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    i attend a private school, but my parents really don't pay for much, other than fees, food and the holiday we go on once a year. i get £20 pocket money a month, and anything extra money i earn from my saturday job as a waitress.

    whenever i go out for a meal with my friends, go out on the town, buy friends birthday presents, new clothes etc etc, i do so with my own money from my saturday job.

    i don't see why people on EMA who are old enough to have a saturday job can't do the same. ok so i may live in a nice house, and go to a private school but all the *extras* i pay for myself. when i go to university, i probably won't be allowed a saturday job, as i beleive it's frowned upon for medical students, and obviously study is more important.

    i could do with a little money each week to save up for university too, but i'm not eligable. my parents won't be able to totally support me at uni either, and it's a fact i'll just have to cope with. i'm sorry for all the people who really need EMA because their parents don't earn as much, and i'm not suggesting that everyone on EMA are scroungers, because that's unfair.

    however, i really can't see why the majority of you can't have a saturday job - it IS possible. i don't see why the government should fund your social life, your spending habits etc etc. if we're honest, i think we can all see that the majority of you do not save it, or spend it soley on education. yes it's unfair that your parents don't earn enough, but i'm sorry, that's life. i might go to a private school, but there are people there who have way more money than my family, but i live with it.

    i'm sorry, but life is tough, and there is no reason why you can't (for the overwhelming majority of you) get a saturday job. just accept that there will always be people who have more money than you, it's not the role of the government or taxpayer to ensure you have enough disposable income.
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    (Original post by ant87)
    i attend a private school, but my parents really don't pay for much, other than fees, food and the holiday we go on once a year. i get £20 pocket money a month, and anything extra money i earn from my saturday job as a waitress.

    whenever i go out for a meal with my friends, go out on the town, buy friends birthday presents, new clothes etc etc, i do so with my own money from my saturday job.

    i don't see why people on EMA who are old enough to have a saturday job can't do the same. ok so i may live in a nice house, and go to a private school but all the *extras* i pay for myself. when i go to university, i probably won't be allowed a saturday job, as i beleive it's frowned upon for medical students, and obviously study is more important.

    i could do with a little money each week to save up for university too, but i'm not eligable. my parents won't be able to totally support me at uni either, and it's a fact i'll just have to cope with. i'm sorry for all the people who really need EMA because their parents don't earn as much, and i'm not suggesting that everyone on EMA are scroungers, because that's unfair.

    however, i really can't see why the majority of you can't have a saturday job - it IS possible. i don't see why the government should fund your social life, your spending habits etc etc. if we're honest, i think we can all see that the majority of you do not save it, or spend it soley on education. yes it's unfair that your parents don't earn enough, but i'm sorry, that's life. i might go to a private school, but there are people there who have way more money than my family, but i live with it.

    i'm sorry, but life is tough, and there is no reason why you can't (for the overwhelming majority of you) get a saturday job. just accept that there will always be people who have more money than you, it's not the role of the government or taxpayer to ensure you have enough disposable income.
    Yes, but if you didn't go to a private school, which is entirely you choice, your parents could afford to pay for more. You can't have everything.

    I could get a Saturday job, but I don't spend that much money anway, so there's no point. Getting good grades is more important to me than having loads of money at the moment. I get £10 a week pocket money, so even if I didn't get EMA, that would probably be enough.

    There may be many people at your school who have more money than you, but there are also many people who have less money than you. It works both ways, and there has to be a cut-off point somewhere.

    The EMA was the decision of the government, not the people who get it, so I don't think it's fair to say we expect taxpayers to provide for us.
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    even if i went to a state school my parents wouldn't pay for everything. they don't want me to be a spoilt little 'rich kid', so they would STILL make me get a job and pay my way. i don't find my saturday job detracts from my studies. i work for four hours every saturday, and get time off for exams. part of growing up is knowing how much work is enough, and organising your time effectively.

    i realise that if you're entitled to £30 a week you're going to take it, but i don't think anyone should be entitled to that money. it was originally marketed as money 'to spend on whatever you want' and i really have to hold my tongue when i see my friends fritter it on nights out and petrol money.

    they don't need that money, they still had a lot of money before they started 6th form. i'm sorry, although it sounds like you (kellywood_5) spend it more responsably than the people i know, i still don't beleive anyone needs that money. even if you only spend it on a couple of birthday presents for your friends it still isn't right that the government's money is put to this use. i have nothing against you personally, and i don't want to make this personal because that distracts from the real argument and is unpleasant.

    as i general point, i don't beleive that anyone needs that money, and i haven't seen a single convincing argument on this board to convince me otherwise. yes, it makes life more comfortable, but it is possible to survive without it. hell, even the lib dems (the most useless poltical party ever, but that's another debate) agreed the money could be better spent.

    do you people realise that the EMA christmas bonus, or whatever, cost £20million this year? that's money that could have been spent on the NHS or building a new school, funding free school meals and bus passes, but instead it was just flushed down the toilet. what a waste.
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    (Original post by ant87)
    do you people realise that the EMA christmas bonus, or whatever, cos £20million this year? that's money that could have been spent on the NHS or building a new school, funding free school meals and bus passes, but instead it was just flushed down the toilet. what a waste.
    Precisely. Perhaps when state schools are perfect, there is a consistent standard of high-quality teaching throughout schools, along with smaller state-school class sizes, then the government could waste the money on EMA payments. You raised some excellent points.
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    I can't get a job

    I really want one - I don't mind working hard if I'll get experience and extra cash out of it, but I'm only 15, and most places where I live only take people aged 16+! I'm not 16 until a few days before I start college

    Also, it's a bit wierd coz we have to actually sign a form before we start 6th form saying that we won't take much employment as we should be concentrated on studying - but how are we supposed to afford it? It's ridiculous!

    MissSurfer
    PS I did have a paper round for a year and it drove my crazy - so much repetiton I couldn't stand it! In the end I quit because it was draining me of (mental) energy...that's one job I wouldn't ever do again!
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    (Original post by ant87)
    even if i went to a state school my parents wouldn't pay for everything. they don't want me to be a spoilt little 'rich kid', so they would STILL make me get a job and pay my way. i don't find my saturday job detracts from my studies. i work for four hours every saturday, and get time off for exams. part of growing up is knowing how much work is enough, and organising your time effectively.

    i realise that if you're entitled to £30 a week you're going to take it, but i don't think anyone should be entitled to that money. it was originally marketed as money 'to spend on whatever you want' and i really have to hold my tongue when i see my friends fritter it on nights out and petrol money.

    they don't need that money, they still had a lot of money before they started 6th form. i'm sorry, although it sounds like you (kellywood_5) spend it more responsably than the people i know, i still don't beleive anyone needs that money. even if you only spend it on a couple of birthday presents for your friends it still isn't right that the government's money is put to this use. i have nothing against you personally, and i don't want to make this personal because that distracts from the real argument and is unpleasant.

    as i general point, i don't beleive that anyone needs that money, and i haven't seen a single convincing argument on this board to convince me otherwise. yes, it makes life more comfortable, but it is possible to survive without it. hell, even the lib dems (the most useless poltical party ever, but that's another debate) agreed the money could be better spent.

    do you people realise that the EMA christmas bonus, or whatever, cost £20million this year? that's money that could have been spent on the NHS or building a new school, funding free school meals and bus passes, but instead it was just flushed down the toilet. what a waste.
    It's good that your parents think like that. There are so many people in this world that are 'spoilt little rich kids' and believe money can buy them everything because they've always been bought everything they want. In any case, no parent should pay for everything; it's just that EMA pays for stationery, revision guides and school trips that some parents can't afford to pay for.

    That is wrong, but unfortunately, since it was designed to act as an incentive, there's nothing we can do about it as people are free to spend it on whatever they want.

    I don't see how people would have a lot of money before starting 6th form- even if they got a job at the minimum age of 13, that would be 3 years of pretty crap wages that would probably have been spent by then. Just to clarify, I have nothing against you either As far as I'm concerned, we're just having a healthy debate.

    :rofl: Definitely agree with you about the Lib Dems. Stating that they disagree with EMA is likely to make me more in favour of it lol. I wouldn't say no-one needs the money or that it was 'flushed down the toilet', but you're right that there are a lot of other things funding is needed for. Maybe if the government didn't waste so much money on projects like the Millennium Dome, legal aid for failed asylum seekers and rich foreign footballers, the EU etc etc, there'd be enough, but again, different debate
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    It is a completely unfairs system. I only get the minimum loan and no grant assistance because my parent's pre tax income is just over the threshold. They have to give over 50% of that income away in tax and pension credi, leaving the amount that would give you full EMA support.
    Then there are my two friends:
    1. Parent's are super rich so they wont notice the cost of univeristy
    2. Parent's are divorced, father earns around £70,000 a year but mother earns amount required for full support, so she's put down her mother's income, even though she gets full support off her father, so she get's the ful loan, grants and Welsh support.

    How is that a fair system? It just screws over the middle people
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    The system sucks; it should take into account how many kids the parents have.
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    (Original post by kellywood_5)
    Just to clarify, I have nothing against you either As far as I'm concerned, we're just having a healthy debate.
    that's good - IMO there's been too much personalised mud-slinging on this particular topic already! i do love healthy debates .
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    (Original post by ant87)
    that's good - IMO there's been too much personalised mud-slinging on this particular topic already!
    Lol definitely.
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    (Original post by Loz_lauren)
    2. Parent's are divorced, father earns around £70,000 a year but mother earns amount required for full support, so she's put down her mother's income, even though she gets full support off her father, so she get's the ful loan, grants and Welsh support.

    How is that a fair system?
    i think this is one of the most important points. i totally disagree with the whole system and personally i think EMA needs to be abolished, BUT if it is going to exist, this needs to be ironed out. it needs to at least take into account the income of BOTH parents. this is how my £100k p/a friend is entitled to the full amount. it really isn't the state's job to sort out domestic disputes like this. presumably if the situation was so serious (ie. father was witholding ALL his money from his child) she would:

    a) be entitled to another form of government benefit (which she isn't)
    b) she wouldn't be recieving expensive bday gifts from her father.
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    So as a matter of interest, if 3 major changes were made to the EMA system as follows:

    1) The income of both parents would be considered
    2) The number of children would be considered
    3) Payments would be linked to effort and grades as well as attendance

    What would everyone who disagrees with EMA think of it then?
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    (Original post by kellywood_5)
    So as a matter of interest, if 3 major changes were made to the EMA system as follows:

    1) The income of both parents would be considered
    2) The number of children would be considered
    3) Payments would be linked to effort and grades as well as attendance

    What would everyone who disagrees with EMA think of it then?
    tbh, you can see i'm a Tory (and proud! ), so i'm unlikely to go for it completely (small government, help people to help themselves, through opportunities rather than just handouts etc etc.), but at least it would be a start. i still don't beleive anyone really needs it, but with the system in it's current form, it just makes me want to spit.

    i see my friends at private (and state) schools frittering it away and it makes me so angry, because in the end, i don't beleive it helps anyone in the long run. it simply teaches people to rely on the state to rescue them, and bankroll their entire lives. i think it is unhealthy, and encourages an unhealthy attitude in young people. what incentive is their to go out and get a job, if the state gives them £120 pocket money per month?

    for some people, yes, i can see they can't afford school trips and stationary etc etc, but these people are few and far between. most people spend it on nothing to do with their education, and for them it is simply a bribe to stay on at school. if we need to bribe people to stay at school, do we reallyt need those sorts of people at school anyway, should they even be there?
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    (Original post by kellywood_5)
    So as a matter of interest, if 3 major changes were made to the EMA system as follows:

    1) The income of both parents would be considered
    2) The number of children would be considered
    3) Payments would be linked to effort and grades as well as attendance

    What would everyone who disagrees with EMA think of it then?
    I'm sorry, but I would still see it as a waste of tax payers money. Regardless of background, one should not need an incentive to continue their education. However, enforcing those changes would at least make it fairer.
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    You both make some really good points there. Oh by the way Ant87, I'm also a proud Tory :p: I can see some benefits to EMA, but if was a choice between sticking with Labour and getting EMA or switching to the Tories and not getting it, there'd be no contest!
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    (Original post by kellywood_5)
    You both make some really good points there. Oh by the way Ant87, I'm also a proud Tory :p: I can see some benefits to EMA, but if was a choice between sticking with Labour and getting EMA or switching to the Tories and not getting it, there'd be no contest!
    i guess shouldn't make generalisations like that! but at least we can all agree the system needs to be tightened up. i think in it's current form it is unfair, and i really strongly disagree with my friends who are on it at the moment. they have saturday jobs, and could survive perfectly well without it.

    in principle i'm still against it, but at least reform would make it fairer. perhaps then fewer people would be on it (so it would be cheaper, and you'd get rid of the people who don't really need it once you take into account the combined income of both parents) and people would be less resentful of the people who recieved it.
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    I can't get a Saturday job as I have to keep an eye on my nan who is disabled, but I can't get any sort of carer's allowance so EMA really helps. I go to a private school that costs £15 000 a year, but I have two scholarships that pay all of that amount so I didn't "pay" to get there. Even so, there are several people who get EMA, mainly because their grandparents pay for their fees or they are in a single-parent family. People should ignore the stereotypical public school image, because for a lot of people, it's not like that and these people deserve EMA as much as other students.
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    (Original post by ant87)
    i attend a private school, but my parents really don't pay for much, other than fees, food and the holiday we go on once a year. i get £20 pocket money a month, and anything extra money i earn from my saturday job as a waitress.

    whenever i go out for a meal with my friends, go out on the town, buy friends birthday presents, new clothes etc etc, i do so with my own money from my saturday job.

    i don't see why people on EMA who are old enough to have a saturday job can't do the same. ok so i may live in a nice house, and go to a private school but all the *extras* i pay for myself. when i go to university, i probably won't be allowed a saturday job, as i beleive it's frowned upon for medical students, and obviously study is more important.

    i could do with a little money each week to save up for university too, but i'm not eligable. my parents won't be able to totally support me at uni either, and it's a fact i'll just have to cope with. i'm sorry for all the people who really need EMA because their parents don't earn as much, and i'm not suggesting that everyone on EMA are scroungers, because that's unfair.

    however, i really can't see why the majority of you can't have a saturday job - it IS possible. i don't see why the government should fund your social life, your spending habits etc etc. if we're honest, i think we can all see that the majority of you do not save it, or spend it soley on education. yes it's unfair that your parents don't earn enough, but i'm sorry, that's life. i might go to a private school, but there are people there who have way more money than my family, but i live with it.

    i'm sorry, but life is tough, and there is no reason why you can't (for the overwhelming majority of you) get a saturday job. just accept that there will always be people who have more money than you, it's not the role of the government or taxpayer to ensure you have enough disposable income.
    If some of my friends didn't get EMA then they wouldn't be able to afford to even get the bus to school or have the clothes they need to come to school. You need to wear smart office wear and that costs quite a lot and getting a bus to and from school everyday well that also costs money. As does buying your lunch everyday and buying paper to write on and pens to use. Don't forget all those extra trips that cost money..Some of the girls in my drama class have said they can't afford to come on the theatre trips we go on as a class because their parents don't give them any money and what they get from EMA and working a few hours on a saturday just isn't enough. This is actually why a lot of my friends work most nights after school before coming home to attempt all their work...Anyway I would like to point out that it is quite difficult to find a saturday job. I have tried to get many jobs over the last year but nobody wants to employ me. I probably could go get a job in Matalan but I am not prepared to go to work frequently after school as well as the entire weekend because I would rather not have money but get good grades. I know that money isn't everything in life but atleast EMA means that people will stay in education rather than getting a job because otherwise they would have nothing. The bonuses are pretty stupid and the system needs more regulation and stuff but there are a lot of people who rely on the money to be able to stay in school. I don't mind not getting it because I don't need it but for others not getting it would be awful as their standard of living would be greatly reduced!!
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    i agree with sparklyteacosie. the bonuses are a bit random, and EMA does have problems but people need to remember that it has only been going a couple of years in this format, and it is bound to change given time. you can't expect the government to get it right first time, as that's not how it works. Personally, my EMA bonus will be contributing to work experience that I am doing in Paris, which is really useful as I'm applying to do languages at uni and it will generally improve my French.
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    (Original post by sparklyteacosie)
    The bonuses are pretty stupid and the system needs more regulation and stuff
    That's esentially the main problem. I think the bonuses should be abolished because, while they are obviously nice, you can't say anyone actually needs them, whereas your post clearly proves that some people couldn't get by without the weekly payments. As for regulation, my post above said that 3 major reforms should be counting the income of both parents if they're divorced rather than just the one you live with, taking into account the number of children they have and basing payments on effort as well as just attendance. If all that was put into place, I think the system would be much better.
 
 
 
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