&#x27;Incorporation&#x27; rather than &#x27;Matriculation&#x27; as a Cambridge graduate

purple_kitten

Hi all,

I've been trying to sort myself out for coming up to Oxford/matriculation but I've not yet heard anything from the college about dates for things and so on...anyway, I've heard from several reliable sources that as a holder of a Cambridge BA I need to 'incorporate' rather than 'matriculate' - info is on the Oxford website here http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/statutes/regulations/307-072.shtml which then means I have to wear a different gown? As I said not heard anything at all about anything to do with...well...anything from St X at the moment so I thought I'd ask here whether anyone who was also a Cambridge grad has done this and what it involved?

Thanks! x

My wife incorporated her Cambridge BA when she came to Oxford for the clinical part of her medical degree, and I recently incorporated my Cambridge MA. In both cases it just involved contacting the college office and explaining the situation, filling out a couple of forms and sending them the Cambridge degree certificate.

There is no ceremony - it is done at the next available scheduled graduation ceremony, but in absentia. And you shouldn't have to go to the university matriculation ceremony - though your college may have matriculation-related internal events which they will probably still want you to attend. This might include a photo of matriculands, for which you would have to wear academic dress.

In terms of which gown to wear:

i) If you matriculate and don't incorporate then you can wear EITHER the Oxford advanced students gown OR the gown of your existing non-Oxford degree i.e. Cambridge BA gown. You can choose which (unlike in Cambridge, there are very few situations where you aren't allowed to wear another institution's gown)

ii) If you incorporate, you should wear an Oxford BA gown, because you have an Oxford degree. But absolutely no one would notice if you wore a Cambridge BA gown instead of an Oxford BA gown, if that was more convenient (e.g. if you already had one). This is what my wife did, including for sitting medical school finals, without any problems.

Reply 2

purple_kitten

OP

Thanks for this - v useful!

Hmm, I don't have a degree certificate (it went astray when I moved house recently) and have ordered another (I was meaning to get one of the pretty ones anyway but didn't get round to it - this gave me the necessary impetus!) but it will take 28 days from yesterday to arrive - so might turn up in time but not certain! I do however have my official transcript - do you think this will suffice?

Reply 3

purple_kitten

Thanks for this - v useful!

Hmm, I don't have a degree certificate (it went astray when I moved house recently) and have ordered another (I was meaning to get one of the pretty ones anyway but didn't get round to it - this gave me the necessary impetus!) but it will take 28 days from yesterday to arrive - so might turn up in time but not certain! I do however have my official transcript - do you think this will suffice?

Possibly - you need to talk to your Oxford college. If there's any problem, you can probably get your Cambridge college to write to your Oxford college to confirm that you did graduate.

Also, graduation ceremonies in Oxford take place regularly throughout the year, so if there is a delay in getting your certificate it may just mean incorporating at a later ceremony. I don't think there would be any real problem in starting your course without having incorporated yet, if your incorporation is pending for the next available ceremony.

Reply 4

hobnob

mja

ii) If you incorporate, you should wear an Oxford BA gown, because you have an Oxford degree. But absolutely no one would notice if you wore a Cambridge BA gown instead of an Oxford BA gown, if that was more convenient (e.g. if you already had one). This is what my wife did, including for sitting medical school finals, without any problems.

The BA gowns aren't really worth getting, though, because they're quite expensive and there aren't very many occasions for wearing them (especially for people who are doing one-year courses). According to the people at Walter's, Oxford graduates who stay on to do master's degrees hardly ever buy BA gowns, even though that would technically be the correct gown for them to wear. They just wear advanced student's gowns instead and nobody cares.

By the way, what happens if somebody with a Cambridge BA incorporates and then later decides to take his MA? Would he turn into a Cambridge MA or an Oxford MA? :confused:

Reply 5

cpchem

hobnob

The BA gowns aren't really worth getting, though, because they're quite expensive and there aren't very many occasions for wearing them (especially for people who are doing one-year courses). According to the people at Walter's, Oxford graduates who stay on to do master's degrees hardly ever buy BA gowns, even though that would technically be the correct gown for them to wear. They just wear advanced student's gowns instead and nobody cares.

By the way, what happens if somebody with a Cambridge BA incorporates and then later decides to take his MA? Would he turn into a Cambridge MA or an Oxford MA? :confused:

But they're so ugly! At least borrow a BA gown, otherwise you end up looking like one of us undergrads who picked up a much taller person's gown :tongue:

Reply 6

swiftuk

8

cpchem

But they're so ugly! At least borrow a BA gown, otherwise you end up looking like one of us undergrads who picked up a much taller person's gown :tongue:

Have you seen the cost? :eek:

(Ok, my BSc gown is more expensive than the BA one, and I can't cheat because it has blue buttons/cord, but it's £175 for a BSc gown, and £75 for a hood). If I ever decide to buy myself a gown it will be an MSc one as a treat for finally passing the expletive thing :wink:

It's also harder to borrow, because they go on chest measurement as well as height.

Reply 7

cpchem

swiftuk

Have you seen the cost? :eek:

(Ok, my BSc gown is more expensive than the BA one, and I can't cheat because it has blue buttons/cord, but it's £175 for a BSc gown, and £75 for a hood). If I ever decide to buy myself a gown it will be an MSc one as a treat for finally passing the expletive thing :wink:

It's also harder to borrow, because they go on chest measurement as well as height.

I'd imagine most colleges have a pretty good stock of gowns to loan out.

Reply 8

swiftuk

8

And Worcester has definitely said to buy (either your old uni's academic dress, or advanced students gown).

Reply 9

hobnob

According to the people at Walter's, Oxford graduates who stay on to do master's degrees hardly ever buy BA gowns, even though that would technically be the correct gown for them to wear. They just wear advanced student's gowns instead and nobody cares.

I'm sure that's right - no one seems ever to notice, as long as you vaguely fit in with everyone else.

hobnob

By the way, what happens if somebody with a Cambridge BA incorporates and then later decides to take his MA? Would he turn into a Cambridge MA or an Oxford MA? :confused:

Incorporation doesn't affect your orginal degree - you have both. But incorporated degrees don't change - an incorporated BA stays a BA, until you incorporate your MA.

So my wife was BA (Cantab), then incorporated to be BA (Cantab) BA (Oxon). Then she graduated from Oxford and became: BA (Cantab) BA (Oxon) BM BCh (Oxon). Then a few months later she took her Cambridge MA and became BA (Oxon) BM BCh (Oxon) MA (Cantab). But because she is no longer a student or staff member of the University of Oxford she isn't eligible to incorporate the MA (Cantab) to bring her Oxford BA into line with the Cambridge MA.

As a final note, most people don't include incorporated degrees in their post-nominals - as everyone who knows what they mean knows why you have lots of BAs/MAs, and isn't impressed. So my wife just goes by BM BCh (Oxon) MA (Cantab)

Reply 10

Athena

So, going the other way... I could be BA (Oxon) BA (Cantab), then (because my PhD is long) MA (Oxon) MA (Cantab), and then eventually MA (Oxon) MA (Cantab) PhD Cantab?

Exactly. I'm in essentially the same boat - will hopefully be BCL (Oxon) MA (Oxon) MA (Cantab) DPhil (Oxon) in a year or two.

Athena

That's so confusing... and I don't know which Cambridge gown to get. BA status gown, or a BA gown because I'll integrate my BA (Oxon) into a BA (Cantab)?

Once you have incorporated then you have a Cambridge BA for (virtually) all purposes, so the BA gown, rather than BA status, would be correct.

But unlike in Oxford, they are virtually indistinguishable from one another anyway, so the issue barely arises.

Reply 11

cpchem