The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2009 Watch

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Paulwhy
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#161
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#161
(Original post by Krazysheep)
Ok, didn't realise it was only straight economics, sorry about that.
The course typical offers are (nearly all) for just straight econ:
Which courses are selected?
Nearly all courses are straight economics (L100 and a few L101s) except:
Oxford it is Economics and Management
Glasgow is L150.
whilst the tariffs come from all economics courses:
What do the 3 digit numbers refer to?The 3 digit number is the average UCAS tariff score of 1st year undergraduates for 2006/7 from the Times table. This figure may well include some joint degrees. i.e. not just straight economics. Hence it may under-estimate the true level
Hence the discussion on this point in the early posts in this thread.
(Original post by Krazysheep)
The chances are I'll only be taking the Critical Thinking test next year (we won't be having many or indeed any lessons next year) so I guess I might as well go for it and not worry too much about it. Thanks for the advice.
If you can do it at low cost then it makes more sense to do it.
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peachmelba
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#162
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#162
As a non-economist, I am deeply impressed by all this.

At last proof that some prospective students engage in rational decision making, although it does remind me of reading about some game theory testing that showed the only people who consistently made rational choices were economists... and psychopaths.
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Paulwhy
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#163
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#163
(Original post by peachmelba)
As a non-economist, I am deeply impressed by all this.
At last proof that some prospective students engage in rational decision making, although it does remind me of reading about some game theory testing that showed the only people who consistently made rational choices were economists... and psychopaths.
I did this because a lot of economics applicants seemed to me to make deeply irrational choices. So I guess I come to the issue from a different perspective. But yes I certainly believe it is possible to make rational uni choices. And the info sources I use (primarily UCAS for typical offers, The Times Econ table for mean tariifs and unistat for tariff distributions) are available for all other subjects. So the same project would be just as feasible for other subjects.
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sv90
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#164
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#164
Assuming a competent personal statement, how far do you have to be above the average tariff points for a uni to be 'reasonably sure' of getting in? (or in reverse also, how far below the average do you have to be reasonably sure you won't get in?)

Or is there simply no easy answer and it just depends on a whole variety of factors?

I ask because it'll make my selections easier if for example I know I should definitely be able to get into a uni with X tariff points (don't want to 'waste' one of my choices on an insurance which is too low for example).
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Paulwhy
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#165
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#165
sv90, as your questions were about uni applications I have answered you here:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...0#post14267150
Hope that is ok.
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Paulwhy
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#166
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#166
Here is the IB version in "IB" order:
Uni Subjects and grades required
and
grades
required General Maths
overall HL condition condition
HL=Higher level
SL=Standard level
MM=Maths Methods
Cambridge 38-42 7,7,7/7,7,6/7,6,6
Oxford 38-40

LSE 38 7,6,6 7HL
Bath 38 7,6,6 6HL
UCL 38 6,6,6 6HL
Warwick (+b in fourth AS) 38 6HL

Durham 38
Nottingham (or AABB) 38

SOAS 37 6,6,6
St Andrews 37 6HL (or science)

Bristol 34-37 6,6,6 6HL/7SL
York 36 6,6,6

Southampton (or ABBb) (or ABBC) (or ABBcc) 35 17+ 5MMSL
Manchester (BSc) 35 6,6,5

Birmingham 34
Manchester (Ba) 34 6,6,5
Edinburgh 34 5,5,5 Maths SL5/ Maths Studies SL6
Queen Mary 34 6SL (HL preferred
Newcastle 34 sl5
Loughborough 34

Leeds (Ba) 33 16+ 5
Kent 33 15+
Cardiff 33 SL5

Royal Holloway 32-35 5HL/5SL

Sussex 32-34

Queen's Belfast 32
Sheffield 32
Liverpool 32
Leicester 32
Strathclyde 32
East Anglia 31

Exeter 30-31 4,4 HL preferred

Lancaster 30 16+
Glasgow 30
Essex 30 sl
Reading 6,6,6 6HL
City 30
Surrey 30
Swansea
Coventry 30

Dundee 29 15+

London Met 28 15 4sl
Aberdeen 28 14+
Manchester Met 28
Salford 28
Bradford 28
Central Lancashire 28
Liverpool JMU 28

Aberystwyth 27

Portsmouth 26 15+

Heriot-Watt 26

Kingston 4

UWE Bristol 24-28

Ulster 24 12+
Nottingham Trent 24
Greenwich 24

Hull
Stirling
Keele #+Finance
Hertfordshire
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Paulwhy
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#167
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#167
I have uploaded new version of the spreadsheet. It has 2 additional columns C (UCAS point vaulation of the IB qulaiifation required) and D (actual average tariff points):
What extra information is in the spreadsheet version?
The excel spreadsheet contains the information in the printed version plus more details:
A-level applications As below plus some website links and some Work In progress columns e.g. on Further Maths , excluded subjects and applicants per place.
Scottish Applications Similar but for scottish applicstions
IB ApplicationsSimilar but for IB applicstions. Lets you compare UCAS points of IB qualifications with the actual aerage tariff of successful applicants.
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Paulwhy
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#168
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#168
I have added:
.0 subgroups for unis that demand qualifications above the .1 group level
What about the AAB.0 and BBB.0 groups?
Warwick (explicitly) and Edinburgh (implicitly) demand more from (all: Warwick, most: Edinburgh) students than just the 3 A-level grades given by the typical offer. So to show that they are in their own subgroups.
In the "Which unis should I apply to for econ guide?" the background with Warwick and Edinburgh is discussed on question "Are better universities necessarily in higher groups?
": http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=658957
and a 2nd level of partition to reflect when course quality and content varies substantially:
And why are there AAB.1.1 and AAB.1.2 groups?
The AAB.1 unis all make AAB typical offers and don't accept ABB.
The difference in the AAB.1.1 and AAB.1.2 is in terms of the course quality. I have put Leeds in a lower group as:
i)It is BA not BSc.
ii)In terms of output only 30% of Leeds Graduates get Business, Finance and Stats jobs. Whilst with Warwick, Bristol and Bath the percentages are 73%, 59%, 45%
iii)It only got a QAA mark of 22
iv)It is ranked 29th, 24th and 29th for econ by The Times, The Independent and The Guardian
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Paulwhy
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#169
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#169
Here are the 3 groups that have been formed from the old AAB.1 group:
AAB.0 (340 Points) (Demand more than just AAB: require a 4th AS/A level)
Warwick (+b in fourth AS) AABb/Aabbb/(AABB with FM) M** 473

AAB.1.1(340 Points) (Not make ABB offers or accept ABB grades)(Bsc)
Bristol AAA-ABB M** E**p 458
Bath AAB M** E**p 441
St Andrews AAB 430


AAB.1.2 (340 Points)(Not make ABB offers or accept ABB grades)(Ba course)
Leeds (Ba) AAB 413
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Paulwhy
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#170
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#170
I have split the old ABB.2 group into an ABB,2 group and an ABB.3 group.
ABB.2 (320 Points) (More than 21% of students have less than 320 points: Essex 42%,UEA 52%, Leicester 29%, Reading 24%) or accpet lower offers (RH BBB with maths, Sussex (BBB), Loughbourgh (only 200 points from A-levels) Clearing 2007(RH, Essex,UEA,Leicester,Reading) ,Clearing 2008(Essex,UEA,Leicester,Reading )
Loughborough 320 (200) 374
Sussex ABB-BBB 350
Royal Holloway ABB (or BBB/ABC inc. maths) M**p E**p 348

ABB.3 (320 Points) (More than 21% of students have less than 320 points: Essex 42%,UEA 52%, Leicester 29%, Reading 24%; Clearing 2007 and 2008 (all); % studnets BBC and below ( Essex 19% UEA 28%, Leicester immediate policy in clearing was to accept 280 points)
Essex 320 (200) 337
East Anglia ABB-BBB 327
Leicester ABB 325
Reading 320 - 340 (100) 320
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Paulwhy
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#171
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#171
I have added an explanation of the now 3 part group structure.
What do the XXX./0/1/2/3./1/2 groups mean?
The 1st part is the headline typical offer. The 2nd part compares results of successful students with that typical offer. The 3rd part is a measure of course quality.
XXX
This means that unis in that group typically make offers of XXX. Where the university has more than one typical offer the upper is used. Where 3 offers are used the middle is given.

/0/1/2/3
Sometimes groups are small and not broken down further. But sometimes they are. When unis typically require a higher level of academic performance than XXX then the .0 suffix is used.When XXX is normally adequate .1 is used. When one grade lower (i.e. XXY) is often adequate then .2 is used. Similalrly when a 2 grades underperformance (i.e. XXZ) is often adequate then .3 is used.

/1/2
The Final 1/2 term is rarely used. It unlike the 1st 2 parts reflects course quality. It is when it is clear IMO that two unis despite having the same offer and acceptance behaviour have different quality levels.
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Paulwhy
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#172
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#172
Currently there are 4 unis with the top ranking of AAA.1:
(Original post by Paulwhy)
AAA.1 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels)
Cambridge AAA M** E**p 528
Oxford # AAA M**p 512
LSE AAA M** 510
UCL AAAe M**A 459
I am thinking of introducing a new ranking of AAA.0 for unis that require specific modules grades on top of an overall grade of A. From UCAS I know that cambridge does, but UCL does not, make use of module grades for economics. Does anyone know what the situation is with LSE and Oxford?
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alex_hk90
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#173
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
I am thinking of introducing a new ranking of AAA.0 for unis that require specific modules grades on top of an overall grade of A. From UCAS I know that cambridge does, but UCL does not, make use of module grades for economics. Does anyone know what the situation is with LSE and Oxford?
Do you mean that applicants have been given Cambridge offers that specify A grades in particular Economics modules? As for LSE, I read on here that some people were asked for their UMS scores last year. Also, I think their standard offer if you do Further Maths is AAA + E in Further Maths, as that's what most people seemed to be receiving for L101.
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Paulwhy
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#174
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#174
(Original post by alex_hk90)
Do you mean that applicants have been given Cambridge offers that specify A grades in particular Economics modules?
That is exactly what I mean. Did that happen to you?

(Original post by alex_hk90)
As for LSE, I read on here that some people were asked for their UMS scores last year. Also, I think their standard offer if you do Further Maths is AAA + E in Further Maths, as that's what most people seemed to be receiving for L101.
Candidates being asked for their AS UMS scores is a further dimension of complexity!
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alex_hk90
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#175
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
That is exactly what I mean. Did that happen to you?
No, I took 5 A2s and my offer was AAA (excluding Computing). So in my case it would have been possible to meet it without Economics altogether. Before your post, I had only heard of Imperial Mathematicians being asked for module grades.

(Original post by Paulwhy)
Candidates being asked for their AS UMS scores is a further dimension of complexity!
Thinking about it, I'm not sure if that was for L101 or another course. It was in the LSE applicants thread and might have been Actuarial Science...
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Paulwhy
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#176
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#176
(Original post by alex_hk90)
Thinking about it, I'm not sure if that was for L101 or another course. It was in the LSE applicants thread and might have been Actuarial Science...
I saw a post from an LSE Economics applicant who had been asked what his AS module grades were. So I think you were correct the 1st time.
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cookieboy
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#177
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#177
Paul is a ******* legend. Thanks buddy!
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TSRreader
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#178
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Anyone seen the new Unistats result for 2008. The UCAS average tariff for economics has gone bad. University of Strathclyde's average tariff is higher than LSE. O O I know that UCAS points for Higher are a bit higher than AS level but I still can't understand how it got 528 points.
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Paulwhy
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#179
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#179
(Original post by TSRreader)
Anyone seen the new Unistats result for 2008. The UCAS average tariff for economics has gone bad. University of Strathclyde's average tariff is higher than LSE. O O I know that UCAS points for Higher are a bit higher than AS level but I still can't understand how it got 528 points.
I think it is a mistake.
i.e. it is not just a highers effect as Edinburgh and St Andrews are both below that,
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TSRreader
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#180
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(Original post by Paulwhy)
I think it is a mistake.
i.e. it is not just a highers effect as Edinburgh and St Andrews are both below that,
Another weird part is that St Andrew doesn't even have a score when I checked.
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