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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Ideas please.
    Won if American Admininstration stops ****ing around with International Relations...stop being arrogant, selfish fools, do something with poverty, Africa, Sudan, elsewhere - if they are seen doing this, they will be showering themselves in positive light - have more respect and dignity. The amount of money US spends of Arms, its sick. There are priorities further up the agenda than this Iraq war....woeful prioritization i say. :eek:
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    (Original post by wizard)
    Won if American Admininstration stops ****ing around with International Relations...stop being arrogant, selfish fools, do something with poverty, Africa, Sudan, elsewhere - if they are seen doing this, they will be showering themselves in positive light - have more respect and dignity. The amount of money US spends of Arms, its sick. There are priorities further up the agenda than this Iraq war....woeful prioritization i say. :eek:
    America spends less on its military as percentage of GDP than Turkey, Bosnia, Greece, and Cyprus, and less than most states in the Middle East.
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    A useful beginning would be to stop using terms like "the war on terror" and instead to analyse the causes and reasons for various acts of terrorism objectively.
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    Wars on nouns never work out, look at the 'war on drugs'. When will the 'war on terror' end? when terrorism does, ie. never.
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    There IS no war on terror. It's lets get money day in the white house
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    (Original post by sherunsaway)
    Notice how I used the plural "bombs". That means more than one, and therefore multiple countries could be simultaneously be blown up by bush, or blair, or putin, or chiraq, or howard.
    Don't put me anywhere near any red buttons. I have a very itchy finger.
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    (Original post by cambridgemuscle)
    you only take into account the defensive side of this war. i agree homeland security should be tightened and intelligence made as reliable as possible.

    you seem to think we should implement fortress Britain and America, protected by the Atalantic and the channel and with so much security internally, no terrorists could possibly operate. You don't see the wider picture, that it is our values that must be exported to actually eliminate the threat completely. by ensuring democracy is spread worldwide and tyranny is made extinct we will create a situation in which we no longer have to lok aver our backs, live in fear and invest huge sums in homeland security which otherwise could be spent on more constructive projects. If we go on the hunt for mosters abroad then we do not have to fight them on our streets.
    ur ideas are quite good. However I only think that they are possible if agression and violence are used. How are you going to promote democratic regime in Iran or North Korea?You can, but it would be the same thing as Iraq - invasion and war and this will require much more moeny than homeland security.
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    (Original post by JonnyB)
    There IS no war on terror. It's lets get money day in the white house
    Iraq has cost $176 billion. the white house will make no money from it. they will however produce a functioning democracy which will spread our values into a baron region.

    If the oil firms make money then that is but a secondary consequence. The oil firms did not push for war. The link between Bush, Cheney and the oil industry is silly and superficial. If they had have lived in Kansas they would have made their fortunes in wheat. Would they have invaded Canada- no. If they were Californians they'd have invested in tech firms. Would they have invaded Japan- no. the conspiracy theroies are bullsiht. Iraq was invaded because it oppressed its own people, was at odds with our values and posed a possible threat on a variety of levels.
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    (Original post by IZZY!)
    ur ideas are quite good. However I only think that they are possible if agression and violence are used. How are you going to promote democratic regime in Iran or North Korea?You can, but it would be the same thing as Iraq - invasion and war and this will require much more moeny than homeland security.
    Iran i seriously believe there is the possiblity of regime change without the use of our force. The student dissident groups are growing strong and the mullahs can only use force to repress them for so long. Iran is infinitely different to NK. It is not a nuclear power, it's people have the internet and CNN and we've got quater of a million men on its doorstep. We have the carrot but they also know that we are not afraid to use the stick. Either the mullahs reform or we sponsor their overthrow, followed by a concerted effort to install a democratic government. I don't see a problem if this government is somewhat theocratic. it will need to be for a healthy transition, but it must operate within a demoratic constitution which will have to be written in the tradition of Madison, Hamilton and Jay.
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    (Original post by cambridgemuscle)
    Iran i seriously believe there is the possiblity of regime change without the use of our force. The student dissident groups are growing strong and the mullahs can only use force to repress them for so long. Iran is infinitely different to NK. It is not a nuclear power, it's people have the internet and CNN and we've got quater of a million men on its doorstep. We have the carrot but they also know that we are not afraid to use the stick. Either the mullahs reform or we sponsor their overthrow, followed by a concerted effort to install a democratic government. I don't see a problem if this government is somewhat theocratic. it will need to be for a healthy transition, but it must operate within a demoratic constitution which will have to be written in the tradition of Madison, Hamilton and Jay.
    a regime change doesn't necessarily mean an end to 'terror' and 'terrorism' though
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    (Original post by laura789)
    u poor deluded fool
    i like to think idealistic.
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    The war will end when AMERICA HAS ITS EMPIRE!!!!
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    (Original post by _Jax_)
    The war will end when AMERICA HAS ITS EMPIRE!!!!
    lol.....yes dear
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    (Original post by laura789)
    a regime change doesn't necessarily mean an end to 'terror' and 'terrorism' though
    Have two liberal democracies ever gone to war? If you could find an example i'd be happy to hear it.

    Terror is almost as clear cut. Irish Americans pass the hat around to donate to the IRA, as do those in Eire and even within the UK itself. However, these are groups of ethnically or ideologically interested poeple. Eire as a state does not sponsor terrorism against the UK even though the IRA has their interests quite close at heart. It would be unthinkable. Democratic governments which stay true to their constitutions, as open and trasparant budget making entities would find it impossible to siphon funds to less than viruous causes. Look at the Iran Contra scandal.
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    (Original post by _Jax_)
    The war will end when AMERICA HAS ITS EMPIRE!!!!
    *******S. If America was an empire what's Cuba doing there???
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    (Original post by cambridgemuscle)
    Have two liberal democracies ever gone to war? If you could find an example i'd be happy to hear it.

    Terror is almost as clear cut. Irish Americans pass the hat around to donate to the IRA, as do those in Eire and even within the UK itself. However, these are groups of ethnically or ideologically interested poeple. Eire as a state does not sponsor terrorism against the UK even though the IRA has their interests quite close at heart. It would be unthinkable. Democratic governments which stay true to their constitutions, as open and trasparant budget making entities would find it impossible to siphon funds to less than viruous causes. Look at the Iran Contra scandal.
    so in your eyes the IRA are not terrorists?
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    (Original post by laura789)
    so in your eyes the IRA are not terrorists?
    yes. but they are not sposored by any liberal democratic state. that's my point.
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    (Original post by cambridgemuscle)
    Have two liberal democracies ever gone to war? If you could find an example i'd be happy to hear it.
    There isn't any sign that Iraq is a liberal democracy, or on its way to becoming a liberal democracy, however. A dubious election with religiously oriented parties led by unknown individuals and dependent on foreign occupiers for their security doesn't exactly count.
    Certainly, as an investment of 176 thousand million dollars it seems to have been a complete waste of money: the Iraqi people are no freer, happier, safer or wealthier; there are no fewer weapons of mass destruction than before the war; no oil is coming out and the allegedly massive contracts for US oil companies that the loopier conspiracy theorists thought inspired the war haven't emerged.
    It has given a boost to the loopier islamist bigots and a place to attack Americans- again, the iraqi people aren't exactly benefitting from this.
    In short, except as a way to get the US army out of America for some unknown purpose it has been a complete disaster. The alarming thing is that the US government doesn't seem to have noticed that.
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    ok i understand now. but they still exist WITHIN a democratic state. my point is simply that even if every country became a liberal democracy as we percieve one to be in the west, surely terrorism will still exist. therefore terrorism cannot be stopped.
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    (Original post by cambridgemuscle)
    *******S. If America was an empire what's Cuba doing there???
    They need Cuba to stay a communist dictatorship, without good old Cuba Gbay wouldn't be allowed would it?
 
 
 
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