Sarky
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#161
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#161
Most black people i know don't use the slavery card, and those that do are idiots. There is a difference in opportunities for a lot of black people, and that breeds resentment. In some cases it holds people back because they use it as an excuse for their sort comings.

I went to **** schools. My secondary school was on special measures and is being turned into an academy unfortunately. I still got relatively good grades and got into medicine. I was lucky to benefit from a scheme that used widening access. It wasn't based on race at all, but i met the criteria in other areas and haven't looked back since. I would hate to be given anything just because i'm black, and being black hasn't stopped me from doing what i want to do.
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#162
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#162
I think people forget that slavery in the USA ended relatively recently. My husbands great grandfather was born a slave, his son my husbands grandfather was born into difficult times. Admittedly they seem to have become parents relatively older than many people as for other black people it could be two or three generations further back. However, it makes you think doesn't it? Have you ever listened to stories from grandparents or great grandparents, well the stories he grew up with did involve slavery, it was an important part of his family history. Similarly I remember my grandparents telling me the stories of the Irish Potato Famine which they heard as children from survivors. It makes it seem recent and somehow much more real than history books, it touches you. Doesn't mean you should play the race card but may make it more understandable.
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CorpusNinja
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#163
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#163
A lighter take on the whole issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Wy_xRHJd4
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hey1990
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#164
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#164
(Original post by cascadingstylez)
Anything within this post is not aimed at being in any way racist.

The question is: Should African's be able to call the Slavery card?

I understand what went on years ago but in all fairness its a totally different generation. None of us in todays world are to blame for what happened, so why do the young, British-African people (and ive herd Jamaicans say it) say that White people are to blame for the way Africans and Jamaicans are treated.

Discrimination exists everywhere and in many different forms. I just feel that African people always have that excuse to back them up in any case.

It angers me in a way. If people were to hold a grudge then Germans including myself (my family is German) would not be living in this country because of fear of persecution.

I think people should understand their past generations, but should not bring up something that they never experienced.

Parts of my family were killed in the German army, should i blame the British and forever hold it against them? No because that was then, this is now.

I know people will have mixed comments on this. Please don't involve aggression, as this is an open debate.

Peace.
Should African's be able to call the Slavery card?
NO

this forum is strictly for my bruvas.
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#165
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#165
(Original post by Bismarck)
It ended over 140 years ago...
But for my father in law it was his grandfather so not in living memory but my father in law talked to his grandfather about it and he could remember it. You probably talk to your grandfather about his experiences. Its not ancient history is it?
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CorpusNinja
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#166
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#166
And racism has only relatively recently been 'stamped out' (supposedly), which was more a mental continuation of the slavery era attitudes. We're talking about 50 years ago.
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#167
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#167
(Original post by Bismarck)
Your father-in-law's grandfather would have to have been born before 1850 (I doubt he'd remember slavery if he was under 10 at the time it was abolished). Given a generous 30 years for each generation, your father-in-law would have to have been born in 1910. I find that hard to believe.
I have a friend of 17, her father is in his 70s. I did actually say that they seemed to have a trend in his family of late fatherhood.
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Rusty33
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#168
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#168
I blame Spain. If they don't kill off 17 million Native Americans, we're not having this discussion. Viva wtf.
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Rusty33
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#169
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#169
(Original post by Bismarck)
People's life expectancy was well under 50 last century (closer to 30 for blacks). And let's be honest here, even if your case is true, which I doubt, how many other people does it apply to? 001% of African-American population?
I have a friend who WAS A SLAVE.
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#170
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#170
(Original post by Bismarck)
People's life expectancy was well under 50 last century (closer to 30 for blacks). And let's be honest here, even if your case is true, which I doubt, how many other people does it apply to? 001% of African-American population?
Again if you read my original post I said in many families you could add a generation or two, I don't see your problem to be honest. I was just illustrating that it isn't actually that long ago. By the way I'm not lying why on earth would I? If you think about my friend of 17 her dad is well in his 70's so was probably born in say early 1930's, if his father was also a later comer to fatherhood he would have been born in 1870. Sorry I had to edit that as my maths went wrong.
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#171
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#171
(Original post by Bismarck)
People didn't live that long in the 19th century, let alone had kids at that age. A vast majority of former slaves would have died by the early 20th century, so to say that a large amount of African-Americans are directly affected by slavery is silly.
Did I say a large amount of African-Americans are directly affected by slavery? Actually the great grandfather in question did live to a ripe old age and had a very remarkable life but that is another story.
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#172
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#172
(Original post by Bismarck)
People didn't live that long in the 19th century, let alone had kids at that age. A vast majority of former slaves would have died by the early 20th century, so to say that a large amount of African-Americans are directly affected by slavery is silly.
Here is an interesting link http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/wpa/index.html you will see details of former slaves who lived into their 80s 90s and ever past 100, not common I suppose but not impossible.
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#173
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#173
(Original post by Bismarck)
Once again, you're talking about a dozen people. There are about 35 million African-Americans. Even if by some amazing luck, 3,500 of them knew former slaves, that would be 0.01%.
OK but you doubted I was telling the truth as you believed the man in question would have died young, I gave you the link to confirm that some former slaves lived into old age. The point I was making wasn't that lots of people who are still alive knew former slaves but that some people who are alive now did know former slaves, it was an illustration that in human terms its not that long ago so one person would prove the point. I'm not sure if I'm not being clear or you just don't want to accept it but either way just look at it like this; if you are 18 for arguments sake when you were ten in 2000 you could have looked at a relative who was born in 1930, 70 years old so not unreasonable, in his childhood he could have looked at another 70 year old who was born a slave. That isn't really along time in human history is it?
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#174
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#174
(Original post by Bismarck)
There are people who are over 110 years old, but if you told me your father was that old, I'd have reason to doubt you. Just because there are a handful of slaves who lived that long, doesn't mean that people here would be related to them. Let's be realistic here. A vast majority of former slaves would have died by 1910-1920, and a vast majority of the people who knew those former slaves would have died by 1980 or so (just look at life expectancy statistics for blacks).
You never reply to the point I am making about it not being that long ago. By the way I didn't say he was a slave in North America, for him it ended about 20 years later as far as I know. I certainly never claimed my father was 110, in fact my father died in his 40's.
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dee.paul
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#175
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#175
Sorry I may be a bit late with this reply


OMG! I come back from college and just read some of the posts, and this post has ended up the way i didn't want it to.

Basically what i first posted about exists, its clear from the amount of people that agree. I sat in college today and talked about this with an African friend and we had a good 'friendly' debate. He also agreed that its history, and should be kept that way.
Afterall it wasn't me, or the next white man that treated Africans as slaves was it? So why even bring it up?

And don't try and say Black people have less chances in life. Thats Bull! I did stuff that most people on here would hate me for, i was involved in a gang but now im an A grade student ..... and it didn't happen because im white, it happened because i wanted it to.

Black people push themselves into a courner by calling the slavery card or the racist card, they admit to being bullied by other races still to this day.

Like i said, discrimination happens in so many forms, race, gender, disability, age, sex blah blah blah. You know what, it will NEVER stop, devils walk the earth. Only way past it is stop bringing it up and crying about it and get on with life the way you want to live it.

My stepdad is Jamaican, my little brother is mixed race, i have talked to him over and over about this. My little bro constantly asks me why he is a different colour and how he wishes to be like me, its upsetting. A boy threw sand in his face because he was different. I know first hand what racism is like.

The end of the day, like i said, nothing will change, the devil lives You can either face up to it, and get on with life or cower down and get walked over. That goes for ANY form of discrimination.

You cant go round saying "But its because my ancestors were slaves for the white people".

Pathetic.


I hope your are not using the fact that your stepdad is a jamaican as a justification for your views. You do not know what racism is first hand just because ur step bro experienced it.
I agree with you that some black youths do not help their situation by getting involved in gun culture and so on.

But what would you say to those black people who have risen to high ranks in their careers (law, medicine etc.)

Many peolpe may not think that racism or discrimination (whatever you want to call it) is present in Britain, because we see black singers and sports men and women plastered all over the media. This can sometimes give the misguided view that black peolpe are accepted in all areas or society. Not True.

I have examples of family friends who face barriers in their professions. Why? the answer is not 100% clear, but these are not lazy, confrontational or unproductive workers. Another reason may be because their collegues do not expect to see them in these positons, or believe in some way they are undeserving. These collegues may not be "BNP" racist but may feel different towards the black collegue, the black collegue who doesnt fit the present stereotype surrounding black people. In addition there is not a high number of black people in these positions to remove such stererotypes.

The root of the problem believe it or not does come from slavery (although I as a black person do not allow the legacies of slavery to hold back my progress). Especially in Britain, many of the gun-toting youths are 1st and 2nd generation children who are members of families which have just recently migrated to England from the Caribbean in the 1960s. In those days as my gran often tells me (I am 16 she is in her 70s) it was not easy to gain financial stability. Racism was still present, racism which was product of slavery. Accomodtion was not easy to come by (due to racist attitudes) - Allocation of housing has given rise to "problem areas" which still exist, breeding the depression and violence we witness today. Ultimately gradual progress can only be from generation to generation. My father is lucky enough to have a good job in a trade, however he did not have the opportunity to go to uni, the same can be said for many others in his position. he had to drop out of school to support his mum and his siblings.

Anyway I agree with the main argument "Africans and black peolpe should not use the slavery card as an excuse for their lack of effort/progress". But many people still dont know that discrimination or racism exists in various forms that are not blatantly obvious and are in some way restricting the progress of those black peolpe who attempting to make life better for themselves.
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dee.paul
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#176
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#176
To the person who said "the number of white people who died trying to end slavery makes up for the number of black people who died".

Your aren't serious

I think you should go and read a text book or something before you join this debate
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DrunkHamster
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#177
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#177
(Original post by Bismarck)
I don't think too many countries outlawed slavery after the US (other than some African countries that still have it).
Saudi Arabia, 1962 if I remember correctly.
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#178
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#178
(Original post by Bismarck)
He must have been Brazilian then. I don't think too many countries outlawed slavery after the US (other than some African countries that still have it). I believe Brazil ended slavery in the 1880s.
Brazil and Cuba I think.
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#179
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#179
(Original post by Bismarck)
True. Then again, the people who talk about slavery here usually don't direct their ire at Cuba and Brazil.
True but he went to USA and then Canada so his son and grandson were born in USA, Canada and then his greatgrandson here. You wouldn't know where his greatgrandad came from if you met him.
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#180
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#180
(Original post by Bismarck)
You can't really compare the slave conditions in the US with those in Cuba and Brazil though (especially Cuba). I wouldn't want to be a slave in the US, and it was a harsh existence, but American slaves did tend to live a full life. In the Caribbean, most slaves died within 3 years.
Well I suppose he was lucky to be emancipated young and then moved to Canada, eventually, which was a friendlier environment. Horrific when you think of the people still in slavery.
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