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    (Original post by pete77)
    Umpiring has been pretty bad to be honest !

    Inzamam's decision was reckless to say the least !
    What about Bell's catch ! I know hard to make out but they say benefit of the doubt goes to the batsman doesnt seem to these days !

    What about Butt getting out for having to play a 7th ball in an over cause he ran on the pitch, Now that doesnt usually happen ! They seem to have been pretty unlucky !
    Overall I think Pakistan have been unlucky... but Inzy was LBW'ed TWICE and not given either... so it's not one-sided, so no bias scandals.

    (Original post by bikerx23)
    Yes - my comment about strauss and tresco moving down was not relating to their ability to hit out, but the fact that it would be more beneficial to have them lower down the order incase they are required to steady the ship following a quick fall of wickets - which you cannot deny their being more able to do so than the middle order.
    As has been said, Tresco can go as quick as Pietersen or Flintoff, and 193 speaks for itself. Strauss is doing badly so far, so he'll either redeem himself or keep up the bad form. But it's a risk you need to take, and a smaller one then bumping up Flintie and Pietersen.

    Our openers should start out attackingly, using Shoiabs pace to guide it to the boundaries. When they're out (I should say 'if' rather then when, but come on...) we have Vaughney and Bell to steady it, especially Bell in his form now. Hopefully we can then accumulate to victory, if not we still have our two biggest hitters to come if there's some sort of run a ball needed with 10 overs left situation.

    We have the best captain in the world, and the order is thoroughly thought out. I think we should leave it as it is.

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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    hehe - if you wanted to chase a big total relatively quickly it would be worth a go in my opinion - after all, england have to win this game in order to win this series - and that is their main objective, but if it doesn't go to plan atleast your not going to lose the game - getting to the middle order and having the guys not playing their normal game would be restrictive and making them more likely to get out to bad shots.
    It's not like we'll need 10 per over, it obviously depends on how quickly we clean them up. If we bowl in the morning like we ended it'll take less then 10 overs.

    That leaves more then enough time for 250+, remember that's not an impossible total in a 50 over ODI.

    Also, those two can be natural later, they certainly were in the first match, too much so! We've proven in the first innings that from Jones-Harmie we're good with the bat.
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    yes - but the order is thought out for test cricket, what may transpire would not be a test situation.
    Despite adoring tresco's game, I dont think it would be up for a big hitting run chase - he does occasionally let off a scorcher of a shot, but its not what you would want in that situation - but it is exactly what you would want waiting in the pavillion.
    As I was saying - I know its not actually going to happen...but I think send the guys out there who will make some big runs - perhaps strauss and g. jones (yea - madness, I know - but strauss is naturally more attacking, and if jones gets it right a quick 50 would be perfect, and if he doesn't, he's not a massive loss...(yes, I know they used to do this in one day and it wasn't quite there...but still! he's in pretty good form right now!)) then leave the rest of the order unchanged.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    hehe - if you wanted to chase a big total relatively quickly it would be worth a go in my opinion - after all, england have to win this game in order to win this series - and that is their main objective, but if it doesn't go to plan atleast your not going to lose the game - getting to the middle order and having the guys not playing their normal game would be restrictive and making them more likely to get out to bad shots.

    Too Risky !

    The top order are aware of runs required and are not bad at attacking they have a balanced play required at the top !

    Look at Afridi's opening record opened for the same reasons u suggest i think the failiure rate is 99% if not more !

    Placing attacking players also encourages their bowlers that the game is now opening up to be a hit and miss scenario ! Scandalous !
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    Also...golden duck in the second innings...will have to wait and see on his bowling figures - if pakistan wins and he takes a good haul, he will be favourite, but cannot be given it.
    Thats up to the adjudicators.

    Changing the order is not a good idea. Freddie was exposed to the new ball because of a rush of blood to KP, so order should stay as is. All depends on how many Pakistan get, and how many overs England bat.

    England have to go for the win - otherwise they are out of the series.
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    No - I know it is up to the adjudicators, but surely the fact he cheated would be a detriment against him too great to be overtuned no matter how well he played.
    Yes - england HAVE to win.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    yes - but the order is thought out for test cricket, what may transpire would not be a test situation.
    Despite adoring tresco's game, I dont think it would be up for a big hitting run chase - he does occasionally let off a scorcher of a shot, but its not what you would want in that situation - but it is exactly what you would want waiting in the pavillion.
    As I was saying - I know its not actually going to happen...but I think send the guys out there who will make some big runs - perhaps strauss and g. jones (yea - madness, I know - but strauss is naturally more attacking, and if jones gets it right a quick 50 would be perfect, and if he doesn't, he's not a massive loss...(yes, I know they used to do this in one day and it wasn't quite there...but still! he's in pretty good form right now!)) then leave the rest of the order unchanged.
    You make it sound like Tresco plays like Hussian. He's quick, maybe not ridicilously so like Afridi, but more then quick enough.

    The only thing I'd consider changing is having Bell number 3 instead of 4, and that's simply because he's less likely to get out, thus making less pressure if he puts in a decent knock again.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    No - I know it is up to the adjudicators, but surely the fact he cheated would be a detriment against him too great to be overtuned no matter how well he played.
    Yes - england HAVE to win.
    I dunno - remains to be seen I suppose. He has apologised and has expressed regret at what he did, and I suppose he's gonna go 150% now that he won't be playing the next test.

    I dont think changing the order is a good idea personally.
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    If Pak hang around for most of the morning session and not score many runs then looks like the over rate is going down as it did in Karachi ! Batting may be occuring in darkness !

    Potentially more controversy to come !

    Fascinating !
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    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    You make it sound like Tresco plays like Hussian. He's quick, maybe not ridicilously so like Afridi, but more then quick enough.

    The only thing I'd consider changing is having Bell number 3 instead of 4, and that's simply because he's less likely to get out, thus making less pressure if he puts in a decent knock again.
    I dunno...tresco's very good, but with his technique (specifically footwork), I would bet against him being able to score consistently at a run a ball, as could be required of him, especially facing test quality bowlers.
    He is a fantastic player, and his best skill is leaving the bad balls, and scoring off the terrible ones - obviously you would rather people were playing their natural games in such a high pressure situation.
    I would agree with moving bell up...although he's a pretty slow batsman aswell...
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    I dunno...tresco's very good, but with his technique (specifically footwork), I would bet against him being able to score consistently at a run a ball, as could be required of him, especially facing test quality bowlers.
    He is a fantastic player, and his best skill is leaving the bad balls, and scoring off the terrible ones - obviously you would rather people were playing their natural games in such a high pressure situation.
    I would agree with moving bell up...although he's a pretty slow batsman aswell...
    Tresco can go a run a ball! I'd say he's our third fastest scorer.... behind the obvious first two. But then he doesn't get out as stupidly.

    Bell is slow, so that change depends on how soon we get them out, if not till lunch then maybe keep him fourth, but openers should stay the same. :p:
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    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    Tresco can go a run a ball! I'd say he's our third fastest scorer.... behind the obvious first two. But then he doesn't get out as stupidly.
    Yep. He has a strike rate of around 88 in ODIs. So he can score quick.
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    hmm...I would say jones was a faster scorer aswell - his game is naturally very aggresive.
    In more of my amazing line up changes...bell in at 7!
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    hmm...I would say jones was a faster scorer aswell - his game is naturally very aggresive.
    In more of my amazing line up changes...bell in at 7!
    He is Not Experienced enough !

    More Hit & Miss !

    Tres is much more Quality Assured !
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    hmm...I would say jones was a faster scorer aswell - his game is naturally very aggresive.
    In more of my amazing line up changes...bell in at 7!
    I wonder if we would have won the Ashes if you were the coach :p:
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    hmm...I would say jones was a faster scorer aswell - his game is naturally very aggresive.
    In more of my amazing line up changes...bell in at 7!
    But we shouldn't open with somebody with his average, and the obvious weakness of being bowled off stump. Shoiab would take full advantage. Besides, as just said... 88 strike rate in ODI's, Tresco probably is faster than Jones.

    He made his 193 off about 300 balls, and that's without particulary trying to go quick. I'd say 66 strike rate for a total like that in a test is damn fast. When trying to be quick you can bump it up to 80's, 90's... run a ball.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    I wonder if we would have won the Ashes if you were the coach :p:
    They would have won if i was coach & probably be 1-0 up now !

    LOL
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    I would not have done this had I been the ashes coach, but then we weren't in this position of chasing a high total in a short period of time.
    Personally Bell does not impress me - granted his performances on this tour have been worthy of a place in the team, but he was gash in the ashes - when we need to keep wickets in hand, he goes first ball to mcgrath.
    I agree tresco can score fast...but, then again, KP can score at a strike rate of over 100 - in the ODI's in SA it was up around 130 consistently - you cant argue with that sort of batting! :d
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    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    Bell is quite young still, and against any other team he'd do better,
    Yay.
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    show off.
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    (Original post by bikerx23)
    I would not have done this had I been the ashes coach, but then we weren't in this position of chasing a high total in a short period of time.
    Personally Bell does not impress me - granted his performances on this tour have been worthy of a place in the team, but he was gash in the ashes - when we need to keep wickets in hand, he goes first ball to mcgrath.
    I agree tresco can score fast...but, then again, KP can score at a strike rate of over 100 - in the ODI's in SA it was up around 130 consistently - you cant argue with that sort of batting! :d
    Bell is relatively new to the side !
    Ashes were one of his first few series !
    Give him Time !

    Less experienced & He has done well !

    Got Good technique and patience essential for Test Cricket !
 
 
 
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