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    (Original post by makeshiftwings)
    I take it you passed with none? Or that every time you drive, you do it test standard? I don't like people like you.
    ooh sorry for being a good enough safe enough driver to pass first time.
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    it's about being a good driver, it's about being a safe driver, it's about defensive driving and anticipating the actions of other drivers. you should ALWAYS expect for some idiot to pull out in front of you, cut you up, drive in an unsafe way. if you don't, then you're not only putting yourself and your passengers at risk, but you're also risking the lives of pedestrians and other drivers, such as myself.

    if the dvla dont consider you a good enough driver to drive alone on the roads, then i don't want you have a drivers license. i value my life, thanks all the same. i think any other sensible drivers will agree.

    dangerous driving, whether intentional or by mistake, causes death.
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    (Original post by kidney thief)
    :dito: it was my examiner's discretion that allowed me to pass in the end. if i'd made the same mistake as i did when i passed (3rd time) with the examiner who took my 1st and 2nd (according to my instructor) i'd have failed again. generally, its the younger examiners who dont have enough experience to trust and exercise their discretion that stick rigidly and clinically to the rules

    Totaly agree with that, i passed second time round and i failed the first time because of hesitation at a busy roundabout, tell me how taking your time over maneuvers is a risk to your safety lozza? I also assume you passed with no minors? as they could of course lead to accidents according to your line of thought.
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    They ARE delibrately(horrible spellings) failing people to increase the revenue.
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    (Original post by Lamarr)
    Totaly agree with that, i passed second time round and i failed the first time because of hesitation at a busy roundabout, tell me how taking your time over maneuvers is a risk to your safety lozza?
    Excess hesitation is a safety risk, because it will frustrate those behind you and encourage people to make dangerous overtaking manoevres to get through quicker - unfortunately people do stupid things when they are being held up - I'm sure you have experience as a learner of people cutting you up, overtaking dangerously, etc.
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    taking this example, one person may get an examiner who thinks "omg, this person hesitated 2 seconds more than the DVLA approved time for observation at junctions, i must fail them for excess hesitation" whereas another may think "well, he/she has taken longer than necessary, but they've generally driven well and pose no safety risk. pass."

    all other things being equal, is person 1 a worse driver than person 2?
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    (Original post by Lamarr)
    Totaly agree with that, i passed second time round and i failed the first time because of hesitation at a busy roundabout, tell me how taking your time over maneuvers is a risk to your safety lozza? I also assume you passed with no minors? as they could of course lead to accidents according to your line of thought.
    example: there's a roundabout at the end of an expressway near my house. it has traffic lights, hence when they show green you can go onto the roundabout. a woman braked ("hesistated") and didn't go forwards. cue driver behind almost crashing into the back of her and several other drivers beeping their horns. (i wasn't the driver behind her).

    had someone been not so great at braking and reacting fast, when this woman slammed on, they would have gone in the back of her (which would have been their fault even though the woman had no reason to brake).

    if you sit at a roundabout forever and don't go when you could do like a first time learner, then you obviously don't know how to drive!
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    (Original post by kidney thief)
    taking this example, one person may get an examiner who thinks "omg, this person hesitated 2 seconds more than the DVLA approved time for observation at junctions, i must fail them for excess hesitation" whereas another may think "well, he/she has taken longer than necessary, but they've generally driven well and pose no safety risk. pass."

    all other things being equal, is person 1 a worse driver than person 2?
    they wouldn't fail you for something like that. that would be a minor. you have to get sh*t loads of minors to fail.

    if you do something daft you get a major. then you fail.

    edit: basically if they consider you to not be safe on the roads alone, have poor driving skills or judgement, then they'll fail you.
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    (Original post by Sleep)
    If you do not, what the **** is the point of the test?

    If everyone just drove carefully and to the best of their abilities all the time and stuck to t he rules of the road. there would be virtually no accidents. As it is, there are a huge number of accidents and most people are in at least one or two in their driving career, all because of poor drivers and people like you who cant be bothered to concentrate properly when driving :mad:

    You've just got to be fully aware of the road and of drivers around you and concentrating fully; if not you need a sharp reminder that cars are bloody dangerous things imo.
    Surely there's a difference between driving safely and driving to test standard? Are you telling me you always put your handbrake on whenever you change direction in a three point turn? Or you never go at 31 mph in a clear 30? What about overtaking, surely its safer to break the speed limit to overtake a car travelling at 65 mph than it is to take ages getting past it at 70?
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    I passed mine first time with no minors. But I'm pretty sure I made a mistake or two and my examiner was just looking down my top :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Lozza)
    example: there's a roundabout at the end of an expressway near my house. it has traffic lights, hence when they show green you can go onto the roundabout. a woman braked ("hesistated") and didn't go forwards. cue driver behind almost crashing into the back of her and several other drivers beeping their horns. (i wasn't the driver behind her).

    had someone been not so great at braking and reacting fast, when this woman slammed on, they would have gone in the back of her (which would have been their fault even though the woman had no reason to brake).

    if you sit at a roundabout forever and don't go when you could do like a first time learner, then you obviously don't know how to drive!
    this is a bad example.

    you're talking about a traffic light controlled roundabout. the degree of observation and decision making required (and hence being cautious or "hesitant") is not the same as at an ordinary roundabout. furthermore, braking sharply for no reason after setting off is not the same as making doublely sure traffic is clear before going into the roundabout.
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    (Original post by Mishael)
    Surely there's a difference between driving safely and driving to test standard? Are you telling me you always put your handbrake on whenever you change direction in a three point turn? Or you never go at 31 mph in a clear 30? What about overtaking, surely its safer to break the speed limit to overtake a car travelling at 65 mph than it is to take ages getting past it at 70?
    that shows me that you are unsafe on the roads.

    if it is a single-lane carriageway, then 60 is the speed limit and hence you should have no need to overtake a car doing 65.

    if it is a dual carriageway, the car doing 65 will be in the inside lane, or if is in the outside lane, will be overtaking, and hence you will not be able to overtake.
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    (Original post by kidney thief)
    this is a bad example.

    you're talking about a traffic light controlled roundabout. the degree of observation and decision making required (and hence being cautious or "hesitant") is not the same as at an ordinary roundabout. furthermore, braking sharply for no reason after setting off is not the same as making doublely sure traffic is clear before going into the roundabout.
    you obviously hesistated in a way that was dangerous to yourself and other cars otherwise you wouldn't have failed. there's no point in arguing over this; you failed, you made a mistake. this can cost you your life. end of story.

    edit: i'm not saying i don't make mistakes; everyone does. i'm saying that the people who fail obviously make too many to be considered safe to drive unsupervised. being bad at driving is nothing to be ashamed of. thinking you're better than you are is though.
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    (Original post by Lozza)
    you obviously hesistated in a way that was dangerous to yourself and other cars otherwise you wouldn't have failed. there's no point in arguing over this; you failed, you made a mistake. this can cost you your life. end of story.

    edit: i'm not saying i don't make mistakes; everyone does. i'm saying that the people who fail obviously make too many to be considered safe to drive unsupervised. being bad at driving is nothing to be ashamed of. thinking you're better than you are is though.
    ^ just to make it clear, i wasnt talking about me personally in my last post :rolleyes:

    the point im making is that not driving to the standard required to pass a driving test doesnt necessarily mean you are a bad, unsafe driver. your driving ability during the test is, to a degree, being scrutinised subjectively. this means that i am not foolish to say (as you put in your original post) that a factor in wether or not you pass depends on the discretion of the examiner and the experience they have had in spotting the difference between safe and dangerous drivers and if they are prepared to exercise their judgement in overlooking some of the perhaps unpolished areas of your driving if, on the whole, your driving test shows you to be a good and safe driver
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    (Original post by makeshiftwings)
    Second time now, this is beyond a joke. I've been driving for over a year, and have my own car to practise in.
    Why do I keep failing??
    FYI - First time blind spot checking, second time observation (when a car sped past me at about 50 in a 30 area).
    Unlucky.

    Don't give up! It will be third time lucky! :cool:
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    (Original post by makeshiftwings)
    Second time now, this is beyond a joke. I've been driving for over a year, and have my own car to practise in.
    Why do I keep failing??
    FYI - First time blind spot checking, second time observation (when a car sped past me at about 50 in a 30 area).

    Don't give I failed my test as well and rebooked it straight away for the beginning of July. And I've been learning for a year and 4 months!!

    So don't worry!!!
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    (Original post by bodhisattva)
    Let's get things into perspective. As soon as 95% of people go for their first celebratary drive after passing their test, 50% of them make a potentially FATAL driving error - FACT.
    NOT fact. Tosh.
    No remotely scientific way of measuring this.
    Unlikely to be true.
    "Potentially fatal driving error" is very open-ended anyway.

    Within 3 months - the rule book has gone out of the window, to be replaced with the "get out of my way I'm late for a meeting" mentality.
    Uhh, well maybe for you. Actually in my experience and the experience of my friends a little initial "exuberance" is soon tempered. (Sadly by experience in some cases)

    To be a SAFE driver - it's wise to become psychic so you can anticipate the moves of the OTHER morons on the road.
    Consider this. If RANDOM re-testing were introduced - would YOU pass?
    Yes psychic would be great. Since I'm not, I'll just buy a car that keeps me safest from the morons. (Landcruiser or whatever :cool: )
    Would I pass? Probably not Does that mean I'm not safe, no.
    I genuinely believe I am safer now than just after I passed my test.
    You can't beat experience.
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    (Original post by Slice'N'Dice)
    Unlucky.

    Don't give up! It will be third time lucky! :cool:
    I certainly hope so, although my confidence is a bit knoocked now, and my Dad is so disappointed with me that he had to get out and go down the pub .
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    (Original post by Mishael)
    Are you telling me you always put your handbrake on whenever you change direction in a three point turn?
    I'd just like to point out that YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT ON YOUR TEST. Sorry for the caps but it annoys me because I keep hearing that, and it's wrong! As long as you keep the car under control, you don't have to use the handbrake on the turn in the road. I didn't, and I passed.
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    The point isn't about hoops in the test. The point is that passing through the hoops means you have good control and confidence in the car (if you have a better way to keep morons off the road send it to the government!).

    I really think you over-rate the effect of the examiners. You cannot simply assert that older examiners are more likely to pass you. Examiners in general must stick to the rule-book- surely this is necessary and they must be well-regulated for something as important as driving tests. I really think you over-rate the effect to which the examiner makes a difference.

    As one guy said, if you do something insignificant, you get a minor, and need a hell of a lot of minors to pass. If you do something dumb, you get a major. Its not too hard; I don't really think the examiner can make a huge difference in this.
 
 
 
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