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Teenage pregnancies and the benefits system watch

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    What qualifies you to have a baby? Maybe you could ask your mother? £45 a week is an awful lot of money!!!
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    (Original post by soulsussed)
    I think most teenager do finish their education but not to degree level.
    Somehow I doubt that teenage moms go to school until they're 18. I know in the US more than half drop out.

    I'm glad to hear that your neighbourhood is so upstanding and righteous. Education is not just about attending school it's about having a supportive and caring family life which you seem to have benefited from.
    Have you ever heard of something called "personal responsibility"? Everyone has problems; that doesn't excuse them for making stupid decisions.

    No, because most are running away in the opposite direction as quickly as they can. It's usually just about getting notches on the bedpost.
    So a man should have no rights over a woman's body when she's pregnant (she can have an abortion without his permission), but he should be responsible for impregnating her?

    (Original post by soulsussed)
    No if a child of 12 years became pregnant social services would investigate.
    Would it be abuse if the father was also under 16?

    (Original post by soulsussed)
    What qualifies you to have a baby?
    Having a brain. It seems that most teenage moms don't have one.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Somehow I doubt that teenage moms go to school until they're 18. I know in the US more than half drop out.



    Have you ever heard of something called "personal responsibility"? Everyone has problems; that doesn't excuse them for making stupid decisions.



    So a man should have no rights over a woman's body when she's pregnant (she can have an abortion without his permission), but he should be responsible for impregnating her?



    Would it be abuse if the father was also under 16?


    Conpulsory education finishes at 16 in britain. You are actually saying that some one should have rights over anothers body I thought slavery had been abolished. Some men do not see it as their responsibilty, some don't and it is debatable as to how many of these pregnacies are planned - Fathers are very important to children.
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    People do have responsibilty but they also have choice (limited or otherwise) and we do not always make the right one at every given moment - do they?
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    (Original post by soulsussed)
    Conpulsory education finishes at 16 in britain.
    So what? If they want government benefits, they better make themselves employable. If they are willing to give those benefits up, then they can stop going at 16.

    You are actually saying that some one should have rights over anothers body I thought slavery had been abolished. Some men do not see it as their responsibilty, some don't and it is debatable as to how many of these pregnacies are planned - Fathers are very important to children.
    With rights come responsibilities. If a woman wishes to have exclusive rights over her body, she better be willing to have total responsibility over what happens to that body (as long as it's legal).

    (Original post by soulsussed)
    People do have responsibilty but they also have choice (limited or otherwise) and we do not always make the right one at every given moment - do they?
    Mistakes must have costs; otherwise, there would be no reason not to make them.
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    I feel that you see life as very black and white. Mistakes do have costs but not always negative and a mother will try to do her best possible = thats human nature. I don't think you have considered the child and that education is not everything or are you that narrowminded/
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    (Original post by soulsussed)
    I feel that you see life as very black and white. Mistakes do have costs but not always negative
    You mean something can have positive costs?

    and a mother will try to do her best possible = thats human nature. I don't think you have considered the child and that education is not everything or are you that narrowminded/
    Most don't try. They get pregnant, and then stay on welfare (whatever it's called in Britain) for the rest of their life.

    And education is everything. The unemployment rate for people with a Masters degree or higher is about 1% for example. Anyone who finishes uni will not remain unemployed for more than a few months. If someone has a child and then doesn't get a good education, they're willingly choosing a life of poverty. And then people like you will blame society for her problems.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    You mean something can have positive costs?



    Most don't try. They get pregnant, and then stay on welfare (whatever it's called in Britain) for the rest of their life.

    And education is everything. The unemployment rate for people with a Masters degree or higher is about 1% for example. Anyone who finishes uni will not remain unemployed for more than a few months. If someone has a child and then doesn't get a good education, they're willingly choosing a life of poverty. And then people like you will blame society for her problems.
    Low self esteem is obviously not a problem you empathise with but poverty is not always negative. Being able to have a positive contribution to society I would have thought would be everyones priority. Positive costs are when you benefit from a choice whether short or long term. The fear of poverty is a problem is your fear is obsessive. Self esteem if related to education could be converted to the fear of educational failure.
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    (Original post by soulsussed)
    Low self esteem is obviously not a problem you empathise with but poverty is not always negative. Being able to have a positive contribution to society I would have thought would be everyones priority. Positive costs are when you benefit from a choice whether short or long term. The fear of poverty is a problem is your fear is obsessive. Self esteem if related to education could be converted to the fear of educational failure.
    If you don't think poverty is a problem, then why should the government do anything to lift people out of it? Surely, a person's self-esteem suffers if they depend on someone else for their livelihood?
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    Look yes these people are talking money and it isn't right when the NHS is failing but there are always going to be young pregancies. Also what if you use the pill theres still a 1% chance of falling pregnent. Besides just because they got pregnemt doesn't make them stupid. Anyone girl whos able to can get pregnent.
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    (Original post by lirael)
    Look yes these people are talking money and it isn't right when the NHS is failing but there are always going to be young pregancies. Also what if you use the pill theres still a 1% chance of falling pregnent. Besides just because they got pregnemt doesn't make them stupid. Anyone girl whos able to can get pregnent.
    There's a 0.5% chance of the pill not working, not of getting pregnant, unless you think someone has a 100% chance of getting pregnant while having unprotected sex.
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    people say its wrong to have kids, then we're giving them benefits and help...hmm :P
    in the economical and scientific sense, we probably shouldnt
    but since we're all meant to be human and caring we probably should..
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    (Original post by sarforaz)
    people say its wrong to have kids, then we're giving them benefits and help...hmm :P
    in the economical and scientific sense, we probably shouldnt
    but since we're all meant to be human and caring we probably should..
    Even if giving these benefits is the main reason for people committing this mistake?
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    (Original post by sarforaz)
    people say its wrong to have kids, then we're giving them benefits and help...hmm :P
    in the economical and scientific sense, we probably shouldnt
    but since we're all meant to be human and caring we probably should..
    Who says we are ALL meant to be caring? It is not the government's job to be caring towards others on my behalf.
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    Thanks for the neg rep, whoever it was!
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    (Original post by soulsussed)
    Discrimation seems to be the common tone in this thread. The 'haves' and the 'haves nots'. Put yourself in the position of someone desperate to escape deprivation and what do you have young people doing anything to achieve it - by finding love and affection from the first person of the opposite sex you meet alias usually ending in pregnancy. This is a problem for all and not just the young people who are faced with this dilemma. Chav is a new term recently placed in the english dictionary what does that tell you about the british society today!!
    Yes, im discriminating between those individuals who are responsible enough to bring up a child in a stable two parent home, who work to provide as much as they can for their child to give them the best opportunity in life and those who have no personal responsibility, who blame the state and society for their mistakes and who take my hard earned money to pay for them. The latter are a problem for all, lets reduce their numbers.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    I don't see why I should pay for taxes for some Prime Minister who thought some country had these weapons of mass destruction. We all pay for other people's stupidity some forms or another. How about binge drinkers who consume NHS resources on a Saturday night? Don't forget the police and other emergency services too.
    There is a stark contrast between spending on drink related accidents and the destruction of family and community life as we know it.
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    Do you think that the problem of teenage pregnancies in this country would be as high if teenage mothers could not afford to live and bring up their children on state benefits?

    If so, do you think that a long-term reduction in the rate would justify some mothers' in the short term being forced to give up their babies?
    lets face it, living on state benefits should be called 'existing'
    because believe someone who WAS brought up on state, its not LIVING!
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    So the question seems to be what is the most effective way to reduce teenage pregnancy?

    The suggestion from the New Right camp seems to be that we should cut benefits to teenage parents and that doing so would significantly decrease the incidence of teenage pregnancy. But this seems largely unsupported by empirical evidence. I suggest this is because it is simply untrue - the idea that the apparently "brainless" teenagers who become pregnant calculate the benefits they'd be eligible to receive before doing so, or in any way take this into account, is extremely odd and highly unlikely.

    Likewise, support for teenage parents is not to promote teenage parenting as a valid way of life but to ensure that the children of teenage parents are not failed by the state - however much you condemn a pregnant teenager, there is an innocent child in her womb - your anger at the girl does not permit you to deprive that child of food and shelter if it requires it.

    So what then is the most effective way to reduce teenage pregnancy? It is very clearly not to stop supporting pregnant teenagers - this is, as I believe I have demonstrated, simply condeming a child and a consideration of the pregnant teenager only after and not before she finds herself impregnated.

    To quote the Planned Parenthood Federation of America:

    The Netherlands, where sexuality education begins in preschool and is integrated into all levels and subjects of schooling, boasts the lowest teen birth rate in the world — 6.9 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — a rate almost eight times lower than that of the U. S. Likewise, the Dutch teenage abortion rate is more than three times lower than that of the U.S., and its overall AIDS case rate is more than eight times lower.


    In Germany, where sexuality education is comprehensive and targeted to meet the reading and developmental needs of the students, the teenage birth rate is more than four times lower than that of the U.S., and its overall AIDS rate is 11.5 times lower.


    France has a nationally mandated sexuality education program that begins when students are 13. Parents are prohibited from withdrawing their teenagers from the program. France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S., its teenage abortion rate is more than two times lower, and its overall AIDS rate is more than three times lower (Berne & Huberman, 1999).


    According to a study in 1999, approximately 97 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — one million American teenagers — become pregnant each year. The majority of these pregnancies — 78 percent — are unintended.

    To quote a rather good article by one of my favourite journalists George Monbiot:

    The United States, the UN Population Fund’s figures show, is the only rich nation stuck in the middle of the Third World block, with 53 births per 1000 teenagers – a worse record than India, the Philippines and Rwanda.8 The United Kingdom comes next at 20. The nations the conservatives would place at the top of the list are clumped at the bottom. Germany and Norway produce 11 babies per 1000 teenagers, Finland eight, Sweden and Denmark seven and the Netherlands five.

    Unicef’s explanation is pretty unequivocal. Sweden, for example, radically changed its sex education policies in 1975. “Recommendations of abstinence and sex-only-within-marriage were dropped, contraceptive education was made explicit, and a nationwide network of youth clinics was established specifically to provide confidential contraceptive advice and free contraceptives to young people. ... Over the next two decades, Sweden saw its teenage birth rate fall by 80 per cent.” Sexually transmitted diseases, by contrast to the rising rates in the UK and the US, declined there by 40% in the 1990s.

    “Studies of the Dutch experience,” Unicef continues, “have concluded that the underlying reason for success has been the combination of a relatively inclusive society with more open attitudes towards sex and sex education, including contraception.” Requests for contraceptives there “are not associated with shame or embarrassment” and “the media is willing to carry explicit messages” about them which are “designed for young people”. This teeming cesspool has among the lowest abortion and teenage birth rates on earth.


    Do the New Right of this board believe we should cut benefits to teenage parents even though it is the countries where the benefits are greatest that have the lowest incidences of teenage pregnancy? And do they believe we should prevent new born children receiving the essentials of life as a punishment (since it's no deterrent) to their parents?

    I expect, since I know them to be rational and intelligent people, that they do not.
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    Why exactly are you equating sexual education with government benefits?

    And one doesn't have to be a member of the New Right to support individualism and self-responsibility. Any self-respecting liberal should take the same approach.
 
 
 
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