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Martina
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#1
The UCAS website says:

"Once we have checked that your application form is complete, we will copy it and send it to each of
the universities and colleges that you have chosen. Each university and college will only have the
details of the course or courses that you have applied for at that university or college. They will
not know your other choices until much later in the application process. Universities and colleges
must not ask you for details about your other choices. "

(about application for 2003 entry)

When exactly is "much later in the application process"?

(someone's worried that their Cambridge application might lead to their being rejected by their
other unis).

Thanks.

M.
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Alex Warren
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Martina wrote:

[q1]> The UCAS website says:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "Once we have checked that your application form is complete, we will copy it and send it to each[/q1]
[q1]> of the universities and colleges that you have chosen. Each university and college will only have[/q1]
[q1]> the details of the course or courses that you have applied for at that university or college. They[/q1]
[q1]> will not know your other choices until much later in the application process. Universities and[/q1]
[q1]> colleges must not ask you for details about your other choices. "[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> (about application for 2003 entry)[/q1]

Is that a new thing? Wasn't the case for 2000 entry as I recall.

[q1]> (someone's worried that their Cambridge application might lead to their being rejected by their[/q1]
[q1]> other unis).[/q1]

Why on earth would they reject you for applying to Cambridge?

Alex
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Martina
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Alex,

[q2]> > "Once we have checked that your application form is complete, we will[/q2]
copy
[q2]> > it and send it to each of the universities and colleges that you have chosen. Each university[/q2]
[q2]> > and college will only have the details of the[/q2]
course
[q2]> > or courses that you have applied for at that university or college. They will not know your[/q2]
[q2]> > other choices until much later in the application process. Universities and colleges must not[/q2]
[q2]> > ask you for details about[/q2]
your
[q2]> > other choices. "[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > (about application for 2003 entry)[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Is that a new thing? Wasn't the case for 2000 entry as I recall.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

yes, afaik.

[q1]> Why on earth would they reject you for applying to Cambridge?[/q1]

(I'm asking the question on behalf of someone else). Sometimes universities reject you if they know
that you have an offer from Camb. (why waste an offer on someone who's probably going to decline it
anyway?) Someone said that at their interview at another uni, the interviewer behaved in a sort of
well-you-have-applied-to-Cambridge-so-why-are-you-applying-to-such-a-horribl e-place-as-this kind of
way, and the person was rejected by the uni.

M.
0
Tom Salls
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[email protected] says...
[q1]> Sometimes universities reject you if they know that you have an offer from Camb. (why waste an[/q1]
[q1]> offer on someone who's probably going to decline it anyway?) Someone said that at their interview[/q1]
[q1]> at another uni, the interviewer behaved in a sort of[/q1]
[q1]> well-you-have-applied-to-Cambridge-so-why-are-you-applying-to-such-a-horribl e-place-as-this kind[/q1]
[q1]> of way, and the person was rejected by the uni.[/q1]

And other universities reject Cambridge applicants because they don't want to become known for being
full of 'Cambridge rejects'. Others want to think that their university was at the top of your
wish-list, and you wouldn't actually have preferred to go elsewhere. For some reason this brings to
mind the image of a child stamping its foot.

I suspect it depends on how over-subscribed the course is. Medicine, for example, has ~55K people
applying for ~5.5K places. There, almost any trivial reason would be enough to get you disqualified
from the running. If you were going to read maths, on the other hand...

Tom
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Alex Warren
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Martina wrote:

[q2]> > Why on earth would they reject you for applying to Cambridge?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> (I'm asking the question on behalf of someone else). Sometimes universities reject you if they[/q1]
[q1]> know that you have an offer from Camb.[/q1]

Yes... **if they know that you have an offer from Camb.**. No way would they reject you just for
applying, unless...

[q1]> (why waste an offer on someone who's probably going to decline it anyway?) Someone said that at[/q1]
[q1]> their interview at another uni, the interviewer behaved in a sort of[/q1]
[q1]> well-you-have-applied-to-Cambridge-so-why-are-you-applying-to-such-a-horribl e-place-as-this kind[/q1]
[q1]> of way, and the person was rejected by the uni.[/q1]

...you couldn't answer a question like that in an interview.

Alex
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Jhp
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#6
[q1]> And other universities reject Cambridge applicants because they don't want to become known for[/q1]
[q1]> being full of 'Cambridge rejects'. Others want to think that their university was at the top of[/q1]
[q1]> your wish-list, and you wouldn't actually have preferred to go elsewhere. For some reason this[/q1]
[q1]> brings to mind the image of a child stamping its foot.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

[q1]> Tom[/q1]

What's illogical about that? I don't want to have a bunch of precious 'Cambridge rejects' taking the
attitude that my university is second rate. Bristol get it a lot and it's a pita. Neither of our
institutions is second rate. We are, however, not as good as Cambridge. Somehow I think I can live
with that, but /some/ students can not. Far better to have students who understand the place in the
pecking order whether or not they applied to Cambridge before. First year u/gs in particular can be
very precious about such status markers. John
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Martina
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#7
Alex,

[q3]> > > Why on earth would they reject you for applying to Cambridge?[/q3]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > (I'm asking the question on behalf of someone else). Sometimes[/q2]
universities
[q2]> > reject you if they know that you have an offer from Camb.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Yes... **if they know that you have an offer from Camb.**. No way would[/q1]
they
[q1]> reject you just for applying, unless...[/q1]

Oxbridge interviews are held in early December, whereas most unis have interviews later. The
Oxbridge offers will have come through by the time of the other interviews. Even if you have an
offer from Oxbridge, it's not very pleasant to be rejected by your other choices, since they could
be your insurance, or you might even decide to decline your Oxbridge offer and go elsewhere.

M.
0
K. Edgcombe
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#8
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Salls <[email protected]> wrote:
[q2]>> > And other universities reject Cambridge applicants because they don't want to become known for[/q2]
[q2]>> > being full of 'Cambridge rejects'. Others want to think that their university was at the top of[/q2]
[q2]>> > your wish-list, and you wouldn't actually have preferred to go elsewhere. For some reason this[/q2]
[q2]>> > brings to mind the image of a child stamping its foot.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I find it very "Waah! Waah! You put Cambridge down on your application form and only came here[/q1]
[q1]>because Cambridge rejected you! You hurt our feeeeelings!".[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Who gives a rat's arse? It's not as if any other university *****es that, say, you also applied to[/q1]
[q1]>Keele. What it does represent, IMNSHO, is sheer insecurity on the part of the university rather[/q1]
[q1]>than anything about the students.[/q1]

This story has been around for many years. I don't know of any real evidence for it, and find it
hard to imagine any University deliberately turning down good applicants out of pique.

I do think that Univs (when they had the relevant information, which they no longer do) may have
thought it sensible to consider whether it was worth making offers to people who clearly were going
to get, and keep, offers from two Univs much higher up the pecking order. Presumably now that they
no longer have this info they just have to waste time and deal in even higher degrees of
uncertainty.

Katy
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Tom Salls
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[email protected] .co.uk says...
[q2]> > And other universities reject Cambridge applicants because they don't want to become known for[/q2]
[q2]> > being full of 'Cambridge rejects'. Others want to think that their university was at the top of[/q2]
[q2]> > your wish-list, and you wouldn't actually have preferred to go elsewhere. For some reason this[/q2]
[q2]> > brings to mind the image of a child stamping its foot.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> What's illogical about that? I don't want to have a bunch of precious 'Cambridge rejects' taking[/q1]
[q1]> the attitude that my university is second rate.[/q1]

I find it very "Waah! Waah! You put Cambridge down on your application form and only came here
because Cambridge rejected you! You hurt our feeeeelings!".

Who gives a rat's arse? It's not as if any other university *****es that, say, you also applied to
Keele. What it does represent, IMNSHO, is sheer insecurity on the part of the university rather than
anything about the students.

Tom
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Martina
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[q1]> Oxbridge interviews are held in early December, whereas most unis have interviews later. The[/q1]
[q1]> Oxbridge offers will have come through by the time[/q1]
of
[q1]> the other interviews. Even if you have an offer from Oxbridge, it's not[/q1]
very
[q1]> pleasant to be rejected by your other choices, since they could be your insurance, or you might[/q1]
[q1]> even decide to decline your Oxbridge offer and go elsewhere.[/q1]

I also lived under the impression that the admissions tutors can find out the decisions of the
other unis.

M.
0
Martina
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#11
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#11
John,

[q1]> What's illogical about that? I don't want to have a bunch of precious 'Cambridge rejects' taking[/q1]
[q1]> the attitude that my university is second rate.[/q1]

And there I was, thinking that applicants are given offers on the basis of their academic
achievements...

[q1]> Bristol get it a lot and it's a pita. Neither of our institutions is[/q1]
second
[q1]> rate. We are, however, not as good as Cambridge. Somehow I think I can[/q1]
live
[q1]> with that, but /some/ students can not. Far better to have students who understand the place in[/q1]
[q1]> the pecking order whether or not they applied to Cambridge before.[/q1]

But how do you know which students rejected from Oxbridge can live with going elsewhere?

M.
0
Martina
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[q1]> I do think that Univs (when they had the relevant information, which they no longer do) may have[/q1]
[q1]> thought it sensible to consider whether it was worth making offers to people who clearly were[/q1]
[q1]> going to get, and keep, offers from two Univs much higher up the pecking order. Presumably now[/q1]
that
[q1]> they no longer have this info they just have to waste time and deal in[/q1]
even
[q1]> higher degrees of uncertainty.[/q1]

Btw, I think the application system must be a headache for unis. Lots of applicants, each with up to
6 choices, one firm, one insurance for most people... It's all very good for the applicants, but it
must be a bit hard for the admissions tutors, especially in the subjects where there are quota.

M.
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Chris Share
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On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:51:01 +0100s, Martina([email protected]) said...
[q1]>Alex,[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>> > > Why on earth would they reject you for applying to Cambridge?[/q2]
[q2]>> >[/q2]
[q2]>> > (I'm asking the question on behalf of someone else). Sometimes[/q2]
[q1]>universities[/q1]
[q2]>> > reject you if they know that you have an offer from Camb.[/q2]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>> Yes... **if they know that you have an offer from Camb.**. No way would[/q2]
[q1]>they[/q1]
[q2]>> reject you just for applying, unless...[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Oxbridge interviews are held in early December, whereas most unis have interviews later. The[/q1]
[q1]>Oxbridge offers will have come through by the time of the other interviews. Even if you have an[/q1]
[q1]>offer from Oxbridge, it's not very pleasant to be rejected by your other choices, since they could[/q1]
[q1]>be your insurance, or you might even decide to decline your Oxbridge offer and go elsewhere.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>M.[/q1]

Probably not... of my 4 interviews, camb was the last. In fact I'd got offers from all the unis I'd
applied to by the time I heard back from cambridge.

And IIRC most of my friends who applied to oxbridge were about the same...

chris
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Dr A. N. Walker
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In article <[email protected]>, Martina <[email protected]> wrote: [offers:]
[q1]>I meant that I thought the ATs knew it in the past (when they still knew your other choices).[/q1]

We still know it today, but [presumably] won't next year. But we only find out after the
slow wheels of bureaucracy have turned a few notches, and that's too late, usually, for our
own decisions.

[q1]> Anyway, the main point was someone's concern that their Oxbridge application[/q1]
[q1]> might disadvantage them elsewhere - see what JHP and Katy had to say.[/q1]

Certainly makes no difference at all here.

--
Andy Walker, School of MathSci., Univ. of Nott'm, UK. [email protected]
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Martina
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[q2]> > Anyway, the main point was someone's concern that their Oxbridge application might[/q2]
[q2]> > disadvantage them elsewhere - see what JHP and Katy had to say.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Certainly makes no difference at all here.[/q1]

Thanks for the information.

M.
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Martina
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[q1]> Probably not... of my 4 interviews, camb was the last. In fact I'd got offers from all the unis[/q1]
[q1]> I'd applied to by the time I heard back from cambridge.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> And IIRC most of my friends who applied to oxbridge were about the same...[/q1]

All the non-Oxbridge interviews I have heard about were after December . My Cambridge offer
was also the last one to come through (I already had the grades though, so no interviews at the
other places).

M.
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Alex Warren
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Martina wrote:

[q2]> > Oxbridge interviews are held in early December, whereas most unis have interviews later. The[/q2]
[q2]> > Oxbridge offers will have come through by the time[/q2]
[q1]> of[/q1]
[q2]> > the other interviews. Even if you have an offer from Oxbridge, it's not[/q2]
[q1]> very[/q1]
[q2]> > pleasant to be rejected by your other choices, since they could be your insurance, or you might[/q2]
[q2]> > even decide to decline your Oxbridge offer and go elsewhere.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I also lived under the impression that the admissions tutors can find out the decisions of the[/q1]
[q1]> other unis.[/q1]

Well, I'm quite sure that is wrong - if these days the unis don't even know which other unis you've
applied to, how can they know what offers you've received?

Why do some people on this newsgroup get so paranoid about university applications?

Alex
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Jhp
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Tom Salls <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> [email protected] .co.uk says...[/q1]
[q3]> > > And other universities reject Cambridge applicants because they don't want to become known for[/q3]
[q3]> > > being full of 'Cambridge rejects'. Others[/q3]
want
[q3]> > > to think that their university was at the top of your wish-list, and[/q3]
you
[q3]> > > wouldn't actually have preferred to go elsewhere. For some reason[/q3]
this
[q3]> > > brings to mind the image of a child stamping its foot.[/q3]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > What's illogical about that? I don't want to have a bunch of precious 'Cambridge rejects' taking[/q2]
[q2]> > the attitude that my university is second[/q2]
rate.
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I find it very "Waah! Waah! You put Cambridge down on your application form and only came here[/q1]
[q1]> because Cambridge rejected you! You hurt our feeeeelings!".[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Who gives a rat's arse? It's not as if any other university *****es that, say, you also applied to[/q1]
[q1]> Keele. What it does represent, IMNSHO, is sheer insecurity on the part of the university rather[/q1]
[q1]> than anything about the students.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Tom[/q1]

Well I don't find it very "Waah! Waah"(whatever that means.) Who gives an artist's rat whether
somebody applied to Cambridge or not? What's more important is whether they come here wanting to or
whether they come though the gates feeling superior because they thought they were Cambridge
material. (but aren't any more so get over it.).

I wish you'd actualy read my posts before flapping at the mouth. I distinctly said that it was not
from any feeling of inferiority, but because of the attitude some of these Cambridge rejects bring.
They should get over it and crawl out of themselves. Is over - is all. John
0
Jhp
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#19
Martina <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> > I do think that Univs (when they had the relevant information, which they no longer do) may have[/q2]
[q2]> > thought it sensible to consider whether it[/q2]
was
[q2]> > worth making offers to people who clearly were going to get, and keep, offers from two Univs[/q2]
[q2]> > much higher up the pecking order. Presumably now[/q2]
[q1]> that[/q1]
[q2]> > they no longer have this info they just have to waste time and deal in[/q2]
[q1]> even[/q1]
[q2]> > higher degrees of uncertainty.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Btw, I think the application system must be a headache for unis. Lots of applicants, each with up[/q1]
[q1]> to 6 choices, one firm, one insurance for most people... It's all very good for the applicants,[/q1]
[q1]> but it must be a bit hard for the admissions tutors, especially in the subjects where there are[/q1]
quota.
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> M.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
It's not a problem. We just choose the rich ones with the firm buns. John
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Jhp
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#20
Martina <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> John,[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> > What's illogical about that? I don't want to have a bunch of precious 'Cambridge rejects' taking[/q2]
[q2]> > the attitude that my university is second[/q2]
rate.
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> And there I was, thinking that applicants are given offers on the basis of their academic[/q1]
[q1]> achievements... [/q1]

In your dreams. It's academic potential we're inetersted in and the ability to learn.

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> But how do you know which students rejected from Oxbridge can live with going elsewhere?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> M.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Same way as we judge everything else non-exam-based. John
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