group." The killing was not an accident, it was a large number and they were all Palestinian. If the word fits, use it.
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    the Palestinian population has grown 8-fold since 1948.
    Palestinian territory population in 1948 = 1.2 million
    Palestinian population (including Israel)= 6.08 million
    That's five-fold, not eight.

    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Is the Philippines a good case to cite? There is a major Islamic insurgency in the south of the Philippines,
    Do your homework. The area to which you refer was a Muslim region which has tried to establish independence for 400 years. It was invaded by Christian Spain, then Christian USA and following mass settlement by Christian Philippinos the Muslims are now a minority in their own land. That's not an insurgency.
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Very few people were killed in the US invasion, and the number of civilians accidentally killed by US forces during the occupation was not a substantial part of the total. The largest part of the total was Muslims killing other Muslims.
    Any evidence for this at all? I couldn't find any from a reliable source. An academic study stated that death rates in Iraq had risen 50% due to the US invasion, and that the total deaths because of the war was 461,000. "The study concludes that more than 60% of the estimated 461,000 excess deaths were directly attributable to violence, with the rest associated with the collapse of infrastructure and other indirect causes. These include the failures of health, sanitation, transportation, communication and other systems." If you will only accept the US as being responsible for the deaths of people actually shot by its troops, rather than the actual consequences of the war, you are deliberately blind to the truth.
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    And nothing the US did forced Iraqis to go sectarian and start murdering each other in large numbers,
    You have chosen the word 'forced' deliberately, presumably to side-step the fact that the US coalition left a country with no government and a disbanded military. When a vacuum is created, it will be filled by something else.
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    And you can hardly blame Syria's civil war on the US.
    I didn't.
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    There's something in the Islamic mindset that just seems to love feeling like a martyr, feeling oppressed, feeling like they share this status with other Muslims in places they've never been and about which they know almost nothing.
    That may be your opinion, but you have offered no evidence for it. Explain to me how you know that "they know almost nothing". If you think that Gazans are feeling oppressed, try looking at the conditions under which they are living.
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    . all of this has contributed to a situation where there were more British Muslims fighting for ISIS than British Muslims in the UK Armed Forces.
    This wasn't true when Donald Trump claimed it either.
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/rea...h-muslims-isis
    Your contribution is therefore a combination of untruths, unsubstantiated opinion and equivocation. C for effort, E for attainment.
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    This has to be one of the most bitter discussions on TSR.
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    (Original post by Oxidation)
    WW3?
    USA, UK havde hit paksitan with airstrikes to take out islamist terrorists operating there ( USA over 3000) are they now war with each other.? Pakistan hitits onw blauochistan region with airstrikes too
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    India blames Pakistan without evidence to pacify domestic opinion. Can you show me any evidence? Remember the Samjhauta bombings? The one committed by a Hindu army captain and blamed immediately on Pak?

    What's your opinion on the Indians backing Baloch terrorists and the TTP in Pakistan? Something several federal ministers of the BJP have proudly admitted **
    possibly becuase paksitan have had islamist training camps that have supplied the world terrorists for decades, not just in kahsmir ( al queda, taliban, 7/7 bombers in uk fyi) and tried to deny it. so noone beleives the lies pakistan churn out anymore thats the point. the rest of the world are starting to realise only now the reality of what paksitan have been doing that india knew for the last 30 years
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    (Original post by Saba XD)
    That's how it is. You can't say that they don't. Same, as with Pakistanis take side of Pakistanis/Muslims take side of Muslims. You can't do it yourself and then call others out when they do the same.
    except when is muslim balouchis that pakistan airforce is bombing, or when shia mosques are being bombed bu pakistani based terrorists, then pakistanis dont take the side of muslims at all.
    its always the argument that suits at the time..
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    The Sikh Genocide, Kashmir, Shiv Sena, the growing power of the extreme right, the riots against the Christians of Orissa and the murder of hundreds of them a few years back.

    But yeah, there's no problem
    india is a country that is home to pretty much every religious group on the planet in mass - rare in these days and times so youd be an idiot to think there could and would not be dischord and dispute over land at some point in a nation of over a billion people. Look at paksitan, founded on islamist rhetoric, pretending to be a democracy and ethnically cleansing all those that dont succumb to (sunni) islamist dcotrines funded by the Saudi dirty money. sorry mate you are the last of peoples that can lecture onsocial cohesion - hindus are not the ones causing problems and terrorism all over the globe in every society they settle in
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    (Original post by Lit teacher)
    FACTCHECK
    "Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group." The killing was not an accident, it was a large number and they were all Palestinian. If the word fits, use it.
    You are clearly suffering from confusion on this matter. Obviously not having any sort of legal education, it is easy for you to fall into error (as you clearly have done here). But I shall try to school you to the extent you're capable of learning (or indeed willing)

    Genocide is not "the deliberate killing of a large group of people"; it is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group" , and there follows a list of relevant acts (killing members of the group, causing serious mental or bodily harm to the group, etc etc).

    The enumerated acts must be pursuant to a plan to "destroy, in whole or in part" the victim group, and in part means "a substantial part" of the group. No such Israeli plan to kill most or all of the Palestinians has ever existed. Thus no genocide has been committed.

    As for the killings being "not an accident", again your ignorance of international law is a major stumbling block for you to acquire a basic understanding of this topic. That a civilian dies an a military operation does not make it a war crime (let alone part of a genocide). It's often the case that hard leftists and their fellow travellers misunderstand the law of armed conflict, and believe that any civilian death renders the military operation unlawful. In fact, military operations may lead to civilian deaths where it is consistent with the principle of proportionality; that the means used are not excessive, that the military objective justifies the risk, and other things.

    So the fact that civilians die in the Gaza conflict in 2014 does not automatically signify a war crime (and definitely does not signify acts of genocide given the clear Israeli intention is to hit Hamas targets, not to kill most or all of the entire Palestinian people); each military operation is considered on its own merits. You will not be able to cite any Israeli policy the goal of which is to kill civilians for the sake of killing civilians.

    By the way, if you're going to pompously proclaim "Fact Check" at the beginning of your post, it's generally advisable that what you post is, in fact, true and not simply an exhibition of ignorance of international law and the law of armed conflict.

    TelAviv
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    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/54646883.cms

    Another army base attacked by infiltrators and one soldier killed :mad:
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    (Original post by sachinisgod)
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/54646883.cms

    Another army base attacked by infiltrators and one soldier killed :mad:
    Very unfortunate brother i feel like not 1 soldier but 1 billion of our people have been killed with him.
    I say why should it be our responsibility to say peace peace peace every time, we have suffered enough now
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    CORRECTIONS
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Genocide is not "the deliberate killing of a large group of people"; it is "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group" etc, etc
    You have chosen a purely legal definition of the term. I have not. If the strength of your argument relies on a narrow semantic definition you should perhaps make that clear in your first post.

    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    military operations may lead to civilian deaths where it is consistent with the principle of proportionality; that the means used are not excessive, that the military objective justifies the risk, and other things.
    2014 Gaza casualties:
    Israeli civilians killed by terrorist rockets = 7
    Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli Defence Force = 1,462 civilians, of whom 495 were children. That's a ratio of more than 200 to 1. Proportionality did you say?
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    You will not be able to cite any Israeli policy the goal of which is to kill civilians for the sake of killing civilians.
    For someone with apparent legal knowledge this is a remarkable defence. Because I personally cannot cite a policy this is not proof that such a policy does not exist. Whether or not a policy exists is irrelevant when looking at whether individual actions of the IDF are war crimes. The UN investigation found evidence of war crimes by both sides. Try researching the deliberate targeting of four children playing on a beach. If you wish to deflect criticism of your factually incorrect Islamophobia into a legal debate, bear in mind that Israeli settlements on Palestinian land are illegal under international law, as is its collective punishment of the entire population of Gaza and the use of white phosphorus in densely inhabited civilian areas.
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    By the way, if you're going to pompously proclaim "Fact Check" at the beginning of your post, it's generally advisable that what you post is, in fact, true .
    It was, every word. All you have done is try to alter the terms of the debate to now focus on legal semantics. The post on which I corrected you was not on a legal thread and at no point did you specify that you were only concerned with legal terminology.
    Must try harder.
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    "WASHINGTON: Statistics released by the World Bank this week show that both India and Pakistan face an uphill task in eradicating poverty, despite Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s claim that Islamabad needs to learn from New Delhi how to fight poverty.

    The World Bank report — “Poverty and Shared Prosperity” — places Pakistan among the countries where incomes of the poorest are growing faster than average. The poorest in Pakistan are slightly ahead of the four per cent national growth rate while China tops the list with a more than 8pc growth rate. Sri Lanka is also in this category.

    India is placed among the countries where incomes of the poorest are growing slower than average, although it has one of the world’s fastest growing economies.

    Editorial: Poverty in nuclear South Asia

    Overall, the statistics show that while in some fields India is doing better than Pakistan, in others Pakistan is ahead.

    The data shows that as many as 21.25pc Indians live at or below the World Bank’s poverty line of $1.90 a day compared to 8.3pc in Pakistan.

    And 58pc Indians make $3.10 a day, compared to 45pc in Pakistan.

    Although the bank hopes that Bangladesh can overcome its poverty by 2030 if it continued its robust economic reforms, the statistics show that 43.7pc Bangladeshis continue to live at or below $1.90 while 77.6pc live at $3.10 a day."

    The Indians on here really have to take their finger out and realise that India is not some kind of hyper super ultra power. It faces similar problems to Pakistan, sometimes more. The majority of its population live in poverty and according to a BBC report 53% defecate in public.

    As far as this evidently pathetic claim of a surgical strike goes, it never happened- that much has been hinted at by several defence officials, Modi himself and Kerjiwal. This is a ploy for Modi to maintain domestic popularity through being tough with Pakistan and for Nawaz Sharif also to present himself as a strong leader by responding strongly to Indian aggression.

    It's a BS drama and it's happened almost every year for the past 2 decades. Jingoistic as my previous posts may have been, I can't believe so many still fall for it.
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    Yup. I read that too. But Pakistan (apparently) deny any such attack on the terrorist camps which they claim doesn't exist. They are seriously becoming a threat.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    "WASHINGTON: Statistics released by the World Bank this week show that both India and Pakistan face an uphill task in eradicating poverty, despite Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s claim that Islamabad needs to learn from New Delhi how to fight poverty.

    The World Bank report — “Poverty and Shared Prosperity” — places Pakistan among the countries where incomes of the poorest are growing faster than average. The poorest in Pakistan are slightly ahead of the four per cent national growth rate while China tops the list with a more than 8pc growth rate. Sri Lanka is also in this category.

    India is placed among the countries where incomes of the poorest are growing slower than average, although it has one of the world’s fastest growing economies.

    Editorial: Poverty in nuclear South Asia

    Overall, the statistics show that while in some fields India is doing better than Pakistan, in others Pakistan is ahead.

    The data shows that as many as 21.25pc Indians live at or below the World Bank’s poverty line of $1.90 a day compared to 8.3pc in Pakistan.

    And 58pc Indians make $3.10 a day, compared to 45pc in Pakistan.

    Although the bank hopes that Bangladesh can overcome its poverty by 2030 if it continued its robust economic reforms, the statistics show that 43.7pc Bangladeshis continue to live at or below $1.90 while 77.6pc live at $3.10 a day."

    The Indians on here really have to take their finger out and realise that India is not some kind of hyper super ultra power. It faces similar problems to Pakistan, sometimes more. The majority of its population live in poverty and according to a BBC report 53% defecate in public.

    As far as this evidently pathetic claim of a surgical strike goes, it never happened- that much has been hinted at by several defence officials, Modi himself and Kerjiwal. This is a ploy for Modi to maintain domestic popularity through being tough with Pakistan and for Nawaz Sharif also to present himself as a strong leader by responding strongly to Indian aggression.

    It's a BS drama and it's happened almost every year for the past 2 decades. Jingoistic as my previous posts may have been, I can't believe so many still fall for it.
    pakistan is 3rd only to Syria and afganistan in the world in terms of recieving foreign aid, which im sure helps boosting the wages you are talking bout - aid is not a sustainable source of income as it is not indefinate.

    whereas as india still suffers the same problems as pakistna in terms of signficant populations of poverty and internal corruption - it has spent the last 30 years building a sustainable economy to try power its way out of this, in exactly the same way the west did hundred years before. so it has a way out at some point. pakistan spent last 30 years trying to fund a proxy war by paying terrorists and arms dealers - while letting its brainwashed citizens to starve and eventually become the victims of their homegrown islamist network. Lets not forget pakistan regions before partition ( ie when there where millions of hindus sikhs and christians there) was a prosperous region. Having become an islamic military state, it has become a cess pit where only the ultra rich politicians, generals and islamists have any future, and that is only as long as their propaganda machine can maintain the brainwashing of its subjects.
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    (Original post by Chakede)
    pakistan is 3rd only to Syria and afganistan in the world in terms of recieving foreign aid, which im sure helps boosting the wages you are talking bout - aid is not a sustainable source of income as it is not indefinate.

    whereas as india still suffers the same problems as pakistna in terms of signficant populations of poverty and internal corruption - it has spent the last 30 years building a sustainable economy to try power its way out of this, in exactly the same way the west did hundred years before. so it has a way out at some point. pakistan spent last 30 years trying to fund a proxy war by paying terrorists and arms dealers - while letting its brainwashed citizens to starve and eventually become the victims of their homegrown islamist network. Lets not forget pakistan regions before partition ( ie when there where millions of hindus sikhs and christians there) was a prosperous region. Having become an islamic military state, it has become a cess pit where only the ultra rich politicians, generals and islamists have any future, and that is only as long as their propaganda machine can maintain the brainwashing of its subjects.
    You are well and truly delusional. Clearly you have never been to Punjab nor Karachi. Hindustan Times isn't a very good source

    I encourage everyone to have a look at English language Pakistani/Indian newspapers and make a comparison. It's really quite interesting.

    The aid given by the Americans is based on our operations against terrorists (funded by the Indians and the Afghans) on the North West border. Look up operation Zarb-e-Azb- the army has cleaned up. Unlike yours which lost 18 of it's soldiers to 4 rag tag fighters attacking an apparently well defended military base.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    You are well and truly delusional. Clearly you have never been to Punjab nor Karachi. Hindustan Times isn't a very good source

    I encourage everyone to have a look at English language Pakistani/Indian newspapers and make a comparison. It's really quite interesting.
    i have been to punjab many times on both sides of border, also read news papaers thank you. perhaps you werent aware paksitan is still one of the biggest recipents of handouts - certainly the foreign aid uk gives pakistan is more than it has to any other. this kind of flies int he face of your theory. if india is one of the biggest economies in asia, pakistan is one of the weakest - it doesnt take rocket sicence wheny ou think of major pakistani industries you sracth your head. if you ask anyone what pakistan is famous for , the answer you getting is its exporting of islamist terrorism. This are changing slowly in paksitanis more modern, younger egenration but they have no real voice.there will need a massive attitude change in that country for it to change in its path, not just in its poltiicians but amoung brainwhased pakistanis like your generation that sit in denial with your fingers in your ears
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)

    The aid given by the Americans is based on our operations against terrorists (funded by the Indians and the Afghans) on the North West border. Look up operation Zarb-e-Azb- the army has cleaned up. Unlike yours which lost 18 of it's soldiers to 4 rag tag fighters attacking an apparently well defended military base.
    'rag tag fighters' funded by billions paksitani funnelled aid plus saudi jihadi funds - attacking soliders in barracks while they slept . it has all the hallmarks of the atypical cowardly islamist. again pakistan waging the proxy war when the convential form cannot be won - they were happy to fund train bomber,s school kid killers and fanatics for decades.
    perhaps you can advise how same homegrown 'ragtags ' could pakistanis biggest miliary base Mehran, or peshwar airbase, or army school. these are not rag tags at all, but highly funded trained and protected scumbags within paksitani society, the fact you are still trying to spoin tha same dumb denial line that was old hat in the 1990s let alone now when usa, afganistan, bangladesh, uk, and CFR etc etc have all outed pakistans real activites. to add interpol reguarly arrest terrorists that have links to paksitani terrorist campe, not alone islamists but even pro khalistani militants that pakistan is happy to provide arms to.

    you are sitting on the top of the pile of delusionists if you think the world has not come to know the full nature of pakistanis role in global terrorism, let alone in kashmir
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    (Original post by Chakede)
    i have been to punjab many times on both sides of border, also read news papaers thank you. perhaps you werent aware paksitan is still one of the biggest recipents of handouts - certainly the foreign aid uk gives pakistan is more than it has to any other. this kind of flies int he face of your theory. if india is one of the biggest economies in asia, pakistan is one of the weakest - it doesnt take rocket sicence wheny ou think of major pakistani industries you sracth your head. if you ask anyone what pakistan is famous for , the answer you getting is its exporting of islamist terrorism. This are changing slowly in paksitanis more modern, younger egenration but they have no real voice.there will need a massive attitude change in that country for it to change in its path, not just in its poltiicians but amoung brainwhased pakistanis like your generation that sit in denial with your fingers in your ears
    Very true

    When i think of Industry in India the first words that come to my mind are Tata, Reliance,Hindko-Birla,ONGC, Bharti Mittal, Infosis, Wipro, Mahindra , Tata Jaguar-Landrover
    When i think of Industry in Pakistan the best i can think of is Geo News or imagine Generals manufacturing and supplying hasheesh at best

    I looked up the stats online and there are 7 Indian Companies in the Fortune 500 companies list while there is none that is Pakistani. Even in the list of Fortune 2000 companies there is only one company that is from Pakistan, while the number of Indian companies is infinite

    Total foreign exchange reserves(excluding gold) of Pakistan = 23. 40,bn$ (2014)
    Total Foreign exchange reserves(Excluding gold) of India = 371.5, bn$ (2014)
    Current Exchange rates
    Us$ to Pakistan rupee= 104.40
    Us$ to Indian rupee = 66.00

    No wonder due to Pakistans Jihadi image not a lot of foreign companies want to deal with it, hence that explains the foreign exchange reserves and non existent FDI

    Lets look at the GDPs (FY 2015-16)
    India-
    GDP(PPP) = 8.64 trillion $( 3rd largest in the world)
    GDP(Nominal) = 2.29 trillion $( 7th largest in the world)
    Pakistan-
    GDP(PPP)= 982 Billion $(25th)
    GDP(Nominal)= 285 Billion $ (38th)

    Exports -
    Pakistan - 30 billion $( 2014)
    India - 477.1 Billion $ (2014)

    Growth rate % FY 2015-16
    India - 7.6% (Highest in the world right now)
    Pakistan - 4.5 %
    More(Massive number) people are coming out of poverty every year because of this fast paced growth


    I would also like to point out that more than 60% of Pakistans GDP is made up of debt/loans by IMF, World bank etc and that is a very risky situation to be in

    According to Transparency International's
    Corruption index-
    India- 76th (Chinas rank being 83)
    Pakistan - 126

    Soo clearly Pakistans economy is extremely small as compaired to India. The Indian economy is a Giant and Pakistan is no where near it.
    It is high time and unless Pakistan wants its economy to crumble , go bankrupt in the coming years, it needs to make serious reforms and stabilize itself

    Indeed the US has to "pay" them(Pak military) to fight, they cant even finance their militaries operations

    Lets look at the defence budgets as estimated by Stockholm International Peace Research Institute report of 2015
    India - 53.3 billion $ ( 6th largest, 2.0% of the GDP)
    Pakistan- 7.6 billion $( ranked 25th, 3.5 % of the GDP)
    So again very meager as compaired to India
    Imagine if India like Pakistan spent 3.5% of the GDP on defence, the defence spending would have been around 90 billion US$

    It should also be noted that around 700-900 million of the Pakistani defence budget comes from direct US aid and a lot more comes indirectly by contracts, infrastructure projects, subsidies etc

    Pakistan and Pakistans economy just cant be compaired with India, it(Pak economy) is nonexistent infront of the Indian economy to be quite frank and clear

    Meanwhile Nawaz Sharifs corrupt activities have been exposed in the Panama papers leak

    Sources used (websites)-
    Transparency International, Wikipedia, IMF, Forbes
 
 
 
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