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    my suggestion was specific to the case - my point still carries - he would not be able to evade being convicted for possesion so will plead guilty for that, but innocent of dealing - theres in no need for your equation crap since there are pre-suggested guidelines for the punishment of such cases (yes, i know these are used for calculating the inital recommendation, no i dont care).
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    (Original post by President_Ben)
    No, I'm suggesting it shows he knows he has done wrong and was willing to accept the punishment that would be handed out and would, from the sentence, be willing to reform.
    I'm not suprised, they burst into his house undercover to find a huge stash of heroin. Any half decent barrister would advise their Defendant to plead guilty.
    In this case a plead of not-guilty was out of the question, he just wanted a smaller sentence, and he sure as hell got it.

    I think drug dealing is a relatively minor offense given that the far more dangerous than almost every illegal drug, alcohol, is legal.
    Okay then, that is your opinion. The law approaches drug dealing in a slightly different light, and a judge should interpret the law as closely as possible.

    But I think the message being sent out is that "possession of very small quantities that more or less reach levels of personal consumption, for young people, who have no record, who show willingness to change, who know they done wrong - we will give a second chance".
    Where is the "wilingness to change"?

    A year on his head plus extra if he is caught again sounds like punishment to me!
    His head should be chopped off he's caught again, which is inevitable, given the pathetic success rate of community service in 'rehabilitating' thugs.

    I agree. But the reality is, there are only something like 300 empty prison spaces in the country. Something like 1200 people are out there on electronic tagging etc.

    There isn't enough prison space. The judge is forced to pick between small time drug 'dealers'/users and people committing really serious crimes...

    The problem is the government policy on strangely not building more prisons (of course, this is because it is very hard to find a place for them - no one wants to live anywhere near a prison if possible!). Not the legal system.
    It is both. It is the Governments responsibility to provide prison space, and it is the Courts' responsibility to punish criminals in line with our legal statutes.
    You know the legal system is a mess when judges are forced to compare drug dealers to murderers and rapists.

    Grr, and you replied too fast, there was mistakes all over my last post :p:
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    if there was such a major issue on prison accomodation, why not kick some shoplifter out of his cell and lock this guy up instead? I know which one I would prefer to have on the streets if we have to put up with either of them....
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    if there was such a major issue on prison accomodation, why not kick some shoplifter out of his cell and lock this guy up instead? I know which one I would prefer to have on the streets if we have to put up with either of them....
    Drug use and possession does not mean hardened criminal. All he is doing is harming himself.

    If he becomes an addict who turns to other crimes to fund the habit - different matter. But he's innocent of those crimes until he does them, gets caught and the legal system gets going.

    Not sure I'd go with this 'turfing' system either. An actual prison seems to be a better idea.

    On the drug offender - I can only imagine the drug user is submitting to therapy or he wouldn't get the release. I'm making an assumption but that I think is extremely reasonable.

    Even when the legal system isn't working too well, you tend to find it will at least manage to do this.

    Rehab is more successful than not. That might not be good enough to you but it sure is better than exposing someone who is young with a lot to potentially achieve to prison - where his future is immediately crushed and all he'll come out knowing about is crime...

    And 83 doses is a tiny amount.
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    (Original post by President_Ben)
    Drug use and possession does not mean hardened criminal. All he is doing is harming himself.
    he was convicted of dealing, therefore he is also harming others.
    If he becomes an addict who turns to other crimes to fund the habit - different matter. But he's innocent of those crimes until he does them, gets caught and the legal system gets going.
    You believe he that if you dont get caught for a crime you are innocent?

    Not sure I'd go with this 'turfing' system either. An actual prison seems to be a better idea.
    If you read my comment again, you will see that it stated that if a prison position could not be found - obviously given the opportunity i would lock up everyone who deserved to be.

    On the drug offender - I can only imagine the drug user is submitting to therapy or he wouldn't get the release. I'm making an assumption but that I think is extremely reasonable.
    Treatment for there highly addictive drugs is notoriously unaffective, therefore submitting to treatment isn't a guarantee of anything - also, he was dealing, not using.
    Even when the legal system isn't working too well, you tend to find it will at least manage to do this.
    But it has not in this case, so how can you claim this?

    Rehab is more successful than not. That might not be good enough to you but it sure is better than exposing someone who is young with a lot to potentially achieve to prison - where his future is immediately crushed and all he'll come out knowing about is crime...
    dealing has a 25 year sentence - if he served this, he would certainly not be addicted by the time he emerged.

    And 83 doses is a tiny amount.
    thats rubbish, considering someone who considers themselves to use a lot would state 5 doses a day.
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    1. Caught with enough to count for dealing. He wasn't actually caught in the act of dealing. Note that drugs follow the same bulk buy principles of other goods.

    2. No. Nor did I imply that. The suggestion is that he bound to reoffend. In my view, justice is best served when facilities are available (sufficient prison space for example) and sentences are not given arbitrary maximum lengths - instead - sentences are long enough for rehab to be complete - we should secure in the knowledge that we are not releasing people likely to reoffend, however long it takes.

    3. Some drug rehab treatments are very effective. Methadone treatment sadly isn't - but there are some that are. In fact, actually continuing to give the drug in a medically safe way on the basis of reduction and medical monitoring tends to work very well - but this type of rehab is new and still only in trial. Still, I would advocate he be treated til he's done and clean. Not the way things currently are.

    4. I'm sure, next to 100% sure, that a drug user would be put on some form of rehab. I don't know the exact nature of community service but it'll almost certainly be loaded into that. Either way, I'm not defending the existing system - but the notion he should be locked up for 25 years is equally questionable.

    5. Physical addiction ends after less than a week. Mental addiction ends after treatment and help. Drug abusers are victims to a chemical.

    6. 83 doses is a tiny amount. As someone who has spent a lot of time exposed to drugs of every sort under the sun of every class in a way you can't imagine - I assure you, 83 is nothing. A kilo brick is thousands of doses and is a much more normal size for a dealer to use.
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    is this still a living society?
 
 
 
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