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    (Original post by yawn)
    What? :confused:

    llth commandment of TSR "Thou shalt not take the name of yawn in vain"
    Alexdel doesnt believe Hamas commits terrorism.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Alexdel doesnt believe Hamas commits terrorism.
    You just have to love the way Vienna's brain here works...I mean some sort of scientific research should take place. Different illnesses could be cured...seriously...
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    You just have to love the way Vienna's brain here works...I mean some sort of scientific research should take place. Different illnesses could be cured...seriously...
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/poll...ts&pollid=3535

    You should pay more attention, especially to things like the size of the US economy and your own convictions, for instance.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/poll...ts&pollid=3535

    You should pay more attention, especially to things like the size of the US economy and your own convictions, for instance.
    Considering this is a different topic and regarding someone's view of palestine, there is no connection to my views of Hamas or the isreali government. Therefore my statement stands corrected and as a consequence you should consider how embarrasing making such comments is for you.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Considering this is a different topic and regarding someone's view of palestine, there is no connection to my views of Hamas or the isreali government.
    Hehe, so sometimes Hamas is a terrorist group and sometimes it isnt, depending on the, er, topic. Which topic is that? Hamas and Palestinian terrorism? ROFL.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    Hehe, so sometimes Hamas is a terrorist group and sometimes it isnt, depending on the, er, topic. Which topic is that? Hamas and Palestinian terrorism? ROFL.
    Read the original message again...which is the living condition of palestinians and the way the international bodies have not done anything about it.

    Nothing to do with hamas or palestian terrorism....but if thats how your narrow minded brain views all palestians then who are we to challenge such view. ROFL?
    Talk about educated an educated statement...
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    (Original post by Kayz)
    Listen here...., the Isralei state was created in 1948 the land was to the Arabs long before 1936, now look at what there doing? My Grandad was still around then when the Jewish State was formed..., their still fresh and not old, there all living it high coz theyve got their own state inside an arab land. I dont know alot about the isralei people but i may know why some people dont like the isralei state. israiel is being funded by the U.S providing them arms to use againts their neighbour which are the Arabs in Palestine. You give the Palestinan people Tanks, Guns the lot and i can assure you they wont be using bombs nor throwing stones.

    The land also belonged to Jews who had been moving there and purchasing it since the mid-late 1880s. Additionally - the state of Palestine didnt exist - it was simply part of the Ottoman empire. If it wasnt for the UK and US, and other allies in WW2, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon etc, might still be under turkish control - far from being separate independent states.

    Additionally - many Paestinian groups want the destruction of Israel. The Israeli people are in favour though of a Palestinian state
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    You miss the point. I was implying that Vienna valued Arab lives less than Jewish lives or at least this is what comes across in the way she described civilian dead.
    Interesting then that you would rarely if ever make this same accusation of Palestinians or many if not a VAST majority of the people the middle east; namely that THEY value Arab, and often Muslim lives more than:

    1. Jewish Lives
    2. American lives
    3. Hindu lives
    4. Christian lives
    5. Atheist lives
    6. Caucasian lives
    7. Innuit lives.
    8. African lives.

    Really pretty much the lives of anyone who isnt Muslim or Arab. The example of Congo and Rwanda comes to mind... I doubt that those attrocities made 3 inches of column space in the newspapers across the Arab world.

    Of course I dont claim they are the only people guilty of this, but that:

    a) doesnt mean we should ignore it
    b) doenst mean it is any less reprehensible.

    Personally for me - a live = a life when they are people I dont know.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Should I refer to all war mongering people who eat too much and kill in excess of 100 thousand people every time such an invasion occurs americans?

    I love how selectively biased you people are... 100,000 people was:

    1. The higest estimate given by ONE group
    2. Not an estimate of innocent civilian deaths, but included soldiers, insurgents, and terrorists killed.

    But because the vague number suits your argument you adopt it without question... you cant WAIT to use it as undisputed fact, even though it is but one of many estimates, and in comparison a grossly inflated one.

    Way to be objective.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    They mostly attack illegal settlements.
    And thereby kill innocent children, women and civilians in general.

    Someone takes my land... then sells it to a family who KNOW that it is stolen - its a dad, a wife and 5 children. Is it ok for me to shoot them all because they are on MY property?

    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Define terrorist. And when do "terrorists" stop being so and become a resistance movement from the people?
    Simple. When they stop trying to kill as many innocent civilians as possible.

    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    First of all, it's dead people/slaughtered civilians. I doubt you'd refer to any dead Jews as collateral damage.
    With good reason. Collateral dagmage doesnt apply to people you INTEND to kill. If an Israeli soldier shot a palestinian child - I wouldnt consider that collateral damage. If he shot a tank round at a suicide bomber and killed a child aswell by mistake - then THAT would be collateral damage.

    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    And every time Israel blows someones relative up, they have another suicide bomber.
    Indeed. I would agree that the policies Israel pursues are in many regards counter-productive.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    You're neglecting the fact that Israelis will target indiscriminately to 'take out' a suspected terrorist/freedom fighter.

    I ask, who is the terrorist?
    There is a difference between:

    a) Killing Bob a soldier or militant and mistakenly killing Jill, a civilian and

    b) Killing Bob a soldier or militant and killing Jill a civilian when it was clear she would be killed, but because you saw it as an undesirable but necessary cost and finally,

    c) Killing Bob a soldier or militant and killing Jill a civilian because you desired BOTH their deaths, and indeed the deaths of as many soldiers and innocent civilians as possible.

    a) is clearly less morally repugnant than b).

    However, I think it is also clear that b) is less morally repugnant than c).

    The Israeli forces may often be guilty of a) and b). However they are as a government - NOT as far as I know, guilty of c); ie trying to kill as many innocent civilians as possible.

    However, Hammas etc etc, ARE guilty of c). If they only targeted Israeli troops, I would see their actions as being closer to being on par with Israel's. It is however, not. Nor is its charter.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    I love how selectively biased you people are... 100,000 people was:

    1. The higest estimate given by ONE group
    2. Not an estimate of innocent civilian deaths, but included soldiers, insurgents, and terrorists killed.

    But because the vague number suits your argument you adopt it without question... you cant WAIT to use it as undisputed fact, even though it is but one of many estimates, and in comparison a grossly inflated one.

    Way to be objective.
    You accusing other of not being objective? I mean just listen to yourself, you sound like the spokesman of the neo-cons. Give us a break..
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    You accusing other of not being objective? I mean just listen to yourself, you sound like the spokesman of the neo-cons. Give us a break..
    Anyone who understands statistics is automatically a neocon? :rolleyes: The study you're referring to stated that the range of Iraqi dead was 8k-196k. They then pulled the 100k number out of their behind because they had a political agenda. Most estimates put the amount of Iraqi dead (including soldiers and insurgents) at 20k-25k.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Anyone who understands statistics is automatically a neocon? :rolleyes: The study you're referring to stated that the range of Iraqi dead was 8k-196k. They then pulled the 100k number out of their behind because they had a political agenda. Most estimates put the amount of Iraqi dead (including soldiers and insurgents) at 20k-25k.
    Where do this 'most' estimates come from? The US media? The US government? or the puppet Iraqi government?
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Where do this 'most' estimates come from? The US media? The US government? or the puppet Iraqi government?
    Independent research organizations genius.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Independent research organizations genius.
    So give us the names and links to these research then genius...
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    You accusing other of not being objective? I mean just listen to yourself, you sound like the spokesman of the neo-cons. Give us a break..
    Huh? Im neither a spokesman nor by ANY means a neo con

    All I said was that you chose the highest possible estimate because it suits you... and passed it off as undisputed fact.

    That my friend is dishonest.

    I dont really see how I am being anything but objective. All I did was state fact.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So give us the names and links to these research then genius...
    Do your homework for yourself.

    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Huh? Im neither a spokesman nor by ANY means a neo con

    All I said was that you chose the highest possible estimate because it suits you... and passed it off as undisputed fact.

    That my friend is dishonest.

    I dont really see how I am being anything but objective. All I did was state fact.
    But he didn't agree with your fact; therefore, you're not objective.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    or the puppet Iraqi government?
    The one that was elected by the Iraqi people?

    Yeah .. puppet indeed... puppet of the people of Iraq - as it should be.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Do your homework for yourself.
    Now now you could have used something more original than that, a bit dissapointing...
 
 
 
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