Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Was Palestine independent between '48 and '67?
    No, West Bank and Gaza were administered by Jordan and Egypt. However, they weren't part of Jordan and Egypt through any UN resolution etc. i thought you meant that Palestine emerged out of Jordan and Egypt after the first Arab Israeli war.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    No, West Bank and Gaza were administered by Jordan and Egypt.
    What do you perceive to be the difference between administered and occupied?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Israeli Occupation - massacres, incursions, curfews, settlements stealing resources etc etc etc.

    Jordanian/Egyptian occupation/presence etc - Fraternal, solidarity, defensive
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Israeli Occupation - massacres, incursions, curfews, settlements stealing resources etc etc etc.

    Jordanian/Egyptian occupation/presence etc - Fraternal, solidarity, defensive
    So if Israel wasn't killing Palestinians or worsening their standard of living, you wouldn't call the situation an occupation, correct?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    In the end, the Palestinian state has no decent political leader who is WILLING to hold good relationships with Israel and who can COMPLETELY DISMANTLE all terrorist groups in palestine. Palestine is a mess. Not becuase of Israel. But becuase of 'islamic extremism'. Terrorist groups such as hamas continiously dent israel more and more, until israel defends itself. Then terrorist groups get the hump and COMPLAIN. Its just madness.

    I personally think that palestine has no future unless the people change their morals and LOOK for peace.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Israeli Occupation - massacres, incursions, curfews, settlements stealing resources etc etc etc.

    Jordanian/Egyptian occupation/presence etc - Fraternal, solidarity, defensive
    So because the Palestinians were bullied and threatened into rejoining their Arab neighbours in hostility against Israel, they were never occupied, because a shared hostility towards Israel knows no borders? This is indeed the concept of the Arab nation and one which undermines charges made against Israel of 'occupation'.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Vienna)
    So because the Palestinians were bullied and threatened into rejoining their Arab neighbours in hostility against Israel, they were never occupied, because a shared hostility towards Israel knows no borders? This is indeed the concept of the Arab nation and one which undermines charges made against Israel of 'occupation'.
    It also undermines the Palestine claim to self-determination. If it's part of a single Arab nation, which has no problem being ruled by other Arabs, then on what grounds does it deserve indepedence?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bismarck)
    It also undermines the Palestine claim to self-determination. If it's part of a single Arab nation, which has no problem being ruled by other Arabs, then on what grounds does it deserve indepedence?
    And the same goes for Zionism and it's deeply partisan cheerleaders outside Israel? If Israel needs to be - why aren't they there?

    The thread starter asked for new views on this topic, all we've had is the usual he said-she said histories from biased coreligionists.

    Backward *******s both.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)

    The thread starter asked for new views on this topic, all we've had is the usual he said-she said histories from biased coreligionists.
    Thank you ArthurOliver.

    Well?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    And the same goes for Zionism and it's deeply partisan cheerleaders outside Israel?
    I dont see the correlation.

    The thread starter asked for new views on this topic, all we've had is the usual he said-she said histories from biased coreligionists.

    Backward *******s both.
    While I dont have any revolutionary thoughts to add, I will refute and/or argue against some of the persistent nonsense that Israel is accused of. There is very little value in bringing new views to the table, if the ones held are flawed.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Here's a revolutionary idea: Why not replace Israel's border control with a UN peacekeeping force, including the "apartheid wall". If the Palestinians really are bloodthirsty barbarians, public opinion would shift the moment it's German boys getting cut to shreds. If the Israelis are evil imperialists, they'll have no excuse to "defend" themselves by sucking up foreign territory, when someone else is doing the defending for them.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JonD)
    Here's a revolutionary idea: Why not replace Israel's border control with a UN peacekeeping force, including the "apartheid wall". If the Palestinians really are bloodthirsty barbarians, public opinion would shift the moment it's German boys getting cut to shreds. If the Israelis are evil imperialists, they'll have no excuse to "defend" themselves by sucking up foreign territory, when someone else is doing the defending for them.
    How does a UN peacekeeping prevent a suicide bomb or a rocket from being launched from Palestinian 'territory'?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    How does the Israeli military do it?

    The pro-terror bunch mainly justify their stance by claiming the Israeli military are equally as brutal. If the terrorism continued, when there're no Israli soldiers in sight, that argument collapses. If the terrorism stops, then it makes a two-state solution easier to reach.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JonD)
    How does the Israeli military do it?
    They assassinate terrorists. They go after positions where terrorists are attacking Israel.

    The pro-terror bunch mainly justify their stance by claiming the Israeli military are equally as brutal. If the terrorism continued, when there're no Israli soldiers in sight, that argument collapses. If the terrorism stops, then it makes a two-state solution easier to reach.
    I agree, but Israel cannot and will not let innocent people die because theyve removed their security measures. This is a fundamental point that youve raised, that Israel would have to allow its citizens to be murdered before the 'international community' recognised it had a duty to defend itself. Its a very easy choice for the Israeli administration and myself to make.

    Incidentally, there should be no questions as to who broke the latest cease fire..

    "A series of Palestinian attacks and attempted attacks over the past 48 hours have left two dead and several injured, as the violence here continues to reach the highest levels yet since the signing in February of a cease-fire agreement between Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Islamic Jihad terrorists opened fire today on an Israeli vehicle in the West Bank, killing Yevgeny Raider, 27-year, and wounding, Andre Zeidan, 16… Hours earlier, the Israeli Defense Forces thwarted a suicide bombing when soldiers caught a young woman Wafa Samir Ibrahim, aged 20, wearing explosives strapped to her underwear at a northern Gaza Strip crossing. Ibrahim had a permit that allowed her into Israeli territory for "humanitarian assistance." Yesterday, an Israeli soldier was killed and two others wounded when two Palestinian gunmen opened fire at an IDF post on the Egypt-Gaza border. Following that incident, a 15-year-old Palestinian boy was arrested at a Gaza checkpoint with five pipe bombs.

    ‘The continued violence comes in spite of a cease-fire agreement announced in Egypt Feb. 8 by Sharon and Abbas. A list of Palestinian attacks and attempts just the past two weeks, obtained by WND, includes: 56 rockets and mortar shells fired at Jewish communities in Gaza, 48 shooting attacks at Israeli civilians and soldiers in the West Bank and Gaza, 26 Molotov cocktails thrown at Israelis, the arrests of five terrorists who planned suicide attacks in Jerusalem, and two attempted infiltrations and attacks against Gaza Jewish settlements. Security sources also report the continued smuggling of heavy weaponry from Egypt into Gaza's Rafah region. Since February, there have been approximately 30 incidents of Palestinian smuggling from Egypt's Sinai region, with weapons transported including approximately 1,000 rifles, dozens of RPG launchers, about 150 handguns, five anti-aircraft shoulder missiles and tens of thousands of bullets. A senior Israeli security source told WND: "The cease-fire is over. Officials are afraid to announce it, but look around, it's obvious."
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JonD)
    Here's a revolutionary idea: Why not replace Israel's border control with a UN peacekeeping force, including the "apartheid wall". If the Palestinians really are bloodthirsty barbarians, public opinion would shift the moment it's German boys getting cut to shreds. If the Israelis are evil imperialists, they'll have no excuse to "defend" themselves by sucking up foreign territory, when someone else is doing the defending for them.
    Last time there was a peacekeeping force on Israel's border, it fled the area without notifying Israel when the Egyptian army invaded Israel. All it did was provide a false state of security.
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Vienna)
    They assassinate terrorists. They go after positions where terrorists are attacking Israel.
    Assassinate
    To murder (a prominent person) by surprise attack, as for political reasons.
    To destroy or injure treacherously: assassinate a rival's character.

    Well they certainly try to assassinate prominent memebers of hamas. But i think it should be noted that whereas other countries idea of assassination is a sniper, or a car bomb etc, Israels is firing rockets at a car containing someone prominent, who has been slowed to a crawl because they are travelling through a busy market place.
    Or drop a tonne bomb in a dense residential area containg one (maybe a couple) of terrorist bigwigs.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Assassinate
    To murder (a prominent person) by surprise attack, as for political reasons.
    To destroy or injure treacherously: assassinate a rival's character.

    Well they certainly try to assassinate prominent memebers of hamas. But i think it should be noted that whereas other countries idea of assassination is a sniper, or a car bomb etc, Israels is firing rockets at a car containing someone prominent, who has been slowed to a crawl because they are travelling through a busy market place.
    Or drop a tonne bomb in a dense residential area containg one (maybe a couple) of terrorist bigwigs.
    Could that have something to do with the fact that these terrorists intentionally stay in crowded, residential areas?
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by JonD)
    Here's a revolutionary idea: Why not replace Israel's border control with a UN peacekeeping force, including the "apartheid wall". If the Palestinians really are bloodthirsty barbarians, public opinion would shift the moment it's German boys getting cut to shreds. If the Israelis are evil imperialists, they'll have no excuse to "defend" themselves by sucking up foreign territory, when someone else is doing the defending for them.
    because it failed in the past (when admittedly the area was much more unstable and anti-israeli than it is now) they refuse to allow it again.
    however, being cynically minded i would say that the israelis need continued violence in order to keep their gains, and continue expanding.
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Could that have something to do with the fact that these terrorists intentionally stay in crowded, residential areas?
    If a man hides amongst a crowd of people - some of whom have little idea of his presence, and others who fear to speak up, you believe it is perfectly acceptable to simply blow the whole crowd to pieces in order to 'get your man'?
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by foolfarian)
    If a man hides amongst a crowd of people - some of whom have little idea of his presence, and others who fear to speak up, you believe it is perfectly acceptable to simply blow the whole crowd to pieces in order to 'get your man'?
    Do you think America wouldn't do the same if it could get bin Laden?
 
 
 
The home of Results and Clearing

2,130

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.