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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    It is not the only way. Read the whole thread.
    Common sense tells me that if there was another way, a government right now would be doing it to get ahead.
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    Because you'd run into a burning building for £20k wouldn't you?
    erm the figures are something like 44 applicants for each firefighter vacancy in London. This suggests that if their pay was reduced slightly, there would still be plenty of people to run into burning buildings.
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    (Original post by material breach)
    Common sense tells me that if there was another way, a government right now would be doing it to get ahead.
    And face the wrath of the left? You are fortunate in not knowing how our magnificent government operates.
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    And face the wrath of the left? You are fortunate in not knowing how our magnificent government operates.
    With presumptions like this debate with you is pointless.
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    (Original post by material breach)
    With presumptions like this debate with you is pointless.
    Excuse me? You are the one with nonsensical arguments:

    "Common sense tells me that if there was another way, a government right now would be doing it to get ahead"

    So unless a government tries an idea, it doesn't exist?
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    Excuse me? You are the one with nonsensical arguments:

    "Common sense tells me that if there was another way, a government right now would be doing it to get ahead"

    So unless a government tries an idea, it doesn't exist?
    You just effectively said that I don't know anything about my own government, clearly if you think that you are never going to be receptive to any idea put to you by me, so even if I do explain what is put above then you aren't going to care.
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    erm the figures are something like 44 applicants for each firefighter vacancy in London. This suggests that if their pay was reduced slightly, there would still be plenty of people to run into burning buildings.
    so because there are alot they should be payed less? Despite the fact there job is life threatening?
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    (Original post by material breach)
    You just effectively said that I don't know anything about my own government, clearly if you think that you are never going to be receptive to any idea put to you by me, so even if I do explain what is put above then you aren't going to care.
    What?!
    You asked what other alternatives to taxation there were.
    I told you to look at the start of the thread where the alternatives were discussed.
    Then you said that there aren't any ideas because the government isn't trying any.

    That is a nonsensical argument - just because the government isn't trying something, doesn't mean it won't work.

    What are you trying to say?
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    so because there are alot they should be payed less? Despite the fact there job is life threatening?
    Why do we pay people for work? Because they wouldn't do it otherwise. If there are that many people willing to do the work, surely it means you can pay them slightly less and they would still do it?
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    They run into burning buildings, save people lives surely you don't begrudge them a fair wage?
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    On top of that you have conplained about people spending your money for you but in the United Kingdom that right to voice complaint comes from that fact it is a democracy and part of that is that you accept at election time the party voted in and the legislation they pass. Hence you accept their right also to collect taxes and spend them as they see fit. If you dont like that, move to somewhere else.

    Since when did was the majority right because it is the majority?

    If i live in a street filled with crime and move does that excuse the crimes?
    This attitude of accpeting things because thats they way they are is absurd. If others had thought like that we would still people in a state of nature.

    Aslo I have addressed you 'arguments' in my early posts on this thread?
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    They run into burning buildings, save people lives surely you don't begrudge them a fair wage?
    Of course not. I think that a fair wage is the amount that people are willing to work for. I think that many would still want to become firefighters if they were paid less, so less would be fair.
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    They run into burning buildings, save people lives surely you don't begrudge them a fair wage?
    They deserve a fair wage. And that should be decided by the market not your morals or that of a pen pusher. Who are you to say what is the right wage ? Who are any one body/group to say what is the right wage? The market is an immense body taken in great amounts of information thus this is the best way.

    If we used you line of thinking why dont we give them 100,000 a year or 200, 000, while we're at it lets give soldiers 500,000 a year. This would lead to economic ruin, thats why the market is the best sytem as it is self regulating. Humans arnt.
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    They deserve a fair wage. And that should be decided by the market not your morals or that of a pen pusher. Who are you to say what is the right wage ? Who are any one body/group to say what is the right wage? The market is an immense body taken in great amounts of information thus this is the best way.
    Its better I say than you, if it were up to they'd have no job. This is the kind of thing the market can't account for because surely if we lived in a market, no tax economy they could strike with no conscience and then they'd probably be paid more anyway.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Theft is the taking of someone else's property without that person's willful consent. Are those who dont give consent vicitms of theft? Is it theft but still accpetbale since it is used for supposedly good ends?

    Read this for some background
    http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/polin/polin044.pdf#
    Tell you what, we'll give everyone their stolen money back, and shut down hospitals, schools, police stations ...
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    Its better I say than you, if it were up to they'd have no job. This is the kind of thing the market can't account for because surely if we lived in a market, no tax economy they could strike with no conscience and then they'd probably be paid more anyway.

    Are you saying the fact we have a strong welfare state makes people have a conscience? Does big government make people know the difference between right and wrong? If so you have very little faith in people.

    Of course they'd have a job. We dont have state bakers but we still have bakers. Thats because there is a demand for them, just like there will always be a demand for firefighters. Thus private companies will offer their services, just like the AA does when people are in a car emergency.
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    (Original post by rachaelmarie)
    Its better I say than you, if it were up to they'd have no job. This is the kind of thing the market can't account for because surely if we lived in a market, no tax economy they could strike with no conscience and then they'd probably be paid more anyway.
    No. Do you see many strikes in the private sector?
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    (Original post by inequality)
    Tell you what, we'll give everyone their stolen money back, and shut down hospitals, schools, police stations ...
    Its not stolen money. I suggest you actaully read my past posts on this thread and than have some arguments which i have not yet countered.

    Also i do not propose shutting down police stations. I offer a different way of funding them as you would know if you had read my posts.
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    Are you saying the fact we have a strong welfare state makes people have a conscience? Does big government make people know the difference between right and wrong? If so you have very little faith in people.

    Of course they'd have a job. We dont have state bakers but we still have bakers. Thats because there is a demand for them, just like there will always be a demand for firefighters. Thus private companies will offer their services, just like the AA does when people are in a car emergency.
    Won't that be wonderful! Entrusting your life to people who's primary concern isn't saving lives but making money. If you need evidence of how privatisation damages service, consider the absurd situation we currently have on the railways, where high speed trains are forced to run behind slow stopping trains because private companies, in their desire to make a quick buck, decided to remove the rails that would have otherwise allowed them to overtake. In the case of trains this means uncomfortable journies- in that of emergancy serivces it would mean lost lives.
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    (Original post by DaftPunk)
    Won't that be wonderful! Entrusting your life to people who's primary concern isn't saving lives but making money. If you need evidence of how privatisation damages service, consider the absurd situation we currently have on the railways, where high speed trains are forced to run behind slow stopping trains because private companies, in their desire to make a quick buck, decided to remove the rails that would have otherwise allowed them to overtake. In the case of trains this means uncomfortable journies- in that of emergancy serivces it would mean lost lives.
    That is one example. How many examples of private companies doing better are there that show improvement?
    Would you rather go into an NHS hospital or a private one to have surgery?
 
 
 
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