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Immagration (legal or not) creates jobs

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Reply 20

Asert

Nick_000

It was joke. Hence the :p:

So what is the British 'culture' ? Cricket on the green? Tea and crumpets? Sunday roast after church? Fish and chips? What is it?

Immigration********

Grammar Nazi! Heil!

Carl

You see, instead of offering a solution to our current problem, you dismiss me as whiny and then make an irrelevant comment (migrants are here, and only the BNP is suggesting they be sent home). What is your solution? Why don't you address the points in my post? You're like all modern politicians, preferring to ignore current problems, blame them on the predeccesors, and avoid even examining the hard decisions that need to be taken to reach a solution. Radical reform is needed in many areas of policy (especially immigration reform), and yet the best you can come up with is "if they don't like it they should not have come". Well done, I hope you get your Nobel Prize.

My solution is for the governement to get tough with the workshy. The TUC are warning of 4 million unemployed yet you're telling me we need immigration to sustain our workforce? Sheer madness. We need to stop people taking benefits as a form of wage.

Unskilled immigrants are doing the jobs the unemployed should be doing but aren't because they have a comfortable existence thanks to Labours ridiculous stance on welfare.

Reply 24

Nick_000

Asert

So what is the British 'culture' ? Cricket on the green? Tea and crumpets? Sunday roast after church? Fish and chips? What is it?

The Proms, The monarchy, great literature, history, socialising, democracy, The BBC, sporting events, country life, Westminster....

I don't know. I guess it differs to many. The British way of life definitely isn't women dressing like Ninjas and bombs being planted on a bus/tube.

Reply 25

Asert

Nick_000

well then **** better deport me with the next batch because despite being born here i havent integrated :[

Reply 26

Lefty Leo

Asert

well then **** better deport me with the next batch because despite being born here i havent integrated :[

If you consider yourself something other than firstly British (and this includes being willing to fight and die for your country if the situation demands it), then get a passport that reflects your true loyalties and get a permanent residence visa in the UK :smile:

Reply 27

Carl

Nick_000

Perhaps if migrants were free to come and go, then the rate of migration (both in and out) would be closer in line with the current job market (i.e. half of all immigrants from Poland have gone back following the economic downturn). Sure, dealing with the British workshy will help fill vacancies, but if you are going down the line of British jobs for British workers then give me a break. We need to lose this perception that immigration's only role is to full unfilled British jobs. This is wrong on two counts: they are not "British jobs" and Britons have no more right to that job than anyone else, as employers can choose broadly who they want; secondly it's not like we have a surplus of work (and we probably haven't since post WWII reconstruction) and yet Britain has managed to sustain population growth of 10million since 1939, some of which is down to immigration. The job market is not a zero-sum game and incomers do not neccesarily take a job that a Brit would otherwise have had.

Britons need to face up to the harsh realities of the global job market, and if they won't go out and get jobs, then other people (no matter what country they come from) should be entitled to chase those jobs. Perhaps welfare-reform could work in line with migration policy reform. I'm sure all the extra competition for jobs, along with remove benefits, would kick a lot of people from the living room and headlong into the workplace.

Reply 28

Asert

Lefty Leo

Wait so because I don't conform to Nick's standards of British culture you think I should surrender my citizenship? Cool, at least everyone here is on the same wavelength.

Reply 29

Aeolus

Nick_000

.

Unskilled immigrants are doing the jobs the unemployed should be doing but aren't because they have a comfortable existence thanks to Labours ridiculous stance on welfare.

You do realise that unskilled immmigrants also create jobs? There isn't a set amount of jobs.

Reply 30

Gremlins

Nick_000

The Proms

So if you don't like the Proms you're not British? Are we going to make everyone applying for citizenship take a classical music appreciation course?

The monarchy

So you can't be a British and a republican? Guess I'll hand my passport in.

great literature

Most countries have great literature.

The point is that there's nothing wrong with any of these things, but it's all a highly subjective and personalised list of aspects of "Britishness" you like, and it's not right for you to try and force other people to conform to it.

I don't know. I guess it differs to many. The British way of life definitely isn't women dressing like Ninjas

Actually until relatively recently, women had to cover their hands and hair before leaving the house.

and bombs being planted on a bus/tube.

Britain has a long and distinguished history of being subject to terrorist attacks :yep:

Funnily enough, it's generally a result of British cultural and economic imperialism.

Reply 31

CandyFlipper

I support open-border immigration policy in theory, but to want it in practise would require numerous changes - I'll list some of those now but there may be more I've missed out:

- The UK would have to embrace free trade with all countries in the world (except maybe some political situations, e.g. I wouldn't want us to sell weapons to Mugabe) ... this is absolutely essential for allowing the third world to develop, and the more developed the third world is, the less they'll want/need to move.

- The UK would have to cut benefits substancially to make it enough to feed yourself with, but not enough to buy sky TV on, as in incentive to find work. Job seekers allowance should be more than benefits, wheras at the moment its £50 a week vs £170 per week ... how is that an incentive to find work?

- The UK should adopt an insurance based health care system which would ensure that immigrants are paying for their own healthcare rather than relying on indigenous taxpayers; though of course there should be strict governmental restrictions on insurance companies, and perhaps a public insurance option could compete fairly against private companies (somthing very similar to Obamacare in other words.)

- I would like to see some kind of obligation to learn English, although I object to taxpayers money being spent on this, so look into a method of achieving this.

- An end to the practise of lumping all ethnic groups into the same areas, which prevents integration, spread all races out.

- The law should strictly forbid forced marriages; and it will never consider pandering to misognist or homophobic laws that foreign cultures may encourage. Plus freedom of speech will prevail at all times, and all blasphemy laws even for Christianity ought to be abolished.

Reply 32

bennh

DOA

I have heard people talk about how they take jobs well I thought about this but they create jobs because the civil service needs more stafff to deal with them.
Thoughts?

This is actually true.

People who say "immigrants take jobs" are being incredibly simplistic: think about it, if the population was 60 million, do you really think that there are exactly 60 million jobs, and one more person in the country taking a job would mean one unemployed person? Erm, no. Not that simple.

Reply 33

Gremlins

CandyFlipper

- I would like to see some kind of obligation to learn English, although I object to taxpayers money being spent on this, so look into a method of achieving this.

Why? The UK has no de iure official language anyway.

Reply 34

Asert

Gremlins

So you can't be a British and a republican? Guess I'll hand my passport in.

According to Lefty Leo, that's exactly what you should do.

The point is that there's nothing wrong with any of these things, but it's all a highly subjective and personalised list of aspects of "Britishness" you like, and it's not right for you to try and force other people to conform to it.

Maybe it's got nothing to do with culture or a British way of life after all....

Funnily enough, it's generally a result of British cultural and economic imperialism.

THEY HATE US BECAUSE OF OUR FREEDOMS!!!!

Reply 35

Collingwood

Gremlins

Actually until relatively recently, women had to cover their hands and hair before leaving the house.

lol wat

Britain has a long and distinguished history of being subject to terrorist attacks :yep:

Funnily enough, it's generally a result of British cultural and economic imperialism.
Interesting logic, but I'm pretty sure it would justify the holocaust if you really believe Britain was responsible for IRA bombings of random civilians.

Reply 36

CandyFlipper

Gremlins

Why? The UK has no de iure official language anyway.

Well I'd like to see English as the official language and an obligation to learn it, because it promotes integration between different cultures and its also economically beneficial for everybody to understand eachother.

Meanwhile in schools whilst English must be compulsory, and english literacy should be a requirement of all primary schools, I'd like to see more languages on offer in more schools e.g. arabic, urdu, farsi rather than only german, french and spanish - and see more emphais on English speakers learning other languages which again would help with integration.

This was one of my more minor points though, no need to focus exclusively on it ...

Reply 37

Nick_000

Gremlins

So if you don't like the Proms you're not British? Are we going to make everyone applying for citizenship take a classical music appreciation course?

So you can't be a British and a republican? Guess I'll hand my passport in.

Most countries have great literature.

The point is that there's nothing wrong with any of these things, but it's all a highly subjective and personalised list of aspects of "Britishness" you like, and it's not right for you to try and force other people to conform to it.

Actually until relatively recently, women had to cover their hands and hair before leaving the house.

Britain has a long and distinguished history of being subject to terrorist attacks :yep:

Funnily enough, it's generally a result of British cultural and economic imperialism.

I was merely providing examples of what I percieve to be British traits and acknowledged these would differ to many.

Reply 38

Asert

Collingwood

Interesting logic, but I'm pretty sure it would justify the holocaust if you really believe Britain was responsible for IRA bombings of random civilians.

wait what

Reply 39

Collingwood

Asert

wait what

"Cultural and economic imperialism". Read: immigrants, British people getting government jobs, British ownership of companies and success in business. Apparently this justifies killing ethnically British people at random. The logic seems identical to me.