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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    I don't have enough hours to be able to get the planning done, let alone everything else, this on top of now disliking teaching altogether because I can't teach how I want to. It makes for a truly awful experience for people who really wanted to get in the profession, only to find that when they arrived, they were severely limited in the way they were told to teach, and are given an impossible workload for anyone who wants to sleep for more than 1 hour a night.
    I'm sorry this is happening to you, my son is in a similar situation and although has even been given the NQT job for next year he has now decided that his sanity and happiness is more important then to carry on teaching. This PGCE has had a very negative impact on all of us, on him trying to achieve such stupid standards with constantly getting knock backs through feedbacks, on his partner who is trying hard to work through her final uni year and support him and for us as parents, constantly worrying about his health, lack of rest, lack of sleep. I'm sorry but I do not understand the mentality of knock them down, exhaust them and then what, will they really get to be better teachers?
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    (Original post by Kiwi1990)
    I'm sorry this is happening to you, my son is in a similar situation and although has even been given the NQT job for next year he has now decided that his sanity and happiness is more important then to carry on teaching. This PGCE has had a very negative impact on all of us, on him trying to achieve such stupid standards with constantly getting knock backs through feedbacks, on his partner who is trying hard to work through her final uni year and support him and for us as parents, constantly worrying about his health, lack of rest, lack of sleep. I'm sorry but I do not understand the mentality of knock them down, exhaust them and then what, will they really get to be better teachers?
    Ive decided against doing my NQT/QTLS year as well, like you said happiness and a stress free life are more apart than a career I dont even want anymore. The good thing is though I had a chat with a careers advisor at my uni and she said having a PGCE on your cv is impressive and does count for something, even if you're doing something totally different than teaching
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    I actually think I might fail this course.

    I know what I have to do to improve, but I just don't seem to be able to put it in to action. If that makes any sense.

    Everything I was told to do at my first school, now seems to be the wrong thing to do.
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    (Original post by Lexi99)
    Ive decided against doing my NQT/QTLS year as well, like you said happiness and a stress free life are more apart than a career I dont even want anymore. The good thing is though I had a chat with a careers advisor at my uni and she said having a PGCE on your cv is impressive and does count for something, even if you're doing something totally different than teaching
    It might do, but when getting it is such a pain in the neck and a hell of a lot of work combined with being forced to teach in a certain undesirable way, it is better to just get out I reckon
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    It might do, but when getting it is such a pain in the neck and a hell of a lot of work combined with being forced to teach in a certain undesirable way, it is better to just get out I reckon
    Oh absolutely, mines bad but i can just about push through it, but you seem to be struggling with yours a bit more
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    (Original post by smartarse1983)
    I actually think I might fail this course.

    I know what I have to do to improve, but I just don't seem to be able to put it in to action. If that makes any sense.

    Everything I was told to do at my first school, now seems to be the wrong thing to do.
    That rings a lot of bells for me as well. change of school - completely different job it would seem - madness!
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    (Original post by Lexi99)
    Oh absolutely, mines bad but i can just about push through it, but you seem to be struggling with yours a bit more
    How is your workload? I have to do 10 lessons a week, and each should take anything up to 4 hours to plan (so i'm told), so I have to find 40 hours a week from somewhere just for the planning - madness! People work that much in one week.

    I find I get too tired later at night, so can't do planning into the late night when you have to get up at 6:15 everyday - I'm just knackered. This makes it all impossible for me - on top of not wanting the rubbish attached to the job now
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    How is your workload? I have to do 10 lessons a week, and each should take anything up to 4 hours to plan (so i'm told), so I have to find 40 hours a week from somewhere just for the planning - madness! People work that much in one week.

    I find I get too tired later at night, so can't do planning into the late night when you have to get up at 6:15 everyday - I'm just knackered. This makes it all impossible for me - on top of not wanting the rubbish attached to the job now
    SHOULD take up to 4 hours to plan? Who is telling you that??


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad app
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    How is your workload? I have to do 10 lessons a week, and each should take anything up to 4 hours to plan (so i'm told), so I have to find 40 hours a week from somewhere just for the planning - madness! People work that much in one week.

    I find I get too tired later at night, so can't do planning into the late night when you have to get up at 6:15 everyday - I'm just knackered. This makes it all impossible for me - on top of not wanting the rubbish attached to the job now
    Who says this? Can you tell the university as this is a ridiculous expectation, they could liaise with the school and help sort it out. You have, what, 3-4 months left...keep going!
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    (Original post by noodles!)
    SHOULD take up to 4 hours to plan? Who is telling you that??


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad app
    One of the teachers on placement. She gets rated 'outstanding' apparently. Uni have not said it is wrong. They just say that "this phase will be a lot of long hours until you can speed up". By which time I will have left teaching anyway
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    (Original post by balloon_parade)
    Who says this? Can you tell the university as this is a ridiculous expectation, they could liaise with the school and help sort it out. You have, what, 3-4 months left...keep going!
    See above post. What would you say is a correct expectation then? 1 hour? 2 hours? It certainly takes me at least two hours to sort out what I will do and write everything up. But becuase my planning is apparently not thorough enough, I am told I need to do more in depth planning, so in that case it will be pushing 3 or 4 hours.


    There are not enough hours in the day to do this so it has become impossible to finish this dreadful course.
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    See above post. What would you say is a correct expectation then? 1 hour? 2 hours? It certainly takes me at least two hours to sort out what I will do and write everything up. But becuase my planning is apparently not thorough enough, I am told I need to do more in depth planning, so in that case it will be pushing 3 or 4 hours.


    There are not enough hours in the day to do this so it has become impossible to finish this dreadful course.
    I'm on my PGCE now, and both Uni and my mentors have told me that lessons should take no longer to plan than they do to teach. So 1 hour lesson = 1 hour planning. You can't meticulously plan for everything because the nature of teaching is that it changes, so there is inevitably a load of wasted planning when a child asks you a relevant question that gets everyone slightly off topic (e.g. misconception type things) for 10 mins. So you just do an outline plan, your objectives and how you're gonna get the kids to meet them. You need to give broad timings, in 5 min blocks because everything changes, kids might get it faster than you planned, or they might take longer, so you need broad timings so you can adjust them if you need to.

    Obviously, if you're being observed you might take longer and do more detailed plans, but for most lessons, you really shouldn't need 4 hours. Hopefully that's a bit helpful?
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    (Original post by flamingoshoes)
    I'm on my PGCE now, and both Uni and my mentors have told me that lessons should take no longer to plan than they do to teach. So 1 hour lesson = 1 hour planning. You can't meticulously plan for everything because the nature of teaching is that it changes, so there is inevitably a load of wasted planning when a child asks you a relevant question that gets everyone slightly off topic (e.g. misconception type things) for 10 mins. So you just do an outline plan, your objectives and how you're gonna get the kids to meet them. You need to give broad timings, in 5 min blocks because everything changes, kids might get it faster than you planned, or they might take longer, so you need broad timings so you can adjust them if you need to.

    Obviously, if you're being observed you might take longer and do more detailed plans, but for most lessons, you really shouldn't need 4 hours. Hopefully that's a bit helpful?
    It is impossible to do it within 1 hour. I agree with what you are saying about teaching changing in the moment - 100%

    This is part of the problem with education - nobody agrees on anything, teachers have too much to do, and we consequently are behind so many countries in terms with our education system.
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    It is impossible to do it within 1 hour. I agree with what you are saying about teaching changing in the moment - 100%

    This is part of the problem with education - nobody agrees on anything, teachers have too much to do, and we consequently are behind so many countries in terms with our education system.
    Can I ask what subject you teach? Also, how much longer do you have on your placement? I know it may seem tough, but it really is worth completing it if you can. Another possible option might be to do it flexibly? I know my uni has let a fair few people who have struggled do this, it'll take them longer but let them keep a lot more of their sanity. I don't know if this is possible for your course though. Sorry I can't be more help really.
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    (Original post by flamingoshoes)
    Can I ask what subject you teach? Also, how much longer do you have on your placement? I know it may seem tough, but it really is worth completing it if you can. Another possible option might be to do it flexibly? I know my uni has let a fair few people who have struggled do this, it'll take them longer but let them keep a lot more of their sanity. I don't know if this is possible for your course though. Sorry I can't be more help really.
    Subject is maths, how much longer - about 13 weeks, as well as 3 assignments and other things for uni.

    I know it would be good to finish, and after thinking of leaving a few weeks ago, I contacted the provider and we agreed it would be good to try and finish, but i had doubts about fitting the workload in and these have become true.

    I am in a situation where I get up at 06:15, get to placement at 08:00, and there is not enough time to fit everything in, and by 7pm I am too tired to do any more. I have gone off teaching because there is a lack of freedom and too much nonsense going on, and combining this with not being able to keep up with the workload has brought me to a halt.

    I had to contact the mentor to say I couldn't get the lessons planned, as I ran out of time. It is just a joke, other people may be willing to sacrafice their existence for it, but I won't.
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    See above post. What would you say is a correct expectation then? 1 hour? 2 hours? It certainly takes me at least two hours to sort out what I will do and write everything up. But becuase my planning is apparently not thorough enough, I am told I need to do more in depth planning, so in that case it will be pushing 3 or 4 hours.


    There are not enough hours in the day to do this so it has become impossible to finish this dreadful course.
    I see teaching similar to learning to drive, everything is hard at first and you have to really think about every little thing. The more you do it, the more fluid it becomes, this is the same as planning lessons.

    Ask exactly what the school wants, how can it be more thorough? What else do you need to add? Go back to basics. Tell your school based mentor, you're having trouble and this is what you want to do to address it. There is no point piling more work on until this is sorted. Have some lessons a week that don't need lots of planning, some that are just going to be OK and focus on a few that you put more effort in to.

    It IS hard and on the PGCE you will spend most of your time either doing work or at least thinking about it, I've found actual teaching isn't like this, you don't have constant scrutiny (I found this extremely difficult!) and from my experience there is much more freedom, although admittedly this isn't always the case.

    I really would encourage you to carry on, set some targets for planning, find out what they want and how you can do this. Work hard and don't take criticism to heart, they only want you to improve. Good luck!
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    (Original post by balloon_parade)
    I see teaching similar to learning to drive, everything is hard at first and you have to really think about every little thing. The more you do it, the more fluid it becomes, this is the same as planning lessons.

    Ask exactly what the school wants, how can it be more thorough? What else do you need to add? Go back to basics. Tell your school based mentor, you're having trouble and this is what you want to do to address it. There is no point piling more work on until this is sorted. Have some lessons a week that don't need lots of planning, some that are just going to be OK and focus on a few that you put more effort in to.

    It IS hard and on the PGCE you will spend most of your time either doing work or at least thinking about it, I've found actual teaching isn't like this, you don't have constant scrutiny (I found this extremely difficult!) and from my experience there is much more freedom, although admittedly this isn't always the case.

    I really would encourage you to carry on, set some targets for planning, find out what they want and how you can do this. Work hard and don't take criticism to heart, they only want you to improve. Good luck!
    If only it was easy to just say: "right, I will carry on"! I physically can't/won't do the stupid hours needed. I don't want to be snowed under with work all evening right up until midnight.

    I don't enjoy the teaching, becuase I know everything is being watched by that teacher at the back, and you think to yourself during lessons what will be critisised rather than focussing on what is happening next. I also don't enjoy it becuase I am not allowed to use powerpoint, mathswatch, textbooks, etc. which makes the job more difficult, planning and prep becomes a real chore and feedback where you are given a large list of faults with barely any positives takes its toll, and takes up valuable time.

    This is why so many of us have this sense of it all being impossible, and why there is a massive shortage of maths teachers nationally. so many leaving not only in the pgce year, but also in the first 5 years is no suprise to me at all when your life is made a misery.
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    If only it was easy to just say: "right, I will carry on"! I physically can't/won't do the stupid hours needed. I don't want to be snowed under with work all evening right up until midnight.

    I don't enjoy the teaching, becuase I know everything is being watched by that teacher at the back, and you think to yourself during lessons what will be critisised rather than focussing on what is happening next. I also don't enjoy it becuase I am not allowed to use powerpoint, mathswatch, textbooks, etc. which makes the job more difficult, planning and prep becomes a real chore and feedback where you are given a large list of faults with barely any positives takes its toll, and takes up valuable time.

    This is why so many of us have this sense of it all being impossible, and why there is a massive shortage of maths teachers nationally. so many leaving not only in the pgce year, but also in the first 5 years is no suprise to me at all when your life is made a misery.
    Sounds like your school isn't supporting your needs, have you thought about deferring this placement and doing it somewhere else? (preferably somewhere you CAN use powerpoint and text books!) You could carry on with the academic side of it all it would just be the final placement. A few students on my PGCE took this route and did their final placement in Sept. See if this is an option for you. I would definitely think of this before dropping your QTS.

    I completely empathise with your situation as I felt the same only this time last year. I also had a difficult placement with what felt like constant scrutiny and a definite lack of support. I've been there! I found it hard to be confident and teach how I wanted to when being watched. I just kept it in my mind that they wanted me to improve and usually think of OFSTED standards rather than the QTS standards! You aren't expected to know it all. Have you spoken to your course tutors for advice?

    Don't lose your faith in yourself as a teacher or the whole education system because of a difficult placement/school. If you manage to get through this it will be SUCH an achievement and you will be so proud of yourself, your NQT year will be a walk in the park!
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    (Original post by balloon_parade)
    Sounds like your school isn't supporting your needs, have you thought about deferring this placement and doing it somewhere else? (preferably somewhere you CAN use powerpoint and text books!) You could carry on with the academic side of it all it would just be the final placement. A few students on my PGCE took this route and did their final placement in Sept. See if this is an option for you. I would definitely think of this before dropping your QTS.

    I completely empathise with your situation as I felt the same only this time last year. I also had a difficult placement with what felt like constant scrutiny and a definite lack of support. I've been there! I found it hard to be confident and teach how I wanted to when being watched. I just kept it in my mind that they wanted me to improve and usually think of OFSTED standards rather than the QTS standards! You aren't expected to know it all. Have you spoken to your course tutors for advice?

    Don't lose your faith in yourself as a teacher or the whole education system because of a difficult placement/school. If you manage to get through this it will be SUCH an achievement and you will be so proud of yourself, your NQT year will be a walk in the park!
    Thanks for the advice. Maybe deferring to another school (and the break associated with it) will be a good idea, but I am worried I will have the same issues in the new school, still don't want people using powerpoint, textbooks, etc. and they want you creating all your own resources (reinventing the wheel when there is no need). One thing is for sure I won't continue at the current school any longer. I'll see if deferring is an option.

    NQT year a walk in the park? I doubt it!
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    As balloon parade said, you just don't have the scrutiny after the pgce- you're free to teach how you wish aside from the observation per half term. I know what it is like to have a hyper- critical mentor as I did at my first placement, but I'm so glad I did because now I have such a great grounding.

    It's so much harder if you have it in placement 2 because you lose all confidence in what you achieved so far.

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