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Britain's Rebate watch

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    Does anyone else think that the issue of Britain's rebate is being used as a smokescreen to distract attention away form the recent No votes in France and Holland?

    I believe that it has been used as a deliberate and organised effort by France and Germany to avoid discussing the potential crisis caused by the public votes against the EU Constitution. Britain is being used as the EU's scapegoat.
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    I agree this issue is being used as a smokescreen. Also we must not give in, we should take the initiative and call for the abolition of CAP.
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    Yes that is likely. I think Chirac is also trying to lay the blame for teh constitution and the failings of Europe on Britain. So the constitution was perverted by those anglo-Saxons, and now look, those Englishmen are taking away our farmers' money too! I just hope Tony keeps giving him the finger.
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    Yes, it is being used by France to hid the effect of the no-vote.

    It is a very disgraceful act and M. Chirac should be ashamed.

    He is also being very hypocritical over it all, saying Britain should chnage and pay more while his own country should not. But if antyone has a rigth to complain over the amount the UK pays it is Germany and the Netherlands, as they already pay more per person than we do. The like of the French, who's net input per person is much less than the UK pays has nothing to base this argument on. But even then, the other countries have no right to 'gang up' one memebrs to try and get change.

    I support Mr Blairs stance on all this: nothing will change about the UK rebate unless there is a massive overhaul of the who finacial make-up of the EU.

    France gets to much in agricultural susidies and Spain gets way way way too much out over all (they receive over 8 billion (either dollors, pounds or euros, not sure which) more out of the EU than they pay in...that is more than the net payment into the EU of about half a dozen countries...that is unfair).

    So if others want the British rebate to be debated, they should eb willing to make huge changes to their own finances. Otherwise they should shut up and be content with how things are now.
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    I think its great the way Chirac is asking for us to return our rebate as a sign of commitment to the EU, when his country so spectacularly binned the EU constitution - definate smokescreen!
    The pure statistics show britain pays 4x as much into the EU as france, which would be 15 times as much if we returned our rebate.
    Also, the CAP represents 40% of the EU's expenditure, which is virtually split in two between france and germany - that is definately not democratic.
    Also, since france has more history of disobeying the EU rulings than any other nation (a prime example being british beef...), surely it would be time for them to show that they dont think the EU is just a sponge that sits in their pocket for them to squeeze over their fields to rain gold down on its farmers...
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    (Original post by John82)
    Does anyone else think that the issue of Britain's rebate is being used as a smokescreen to distract attention away form the recent No votes in France and Holland?

    I believe that it has been used as a deliberate and organised effort by France and Germany to avoid discussing the potential crisis caused by the public votes against the EU Constitution. Britain is being used as the EU's scapegoat.
    I'll tell you this. I'm liberal, but, I think if they manage to take our rebate, we should respond simply by pulling out the EU and withdrawing to the position of the swiss - free trade but without paying for the privelege.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    I'll tell you this. I'm liberal, but, I think if they manage to take our rebate, we should respond simply by pulling out the EU and withdrawing to the position of the swiss - free trade but without paying for the privelege.


    I honestly do not understand how France can call it unjustified.

    It seems like everyone is out there to get Britain. Working directives one week, Britains rebate the next.
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    It's the cheekiest thing I could ever have imagined. The game should be well and truly up for Chirac, why isn't it? A country which pays so much less than us in the first place, is on a moral low ground with respect to the CAP and world development, and has just lost a referendum on something his predecessor wrote is starting arguments with us? WHY are we trying to go further into a legislating union with such conniving imbeciles?
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)


    I honestly do not understand how France can call it unjustified.

    It seems like everyone is out there to get Britain. Working directives one week, Britains rebate the next.
    its the cheek of the guy to demand we drop the rebate and slam us for not budging, and in same breath say they aren't budging over the CAP.

    Germany, Netherlands, Sweden you can understand - they pay more than us.
    France can rot in hell. How they treated us over the beef and F&M debarcles was a joke
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    This thread is resulting in all of us Brits getting rid of our frustrations and old hatred against the French!

    The feeling is obviously mutual.

    Is there any possibility that the re-negotiating of the CAP would cause the demise of the EU since so many of the participants have a societal composition based around farming?

    And could Britain be blamed for the demise because they were judged as being spiteful in calling the CAP to account because of the threat of withdrawl of our rebate?

    The ramifications of all this are far more damaging that the 'smokescreen' suggested by some.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Is there any possibility that the re-negotiating of the CAP would cause the demise of the EU since so many of the participants have a societal composition based around farming?
    The demise of the EU will be as a result of unflexible work markets, the Euro and further integration into a superstate. The CAP is just a way of prolonging a slow death.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    It seems like everyone is out there to get Britain. Working directives one week, Britains rebate the next.
    I cannot understand why we don't pull out of the European Union - it's so bureaucratic and against our interests that we're foolish to carry on. We should not only give up the rebate, but stop plunging money into Europe in the first place. That way, we can decide our own working hours, establish our own, fair, British agricultural subsidies and move away from the rest of Europe, who are consistently trying to scrap our right to veto over our national interests.

    As regards the title of the topic, Chirac needs to avoid personal embarassment - if he augments European fears about the British rebate, there's no pressure on him to answer why France rejected his treaty so comprehensively.
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    I think the rebate has been an issue of contention for some time. I think perhaps the timing of the meeting of European Leaders is convenient for Chirac to raise this issue ssince it does also deflect attention from the non vote.

    If they want us to have our rebate decreased, then France needs to put more money in.
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    Can anyone provide a link or two listing the EU input and output of member states?
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    (Original post by JonD)
    Can anyone provide a link or two listing the EU input and output of member states?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h..._pays_what.stm
    THis part shops who recieves net, and who gives net - but note that it isn't adjusted for population size. Hence sweden and netherlands although both giving 1 and 2bn euros respectively actually pay more per head than germany (7.7 bn on the graph).

    THis page shows just contributions (not what anyone gets out of it), showing the size of our rebate, and effect on other countries payments.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h.../uk_rebate.stm

    Basically france is the one trying to screw us, so that they can get a bit more cash out of us.

    (Original post by Vienna)
    The demise of the EU will be as a result of unflexible work markets, the Euro and further integration into a superstate. The CAP is just a way of prolonging a slow death.
    Here here!

    There could never be effective political integration, and the limitations imposed on EU economic freedom are, and have the potential to cause, sever economic problems (look, for example, at Italy and the Euro...). As a basic trading bloc, the EU has potential - but as nothing more. That said, it seems to me quite reasonable for the EU to pool together and collaborately develop defence capabilities to ensure credible military standing vis-a-vis the US.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    This thread is resulting in all of us Brits getting rid of our frustrations and old hatred against the French!

    The feeling is obviously mutual.

    Is there any possibility that the re-negotiating of the CAP would cause the demise of the EU since so many of the participants have a societal composition based around farming?
    You have to move with the times. Britain learnt this through the 80s and 90s and dragged ourselves up out of relative poverty to be one of the leading nations now. France and the other agriculture based countries are continuing to prop up their industries using our money.
    The irony is that every time our farming industry took another shoeing, it meant less CAP for us, and more for them.
    No wonder they refused to lift meat bans even when allother countries had and all scientists said our meat was safest in the world.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h..._pays_what.stm
    THis part shops who recieves net, and who gives net - but note that it isn't adjusted for population size. Hence sweden and netherlands although both giving 1 and 2bn euros respectively actually pay more per head than germany (7.7 bn on the graph).

    THis page shows just contributions (not what anyone gets out of it), showing the size of our rebate, and effect on other countries payments.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h.../uk_rebate.stm

    Basically france is the one trying to screw us, so that they can get a bit more cash out of us.
    Why is Ireland getting so much money? It's one of the richest countries in Europe. :confused:
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Why is Ireland getting so much money? It's one of the richest countries in Europe. :confused:
    I think it used to be one of the poorest, which is why she got the most. But noone has got round to changing that yet... possibly because it would lead to a general rethinking of where the money goes, so the French don't want to. And Ireland are keeping understandably quiet.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Why is Ireland getting so much money? It's one of the richest countries in Europe. :confused:
    I was having a similar thought...looking at the figures for Spain, Portugal and Greece - they have possibly the largest tourism industry out of any of these countrys - representing in the trillions of us dollars (according to figures i saw - cannot back up i'm afraid :-S), does external revenue not count as far as your economy is assesed?
    Also...anyone who has been to the majority of these countries, will see all these beautiful eu-built roads with no one using them. surely we could do with some new roads too? reading some statistics recently the number of car users in britain is almost three times the size as it was in the 1960's, but theres only 5% more roads (sorry - probably not right forum, but still!)
 
 
 
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