TSR Med Students' Society (TSR Meds) Watch

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Jamie
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#2481
Report 11 years ago
#2481
(Original post by Sarky)
1. Are you asking me if i'm mad? Because IPL isn't my idea. It's part of my course and i don't have a choice. It's been drummed into us that that is part of the aim of this audit. Whether i believe it to be true or not doesn't come into it because this isn't optional.

2. And i was referring to what everyone collectively is referred to, using the same language that they do. Not that i have a particular problem with being called a healthcare student, i know what i am and its just a title.
You were unfortunate to use a couple of my 'trigger' words.
The whole thing just winds me up so badly. The nurse practioner, or even the ward matron are not my superiors. WE have different jobs with different 'command structures'. Thus i won't do everything asked of me unless i too deem it necessary.

And as for MDT.
O bloody brilliant. In what universe should i care about what other workers are going to do.
MDTs where oncology meets respiratory meets radiology for example - brilliant idea.
MDT where HCA meets physio meets doctors, meets some weird NP care in community people though...
Sarky
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#2482
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#2482
(Original post by Jamie)
You were unfortunate to use a couple of my 'trigger' words.
The whole thing just winds me up so badly. The nurse practioner, or even the ward matron are not my superiors. WE have different jobs with different 'command structures'. Thus i won't do everything asked of me unless i too deem it necessary.

And as for MDT.
O bloody brilliant. In what universe should i care about what other workers are going to do.
MDTs where oncology meets respiratory meets radiology for example - brilliant idea.
MDT where HCA meets physio meets doctors, meets some weird NP care in community people though...
Fair enough thats your opinion and thats cool. Whether you think its a load of crap or not doesn't change the fact that i have to do it in order to stay on my course.

I am less than enthusiasic about the whole thing myself hence the post in the first place, and most people here agree. But needs must.
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Helenia
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#2483
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#2483
I think I'm well on the way to being a terrible doctor :s:
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Daveo
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#2484
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#2484
(Original post by Helenia)
I think I'm well on the way to being a terrible doctor :s:
Don't be silly. What makes you think that?
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Helenia
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#2485
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#2485
(Original post by Daveo)
Don't be silly. What makes you think that?
I've just had a crappy week. I'm back on Medicine after 5 awesome weeks of surgery, and it's so slow moving and frustrating. It seems that for most of our patients, even if we fix whatever's wrong with them on this admission, they'll probably die within the next year anyway. I've tried doing some clerkings, and while a few have been really good, the rest of the time the patients are too ill to talk, or too batty to give a good history. And I hate myself for thinking about them like that; they're someone's granny and not just another old lady with another bout of pneumonia, but I can't motivate myself. I see no point in "clerking" if it's not going to make any sense or teach me anything new, but if I don't practise, then I'll be crap at communicating and will get a crap ranking and never get a job.

I've tried the "but if you're going to be a surgeon it won't matter" thing, but although I think I want to head down that path, I don't want to become a stereotypical surgeon, so I still NEED to be good with people, and not just nice, young people with good histories presenting with acute onset RIF pain .
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Fluffy
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#2486
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#2486
Easy to take histories are boooorrriiinnnggg! They teach you nothing that you couldn't learn from a book... It's the batties and difficults who are interesting, and teach you far more about real people than a text book case...

Could you try thinking of them as a real challenge, rather than frustrating?

PS - I love reading stuff from peeps who know they want to be surgeons. The way you sound like you feel is exactly the same as me, but from the other way round - found medicine fab and surgery boring. Really difficult to examine a post 'conversion to open' day stay case when you're doing upper GI... And as a lot of our stuff is day stay, in patients are few on the ground - certainly not enough to allow all 8 of us on firm a good shot at doing stuff...
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Daveo
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#2487
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#2487
(Original post by Helenia)
I've just had a crappy week. I'm back on Medicine after 5 awesome weeks of surgery, and it's so slow moving and frustrating. It seems that for most of our patients, even if we fix whatever's wrong with them on this admission, they'll probably die within the next year anyway. I've tried doing some clerkings, and while a few have been really good, the rest of the time the patients are too ill to talk, or too batty to give a good history. And I hate myself for thinking about them like that; they're someone's granny and not just another old lady with another bout of pneumonia, but I can't motivate myself. I see no point in "clerking" if it's not going to make any sense or teach me anything new, but if I don't practise, then I'll be crap at communicating and will get a crap ranking and never get a job.

I've tried the "but if you're going to be a surgeon it won't matter" thing, but although I think I want to head down that path, I don't want to become a stereotypical surgeon, so I still NEED to be good with people, and not just nice, young people with good histories presenting with acute onset RIF pain .
I wouldn't worry too much about that. For the most part I find medicine rather boring. Too many 5 hour long ward rounds on medical firms has put a surgical speciality right at the top of my list of potential careers. Although I still don't think i'll be good/competative enough for it.
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Jamie
Badges: 18
#2488
Report 11 years ago
#2488
(Original post by Helenia)
I've just had a crappy week. I'm back on Medicine after 5 awesome weeks of surgery, and it's so slow moving and frustrating. It seems that for most of our patients, even if we fix whatever's wrong with them on this admission, they'll probably die within the next year anyway. I've tried doing some clerkings, and while a few have been really good, the rest of the time the patients are too ill to talk, or too batty to give a good history. And I hate myself for thinking about them like that; they're someone's granny and not just another old lady with another bout of pneumonia, but I can't motivate myself. I see no point in "clerking" if it's not going to make any sense or teach me anything new, but if I don't practise, then I'll be crap at communicating and will get a crap ranking and never get a job.

I've tried the "but if you're going to be a surgeon it won't matter" thing, but although I think I want to head down that path, I don't want to become a stereotypical surgeon, so I still NEED to be good with people, and not just nice, young people with good histories presenting with acute onset RIF pain .
i'm just about to do the same thing (9 weeks, surgery, now about to start 9 weeks general med.
i think the annoyance is in being a useless med student again.
I don't want to 'clerk patients for practice'.
In surgery i could go to A&E, clerk them in, and present. I could differentiate people who needed a bed, and people who didn't, or at very least order most the tests that could help make that decision.
I was, to be blunt, a valued member of the team.

when the house officers and SHOs changed over, the newbies were from medical firms. having seen how they treated me - like some dunce who is there to be their blood b*tch, i don't think i'm quite happy to go back ot medicine.

and this is from someone who always has explicitly NOT wanted to do surgery.
alio~
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#2489
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#2489
(Original post by Wangers)
Thats impossible to say - enviromental variation after brest feeding could have a significant impact. As would diet and excercise in the early years. By 30+ their own lifestyle, experiences and social interactions would be far bigger variables then if they were brest fed.

and what Jamie refers to - based on my poor knowledge of maths is a critical value. bng it all into a stats package and work out the probability of it being either crucified, heavily criticised, looked at with intrest or repeated at and after peer review.
What? So someone (an adult) who wasn't breast fed would have been healthier now if they had have been? I was like really shocked when I saw it because I wasn't breast fed at all and am a health perfectionist (so to speak), would I have been healthier now:confused: In what ways??

Also, how come breast milk (which is food basically) has long term benefits into adult health yet things like fruit and childhood diet doesn't?
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Helenia
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#2490
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#2490
(Original post by Fluffy)
Easy to take histories are boooorrriiinnnggg! They teach you nothing that you couldn't learn from a book... It's the batties and difficults who are interesting, and teach you far more about real people than a text book case...

Could you try thinking of them as a real challenge, rather than frustrating?

PS - I love reading stuff from peeps who know they want to be surgeons. The way you sound like you feel is exactly the same as me, but from the other way round - found medicine fab and surgery boring. Really difficult to examine a post 'conversion to open' day stay case when you're doing upper GI... And as a lot of our stuff is day stay, in patients are few on the ground - certainly not enough to allow all 8 of us on firm a good shot at doing stuff...
It's not that I really really know I want to be a surgeon, I'm still pretty vague. But from current experience I would definitely prefer to be a surgeon than a general medic! It's not just about the surgery itself - once you've seen one or two lap choles you've seen most of them - it's the style of working, as Jamie described. On surgery, we could clerk the patients in A&E, as their first point of medical contact, we did their cannulas and bloods, presented to our seniors and were generally involved much more in their care pathway. With medicine, it seems we go on ward rounds lasting all day, the SHOs see all new admissions in MAU and we hardly get to do anything that feels useful. Taking long convoluted (and usually wildly inaccurate) histories is all very well but it doesn't achieve anything new.

Plus it's just depressing. I never want to be old and in hospital.
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Muse
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#2491
Report Thread starter 11 years ago
#2491
I've nearly finished Psychiatry!! Exam next week and then it's GI surgery! As for Jamie mentioning MDT meetings: Gah! Psych is full of them. I want my consultant-led humiliating ward rounds back. How else will I find motivation to learn anatomy?

*Memories of first vascular firm*

SpR: What are the viral causes of acute pancreatitis, boy?

Me: Errr..ummm... I thought this was a vascular patient.

SpR: *erupts* You can't pick and choose what parts of medicine you want to learn!


Meh, couldn't really retort without fear of castration. Made me go and look them up though...
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Jamie
Badges: 18
#2492
Report 11 years ago
#2492
(Original post by Muse)
I've nearly finished Psychiatry!! Exam next week and then it's GI surgery! As for Jamie mentioning MDT meetings: Gah! Psych is full of them. I want my consultant-led humiliating ward rounds back. How else will I find motivation to learn anatomy?

*Memories of first vascular firm*

SpR: What are the viral causes of acute pancreatitis, boy?

Me: Errr..ummm... I thought this was a vascular patient.

SpR: *erupts* You can't pick and choose what parts of medicine you want to learn!


Meh, couldn't really retort without fear of castration. Made me go and look them up though...
Mumps. Though i get annoyed when people whip out random questions.
worst is when they ask pointed questions like that and then when you say 'mumps' they say 'no, go back to the surgical sieve...'
Saffie
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#2493
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#2493
you guys are destroying any enthusiasm i had. :s:
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Fluffy
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#2494
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#2494
(Original post by Muse)
SpR: What are the viral causes of acute pancreatitis, boy?
Is it just me, or it the only thing that ever comes to mind when asked about any cause it fecking scorpion venom? Sod the obvious gallstones and alcohol, or even mumps and CMV - it's always the scorpions that finds it's way out of the mouth's of most of my firm first! It's become a running joke!

One of the others gave it last time, to be told it was only one specific type of scorpion and what was it! Like, helllooooooo!
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Fluffy
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#2495
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#2495
(Original post by Helenia)
it's the style of working, as Jamie described. On surgery, we could clerk the patients in A&E, as their first point of medical contact, we did their cannulas and bloods, presented to our seniors and were generally involved much more in their care pathway. With medicine, it seems we go on ward rounds lasting all day, the SHOs see all new admissions in MAU and we hardly get to do anything that feels useful. Taking long convoluted (and usually wildly inaccurate) histories is all very well but it doesn't achieve anything new.
I guess my current hospital must work in a different way - as what you've described for surgery is what I've done for medcine, and we get to do nothing in surgery except, if we are really lucky (!), get to be a blood *****...
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Jamie
Badges: 18
#2496
Report 11 years ago
#2496
(Original post by Fluffy)
Is it just me, or it the only thing that ever comes to mind when asked about any cause it fecking scorpion venom? Sod the obvious gallstones and alcohol, or even mumps and CMV - it's always the scorpions that finds it's way out of the mouth's of most of my firm first! It's become a running joke!

One of the others gave it last time, to be told it was only one specific type of scorpion and what was it! Like, helllooooooo!
I did that. I gave scorpion venom as an answer, and the consultant thinking himself a clever **** said 'which species'?
I turned around and said ' the black south american scorpion (brazil to be precise) and the guy was totally dumnstruck.

I only knew because believe it or not i actually met a girl on elective whose mother has diabetes due to a knackered pancreas due to...scorpion induced pancreatitis!
She had been on holiday in Brazil at the time...
Jamie
Badges: 18
#2497
Report 11 years ago
#2497
(Original post by Fluffy)
I guess my current hospital must work in a different way - as what you've described for surgery is what I've done for medcine, and we get to do nothing in surgery except, if we are really lucky (!), get to be a blood *****...
in surgery as in sterile fields type surgery then yeh, its a bit dull. but i literally was IN surgery at most once a week when i did it.
surgery is for SpRs and Consultants. SHOs if they are lucky.

the only reason they ask for a med student or HO is to play camera *****
Fluffy
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#2498
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#2498
Ahh! Sweet camera *****ing!!!

One of our SpR's is a real patient hogger, but the other allow's us to close under supervision etc... Unfortunately there are 8 of us on firm, only 2 allowed in theatre at a time, so only opportunity for 6 peeps a week to get to see surgery.

I prefer 'hanging wid da gasmen', as at least you get to practice cannulating, which I'm sure will get dull after a while, but I guess is invaluable to ickle 3rd years at this stage!!!

I loved medicine - especially clinics. One of our med consultants would give us our own room and a pile of patient notes, we did the history and examination on our own, wrote them up in the patient notes, then Prof would come in, get us to present our findings, ask anything that she thought we had missed, quickly go over our examination findings and ask the patient for feedback on our performance...

The other med consultants would get us to do their examinations, and feedback as we went.

In surgery clinics, we are lucky if we are allowed to examine a hernia! One of the surgery consultants asks us questions, tells us we are wrong, asks us again for the answer, which none of us can give as we all agreed with the first answer, then calls us all stupid and gives us the same answer as the first answer, proving he listens to nothing!!! Reeeaallllyyy frustrating!!!
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Fluffy
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#2499
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#2499
(Original post by Jamie)
I did that. I gave scorpion venom as an answer, and the consultant thinking himself a clever **** said 'which species'?
I turned around and said ' the black south american scorpion (brazil to be precise) and the guy was totally dumnstruck.

I only knew because believe it or not i actually met a girl on elective whose mother has diabetes due to a knackered pancreas due to...scorpion induced pancreatitis!
She had been on holiday in Brazil at the time...
Tityus trinitatis! We have all added that to our 'scorpion effect' armoury! I guess that means we will never be asked again - you never are when you have the answer!
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Helenia
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#2500
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#2500
Yeah, it does sound pretty much like your Medicine experience was a lot closer to what I did on surgery, Fluffy - being on your own in clinics and all that (at Addies, clinic consisted of sitting in a corner while people had their cholesterol levels read out and their statin doses adjusted). I'm going to try and get in on some clinics this week, which will hopefully be more interesting - but again this is because it's a specific problem rather than a multitude of pathologies which will never really be resolved - which is what happens on the wards.
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