The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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thunder_chunky
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#1921
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#1921
(Original post by bun)
The usual. Chronic lack of acticity, all sparked into life with election looming and it all kicking off a bit after one party was a bit *insert adjective/adverb here* then became victims themselves of unduly harsh punishment. All sorted now as they've kissed and made up somewhat. Another great repeal bill being voted upon.
Plus ça change...
Same ****, different year then. Another repeal bill, you guys having one every year now?
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bun
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#1922
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#1922
(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Same ****, different year then. Another repeal bill, you guys having one every year now?
Precisely!

Seems that way! I was against the first one, but had about a year off from MHoC so don't feel as bad at losing everything this time.
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thunder_chunky
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#1923
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#1923
(Original post by bun)
Precisely!

Seems that way! I was against the first one, but had about a year off from MHoC so don't feel as bad at losing everything this time.
I was against it when it was the first in time in a few years. That was only because there was a massive backlog that effected some of the legislation we were writing at the time. You only need to entertain the idea once every four years. Especially now things are quieter.
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Rakas21
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#1924
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#1924
(Original post by James Milibanter)
Well global warming and climate change may mean that we don't even get that far into the future.
Global warming will not cause extinction. Africa may be screwed but here in Britain we'll survive with a few more extreme weather events.
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RayApparently
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#1925
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#1925
(Original post by Rakas21)
Global warming will not cause extinction. Africa may be screwed but here in Britain we'll survive with a few more extreme weather events.
Not a particularly compassionate outlook.
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Rakas21
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#1926
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#1926
(Original post by RayApparently)
Not a particularly compassionate outlook.
I support western self interest, that's where our bread is buttered.

Don't get me wrong, i do support the green agenda but i don't especially care what happens to Africa and the Middle East. To date, they've caused nothing but trouble. Should that change then i'll care what happens.
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Aph
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#1927
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#1927
(Original post by Rakas21)
Global warming will not cause extinction. Africa may be screwed but here in Britain we'll survive with a few more extreme weather events.
You mean our ancestral homeland? And actually here in Britain global warming will cause sea level rise (genes my evacuate London bill) and more flooding so we will become uninhabitable marshland Exept for Scotland. But actually Africa will likely need to be evacuated in the end anyway, the great rift vally is set to split and tear Africa into 2 relitively soon geologically speaking...
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Rakas21
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#1928
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#1928
(Original post by Aph)
You mean our ancestral homeland? And actually here in Britain global warming will cause sea level rise (genes my evacuate London bill) and more flooding so we will become uninhabitable marshland Exept for Scotland. But actually Africa will likely need to be evacuated in the end anyway, the great rift vally is set to split and tear Africa into 2 relitively soon geologically speaking...
Many moons ago. I care far more about our brethren in the Anglosphere although i have a lot of respect for the Oriental nations.

That may be true but i'm sure we can develop defenses and at any rate my parents house is about 130m above sea level so not an issue for me.

That's true as well but it'll be a few million years.
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Aph
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#1929
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#1929
(Original post by Rakas21)
Many moons ago. I care far more about our brethren in the Anglosphere although i have a lot of respect for the Oriental nations.

That may be true but i'm sure we can develop defenses and at any rate my parents house is about 130m above sea level so not an issue for me.

That's true as well but it'll be a few million years.
You know that Africa and the Far East are only so bad because of Imperial rule we left power vacuums when we left which cased all this and the impacts of all our wars which we fought there didn't help. They would be far better off if we had left well enough alone.

to to the extent to also stop floods too, basiclly Britain is done for and we will need to evacuate the island eventually. Just one more reason to support USE if you ask me.
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Rakas21
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#1930
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#1930
(Original post by Aph)
You know that Africa and the Far East are only so bad because of Imperial rule we left power vacuums when we left which cased all this and the impacts of all our wars which we fought there didn't help. They would be far better off if we had left well enough alone.

to to the extent to also stop floods too, basiclly Britain is done for and we will need to evacuate the island eventually. Just one more reason to support USE if you ask me.
In Africa i agree somewhat however in Asia it was the rise of socialism which destroyed any prosperity. The Asian Tigers embraced markets and are per capita extremely rich. The Middle East would have been better if we'd never left.

Your talking centuries.
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RayApparently
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#1931
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#1931
(Original post by Aph)
You know that Africa and the Far East are only so bad because of Imperial rule we left power vacuums when we left which cased all this and the impacts of all our wars which we fought there didn't help. They would be far better off if we had left well enough alone.

to to the extent to also stop floods too, basiclly Britain is done for and we will need to evacuate the island eventually. Just one more reason to support USE if you ask me.
I'm not so sure Africa would be better today if no Westerner ever set foot there.
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RayApparently
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#1932
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#1932
(Original post by Aph)
to to the extent to also stop floods too, basiclly Britain is done for and we will need to evacuate the island eventually. Just one more reason to support USE if you ask me.
UK is No. 8 in countries most likely to survive climate change. Man trumps nature.
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Rakas21
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#1933
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#1933
(Original post by RayApparently)
I'm not so sure Africa would be better today if no Westerner ever set foot there.
I agree. Africa was centuries behind when we arrived because of massive geographic constraints to technology transfer (Oceans and the Sahara). Contrast this to western Europe where war between countries with coasts led to the incentive to innovate and where land barriers were relatively non-existent from the Himalayas to western Europe. In addition to property rights of course.
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Aph
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#1934
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#1934
(Original post by Rakas21)
In Africa i agree somewhat however in Asia it was the rise of socialism which destroyed any prosperity. The Asian Tigers embraced markets and are per capita extremely rich. The Middle East would have been better if we'd never left.

Your talking centuries.
socalism started in the UK, eugenics started in America, people for less well of country's emulate the ideas that well of countries have but take them to the extreame which causes problems and by tigers I assume you mean china ect? Because we had to force them at gunpoint to accept capitalism.

(Original post by RayApparently)
I'm not so sure Africa would be better today if no Westerner ever set foot there.
Well I guess we will never know, after all history is written by the victors so they could've been perfectly polite and civil... In fact I remember a quote from the slave trade that went a little like
other then a good wanting of Christianity they(the slaves) were alrigh
so you never know.
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barnetlad
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#1935
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#1935
(Original post by Rakas21)
Global warming will not cause extinction. Africa may be screwed but here in Britain we'll survive with a few more extreme weather events.
Many of the actions that should be carried out to reduce the threat of global warming are those which reduce energy dependence on unpleasant regimes and help reduce obesity. Some of the others create jobs in the UK.

As I mentioned to someone a few weeks ago, if you leave a light on needlessly, you are helping President Putin.
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Rakas21
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#1936
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#1936
(Original post by Aph)
socalism started in the UK, eugenics started in America, people for less well of country's emulate the ideas that well of countries have but take them to the extreame which causes problems and by tigers I assume you mean china ect? Because we had to force them at gunpoint to accept capitalism.

Well I guess we will never know, after all history is written by the victors so they could've been perfectly polite and civil... In fact I remember a quote from the slave trade that went a little like so you never know.
Marx may have wrote his work in Manchester however our fall to socialism between ~1890-1970 was pretty tame. Unlike the USSR, Cuba or China we never abandoned property rights for example and allowed private competition. We went more or less as far as the Greens want to today, a mixture of command economy and social democracy. We never forced China to accept capitalism, they chose to in the 70's themselves having seen what was happening in Hong Kong.

Unlikely, the British bought slaves from African slave traders for one thing. They were feudal largely.

(Original post by barnetlad)
Many of the actions that should be carried out to reduce the threat of global warming are those which reduce energy dependence on unpleasant regimes and help reduce obesity. Some of the others create jobs in the UK.

As I mentioned to someone a few weeks ago, if you leave a light on needlessly, you are helping President Putin.
I agree. I'd like the UK to become an energy exporter.
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Aph
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#1937
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#1937
(Original post by Rakas21)
Marx may have wrote his work in Manchester however our fall to socialism between ~1890-1970 was pretty tame. Unlike the USSR, Cuba or China we never abandoned property rights for example and allowed private competition. We went more or less as far as the Greens want to today, a mixture of command economy and social democracy. We never forced China to accept capitalism, they chose to in the 70's themselves having seen what was happening in Hong Kong.

Unlikely, the British bought slaves from African slave traders for one thing. They were feudal largely.



I agree. I'd like the UK to become an energy exporter.
Yes that's exactly what I said, they take it further it's like children in reception acting like children in year 6... And I'm pretty sure we did during the opiam wars, and we also forced it onto japan... Both were pretty closed before then.
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TeeEff
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#1938
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#1938
(Original post by Aph)
I assume you mean china ect? Because we had to force them at gunpoint to accept capitalism..
Chinese market reforms in the 1980s began with Deng Xiaoping when he saw how well Singapore was doing as a tiger economy. Not really pointing a gun at his head at all.
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Aph
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#1939
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#1939
(Original post by The Financier)
Chinese market reforms in the 1980s began with Deng Xiaoping when he saw how well Singapore was doing as a tiger economy. Not really pointing a gun at his head at all.
Sorry, was it japan then? And Singapore only did well due to natal reform. Though I'm sure the opiam wars were forcing china to accept capitalism at least for tea. Actually didn't tea start capitalism?
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Rakas21
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#1940
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#1940
(Original post by Aph)
Yes that's exactly what I said, they take it further it's like children in reception acting like children in year 6... And I'm pretty sure we did during the opiam wars, and we also forced it onto japan... Both were pretty closed before then.
You mean the 1800's.

Whatever gain they made (Japan certainly did) was absolved by WW2 and the fall to totalitarianism. Japan of course quickly rose again but for China it was their choice.
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