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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    I'm totally aware of the different accents in the US. In New England, I met quite a lot of older people with the most peculiar accents and pronunciations ever. But I would still say that there's a certain accent that appears to be standard: when in North America, younger people would go on about "not having an accent". That so-called generic accent is copied by many foreigners (have you ever heard a foreigner trying to sound like he's from the Midwest or Texas?).
    I'd like to know what this generic accent is. I'm watching CNN right now and hear three different accents from three reporters.

    And yes I hear foreigners sounding like they were from Texas. Most Latin Americans have a similar accent to the Mexican-Americans who make up a substantial part of the Texan population.

    I can understand why such a debate would sound totally pointless and extreme to an American: you have no actual language to be attached to. American culture is not based on language or religion like a lot of other countries' cultures are.
    Which English language are you referring to? Old Engligh? Middle English? If you're so concerned with preserving tradition, why are you using the current simplified form? Why not use Chaucer's English?

    It's not a discussion about the form, while ignoring the content (the UK rebate is a very interesting topic of conversation) but the form is an indicator. In the US, using one expression over another has little to do with which culture you belong to. In the US, I always got the impression that people say English as nothing more than a communications tool. Most people use English without ever thinking about the fact it originated in Britain. Here language counts a lot. Just as German is important to Germany and French is important to France (we're not as crazy as the French about our language at least) .
    If your language matters so much, why did you allow it to change? Why not find the earliest form of English and use that instead of using the current version which probably didn't exist for more than a few centuries?

    Plus I'm not so sure George Bush saying "We're increasing the budget. Full stop" would go unnoticed...
    People stopped caring about Bush's use of language a long time ago.

    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Sigh, resort ot over simplifying the argument if you will

    Color - American English, but not found in British dictionary.
    I'm very interested to know how you can differentiate the spelling of "color/colour" when it is being spoken.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    Very true... there was a long debate a while ago. Because of close ties between the two countries, American English and British English have not evolved independently. Someone claimed that the structure of sentences in English, as it was spoken in the 20th century was already influenced by American English. The thread would have to be dug up...

    Well actually my point was that I think that a different rule does apply to the PM.
    I understand that we take words from many different languages, and that's how many languages work, but its plain for most to see that these days some of the more poorly educated amongst us simply don't know many english words, and instead 'learn' their american counterpart.

    One of the big complaints these days in schools is that kids don't know how to spell many common words in Brit English simply because they use progs like Word which have an uncanny knack of reverting to american english at every poss opportunity.

    its a conspiracy i tells ya
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I'd like to know what this generic accent is. I'm watching CNN right now and hear three different accents from three reporters.

    And yes I hear foreigners sounding like they were from Texas. Most Latin Americans have a similar accent to the Mexican-Americans who make up a substantial part of the Texan population.
    Like you said earlier, its content not style that is important. As far as im concerned 'accent' makes no difference to american english. as languages i know go, it has poss the biggest range of accents possible (helped partially by the num of americans teaching english in international schools)

    But why should BRITISH kids have greater understand of AMERICAN english than BRITISH english? It surely shows that they are spending too much time watching AMERICAN based media, and too little on their BRITISH education.
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    If there has to be a saturation of American TV, Movies, Music etc. in this country then you have to expect that people are going to use words they hear from the sources around them.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I'm very interested to know how you can differentiate the spelling of "color/colour" when it is being spoken.
    The deterioration of the written language is just as concerning (if not more so) as the spoken.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Perhaps you can start by removing all the Germanic, French, and Latin words from your language?
    There wouldn't be any left: English is a German dialect which was pidginised with French after the Norman usurpation. Many of the Latin words came over as French words. Noah Webster, for some reason, persuaded the Americans to revert to the original latin spellings rather than recognise the French contribution.

    Erosion of the English language? Last time I checked, American English was still English.
    American English- especially dialects- is probaly more like historical English than contemporary English [or British] English. Words and phrases [fall for autumn, the ---ten past participle are examples, though period for full stop isn't, as far as I know] which vanished from English English have become Americanisms because they survived there.

    However, the most interesting thing about this remark of Tony Blair's is what it shows about Tone's psychology rather than the state of the english language.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Like you said earlier, its content not style that is important. As far as im concerned 'accent' makes no difference to american english. as languages i know go, it has poss the biggest range of accents possible (helped partially by the num of americans teaching english in international schools)

    But why should BRITISH kids have greater understand of AMERICAN english than BRITISH english? It surely shows that they are spending too much time watching AMERICAN based media, and too little on their BRITISH education.
    Are you calming that many British kids use more American than British words? It seems to me that you oppose any use of American English, and not just excessive use of it.

    (Original post by foolfarian)
    The deterioration of the written language is just as concerning (if not more so) as the spoken.
    How are you personally harmed by people not including a "u" in a handful of words? And people complain about Americans being nationalistic.
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    Oh come on, Bismarck, it's annoying as hell when Americans affect British vocabulary. If I hear one more idiot Hollywood actor talk about where he went "to university," instead of where he went to college (which is where normal Americans go), I'll puke.
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    Oh come on, Bismarck, it's annoying as hell when Americans affect British vocabulary. If I hear one more idiot Hollywood actor talk about where he went "to university," instead of where he went to college (which is where normal Americans go), I'll puke.
    At least they're not speaking French.
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    Yeah, but I'd be upset too if I lived in the UK. They have their own use of the language, their own colloquialisms, their own cliches, etc. Using American imports is probably a sign that kids are more influenced by TV shows and movies (which are largely American worldwide) than they are by real life and the real people in their town & on their street. And that's not a good thing.

    The fact that the intrusive dialect is American is, logically, an accident.
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    Bismarck, claiming that American English should not be used in British politics is not extreme or a form of rejection of the US. I would like to point out that you would never hear a US politician use a typical British expression unless it was a joke.

    As an American, you might not realise it but the expression "period" is very very American. Over here we use "full stop". Nothing's wrong with a bit of American expressions: as someone pointed out, we use loads and loads of American expressions in the UK but they've been around for so long that noone knows they're American anyway. But this expression is blatantly American. I was just expressing my surprise that the head of the British government would start using American expressions (maybe there have been others in the past but that was the first that I've noticed). If George Bush, in the State of the Nation started with "Good evening chaps" (seriously), people wouldn't just think "ah it's British English. Nothing wrong with that..."
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    (Original post by Iz the Wiz)
    Oh come on, Bismarck, it's annoying as hell when Americans affect British vocabulary. If I hear one more idiot Hollywood actor talk about where he went "to university," instead of where he went to college (which is where normal Americans go), I'll puke.
    LOL... Does that actually happen? But those kinds of incidents are far fewer than the number of Americanisms in British English. Another British usage I noticed was the spelling "theatre", whenever a place wanted to seem more sophisticated :confused:
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Are you calming that many British kids use more American than British words? It seems to me that you oppose any use of American English, and not just excessive use of it.



    How are you personally harmed by people not including a "u" in a handful of words? And people complain about Americans being nationalistic.
    Im not claiming they use more, but that because of the....insurgence of american words they are becoming confused as to correct spellings, and correct language. in many cases using american words is really no different from dropping a french word in.
    That said i think [fink] that some of the yardie and text speak introductionsa re much more harmful and much more indicative of poor education.

    And its not nationalistic, its simply trying to protect our culture in the face of a behemoth of uniformity culture. I accept that some people want a Maccie Ds churning the same rubbish out next to the pantheon, and on champs elysee etc etc, But to have our language erode away too, is unacceptable to me.
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    Actually, the New York Times is really annoying for pompously using Britishisms. Paul Krugman constantly uses that "full stop" thing. But what makes it worse is that the Times uses 100-year-old British slang, like they've been reading a bunch of Rudyard Kipling and Robert Louis Stevenson. They're always going on about how Bush or somebody "came a cropper," or how this or that world leader is a "corker."
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Im not claiming they use more, but that because of the....insurgence of american words they are becoming confused as to correct spellings, and correct language. in many cases using american words is really no different from dropping a french word in.
    That said i think [fink] that some of the yardie and text speak introductionsa re much more harmful and much more indicative of poor education.

    And its not nationalistic, its simply trying to protect our culture in the face of a behemoth of uniformity culture. I accept that some people want a Maccie Ds churning the same rubbish out next to the pantheon, and on champs elysee etc etc, But to have our language erode away too, is unacceptable to me.
    I too firmly believe that text speak should not be tolerated in any form outside of text messages since it really does erode our language as children think that is an acceptable alternative to using correct english spellings.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    I'd like to know what this generic accent is. I'm watching CNN right now and hear three different accents from three reporters.

    And yes I hear foreigners sounding like they were from Texas. Most Latin Americans have a similar accent to the Mexican-Americans who make up a substantial part of the Texan population.



    Which English language are you referring to? Old Engligh? Middle English? If you're so concerned with preserving tradition, why are you using the current simplified form? Why not use Chaucer's English?



    If your language matters so much, why did you allow it to change? Why not find the earliest form of English and use that instead of using the current version which probably didn't exist for more than a few centuries?



    People stopped caring about Bush's use of language a long time ago.



    I'm very interested to know how you can differentiate the spelling of "color/colour" when it is being spoken.
    The foreigners I was referring to were those that don't actually live in the US. Of course, anyone who lives for a long time in Texas will pick up a Texan accent. I would still claim there is a generic accent in the media. Most US TV series avoid having any Southern, Midwest or Texan accents... I believe what most people refer to as the "generic accent" is that of the Northeast (excluding any funky Bostonian or New Yorker accents), Florida and California (excluding the stoner/surfer talk).
    Do you people have something you call a Seattle accent or a Philadelphia accent or a Maine accent?

    When British actors put on an accent, most of the time, they attempt that "generic American accent".


    As for the use of modern English, I was referring to the vocabulary, the language that reflects today's culture. Today, there's still such a thing as British English (which is called thus, because it's spoken by Brits today, not because its origins are British).

    And for the spelling, that's a whole other debate.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    The foreigners I was referring to were those that don't actually live in the US. Of course, anyone who lives for a long time in Texas will pick up a Texan accent. I would still claim there is a generic accent in the media. Most US TV series avoid having any Southern, Midwest or Texan accents... I believe what most people refer to as the "generic accent" is that of the Northeast (excluding any funky Bostonian or New Yorker accents), Florida and California (excluding the stoner/surfer talk).
    Do you people have something you call a Seattle accent or a Philadelphia accent or a Maine accent?

    When British actors put on an accent, most of the time, they attempt that "generic American accent".


    As for the use of modern English, I was referring to the vocabulary, the language that reflects today's culture. Today, there's still such a thing as British English (which is called thus, because it's spoken by Brits today, not because its origins are British).

    And for the spelling, that's a whole other debate.
    havbe to say was surprised at how good hugh lauries american accent was in 'house'.
    i hate it when british actors blatantly try to sound the generic british that american audiences recognise, and end up sounding like an american trying to be british.
    [if you understand that you probablary deserve a medal]
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    I understand that we take words from many different languages, and that's how many languages work, but its plain for most to see that these days some of the more poorly educated amongst us simply don't know many english words, and instead 'learn' their american counterpart.

    One of the big complaints these days in schools is that kids don't know how to spell many common words in Brit English simply because they use progs like Word which have an uncanny knack of reverting to american english at every poss opportunity.

    its a conspiracy i tells ya
    LOL. It's true that some of the Americanisms are made by people who don't know any better... but there are other people who know very well which expression is more American and which one is more British and choose the American one. That probably annoys me more. As Iz The Wizz mentioned, certain Americans use British expressions to sound sophisticated well the same happens here in excessive amount and most of these people just sound stupid.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    As Iz The Wizz mentioned, certain Americans use British expressions to sound sophisticated well the same happens here in excessive amount and most of these people just sound stupid.
    Only Fools and Horses esque...
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    Yes, Sam, there are definitely Seattle, Philly, and Maine accents.

    Bismarck: You're maybe the most argumentative person I've ever seen! No one "changes" languages; people in England certainly can't go back to speaking Middle English; a language is alive and cannot help but develop (even when active steps are taken to prevent this as in France). But still, people can object to the loss (or threat of loss) of a region's uniqueness, even try to do somthing to preserve it.

    Doesn't it bother you that you hardly ever hear the New York accent anymore, and everyone increasingly talks like the cast of Friends?
 
 
 
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