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    (Original post by darth_vader05)
    How much do you think pitersien will drop
    A more pertinent question would be how many catches he will hold on to :p:
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    If he goes and drops another seven chances there, England will be screwed...
    I was more talking about his keeping when standing up, as Giles and possibly someone else will be bowling for much longer spells. And why do you say that? He dropped seven chances against Australia, and we won. Australia are considerably better than Pakistan, so why would they punish us, when Australia didn't?
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    lol- he is a good fielder but he must have had buttered fingers! he didn't drop any in the ODI's, probably was dozing whilst fielding in the tests!
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    I was more talking about his keeping when standing up, as Giles and possibly someone else will be bowling for much longer spells. And why do you say that? He dropped seven chances against Australia, and we won. Australia are considerably better than Pakistan, so why would they punish us, when Australia didn't?
    If cricket was GCSE Maths, the analogy would work. His keeping standing back is ok, standing up to Giles in the Ashes wasn't exactly great, any how...England had in their favour the fact that we were playing at home, Aussies on the decline, conditions suiting our attack etc etc

    Pakistan will most probably have dead wickets with very little assistance for pace bowling, the less said about Giles' bowling the better, and Pakistan - "mean, moody and magnificient, often in the same match" (a sports journalist somewhere said that) and if they are on form, they can beat anyone.

    Lets hope, for Jones' own sake, he doesn't drop too many.
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    Wicket keeping isn't as specialised an art as fast bowling, so that analogy doesn't really work.
    With respect, this is rampant *******s, and indicative of precisely the attitude I mentioned. Selecting Jones because he catches or stops the ball more often than dropping or letting is sail past for four byes is like picking a bowler because he hits the pitch more often than not.

    It isn't simply a matter of the dropped catches, it's the technique, which includes the byes and the inability to stand up to the stumps without fumbling the ball all over the place. Even when he does get the ball in the gloves he's so messy that he'll miss more stumpings than he makes.
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    (Original post by Tonight Matthew)
    a) learning to stop diving across Trescothick
    The problem isn't that he dives across Trescothick, but that he drops the ball when he gets there. I have seen Jack Russell catch the ball two centimetres above the ground in front of first slip.
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    (Original post by The Black Rider)
    With respect, this is rampant *******s, and indicative of precisely the attitude I mentioned. Selecting Jones because he catches or stops the ball more often than dropping or letting is sail past for four byes is like picking a bowler because he hits the pitch more often than not.
    It's not b*llocks. Keeping is less of a specialised ability than bowling. That is a basic fact. It also explains why there's even an argument over whether to go with a batsman-keeper rather than just a keeper, whereas there isn't a question that you pick your finest bowlers, rather than lesser bowlers who can bat a bit.
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    (Original post by The Black Rider)
    The problem isn't that he dives across Trescothick, but that he drops the ball when he gets there. I have seen Jack Russell catch the ball two centimetres above the ground in front of first slip.
    Yes, I've taken some blinders diving across first slip myself.

    But the point is, the ones he does dive across for, would generally be sitters for Trescothick, who has a very safe pair of hands. So he should learn to leave them for him.
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    Best I've done is about 13.9 but now I probably couldn't get near 16 let alone 14.
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    Having had a good, cleansing moan at the ineptitude of Geraint Jones I've decided to start a thread for great 'keepers. My picks, in no particular order, are below.

    http://autographscovers.co.uk/assets...K_RUSSELL1.jpg
    Jack Russell

    Last test class wicket keeper to play long-term for England. Used the same hat, pads and gloves all his career. Wants a cannon salute at his funeral. Barking mad. Genius.


    http://www.hagemeyerelectrical.com.au/images/healey.jpg
    Ian Healy

    Australia's second best all-time 'keeper.


    http://www.ausport.gov.au/tours/spor...ey%20Marsh.jpg
    Rodney Marsh

    Australia's best.
    Coached England.
    Opinion of Geraint Jones, unprintable.
    Nails, hard as.


    http://www.gray-nicolls.co.uk/images.../jeffdujon.jpg
    Jeff Dujon

    Stood up to the stumps for the West Indies pace attack. Head still on shoulders. Is God.


    http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030211/sp3.jpg
    Rashid Latif

    Kicked out of Pakistan team for informing on match-fixers. Kept to Wasim and Waqar.
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    How many are in the squad?

    I'd take Matt Prior as back up keeper, Tremlett and Kirtley as back up fast bowlers. I'd give Panesar a chance as the second spinner. Butcher as back up to top order, Joyce as back up for the middle order and Collingwood as back up for Freddie.
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    Most TKD is a taught as a sport nowadays and any claims of being 'effective self-defence' are false, and it is only really worth doing under TKD rules against another TKD person. check this out as an example NB- This is TKD rules.(takes a bit to load but bear with it)
    If you want a stand up striking art go for Muay Thai (thai boxing) or Western boxing, for more ground based work try some freestyle/greco roman wrestling or for both try ROSS, Vale Tudo or MMA. Have fun
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    I know next to nothing about cricket, and its obviously very complicated, for example from reading this thread it seems they just teach a good batsman how to keep?

    Well, if thats the case, I'll say 2 things, firstly, Gerraint Jones' batting was **** this series, secondly, his wicket keeping was even worse.

    His performance with the ashes can be compared to David James' performance at everything - there may not strictly speaking be anyone "better", but when somebody does THAT badly, you have to look for alternatives.
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    (Original post by imasillynarb)
    I know next to nothing about cricket, and its obviously very complicated, for example from reading this thread it seems they just teach a good batsman how to keep?

    Well, if thats the case, I'll say 2 things, firstly, Gerraint Jones' batting was **** this series, secondly, his wicket keeping was even worse.

    His performance with the ashes can be compared to David James' performance at everything - there may not strictly speaking be anyone "better", but when somebody does THAT badly, you have to look for alternatives.
    1) hey, I finally met someone from Norwich!

    2) Geraint Jones did have a few awful mistakes, but let's not forget that he also made a few pretty impressive catches, everyone messes up sometimes. I agree he let the side down a bit, but everyone deserves a second chance.
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    You're not from norwich are you?

    Either way, you can play good, but consistency is the key in all sports, its better to play fairly good and not have any blaring blunders than it is to do a few amazing things and a few **** things.
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    Thing is, Chris Read was dropped for a reason. His batting was utter goatmeat. Geraint Jones isn't perfect by any means, but for England to operate in the way they do, they need someone who will chip in with runs from time to time. That 85 against the Aussies at Trent Bridge is the sort of contribution that merits his place in the team.
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    Thing is, Chris Read was dropped for a reason. His batting was utter goatmeat.
    Agreed. But we won't know if he has improved until he comes back, and he is doing pretty well for Notts ATM. Basically, hes doing everything he can that would enable him to return to the team, but then we will go around in circles again, saying first class averages don't count for much.

    Case in point: Pakistan have a new wicketkeeper in Kamran Akmal. He is excellent with the gloves, both standing up and back, but his batting was suspect. Given a longer run, he has repaid the faith put into him by the selectors by scoring hundreds in both forms of the game, despite the fact that Moin Khan, the man he replaced, was Pakistan's Jones - excellent with the bat, but ordinary with the gloves. All I'm saying, give Read another chance - and if he then doesn't deliver, then I'm all for going somewhere else, but Read hasn't even played as many matches as Jones...
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    before my knee operation in 2001 14.8 seconds, after my knee operation 2004 13.37 seconds
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    Well I'm by no means against giving Read another go if necessary. I'm just very very suspicious about changing a team that's just won the Ashes. I wouldn't even get rid of Ian Bell!
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    I say read.

    Jones gets 80 runs say, woo, then drops somebody on 10 and they go on to make 100.

    That puts him on -10.

    Read gets 30, but makes the catch, putting him on +30...
 
 
 
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