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    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    He's too young, it might sound like it from my last few posts but I don't exactly want toddlers on the pitch...
    Who?

    This is big news!
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    I believe in my last post I did claim this applied equally for pietersen, and, yes - his 150 was very fortunate, but he did make some other very valuable contributions - he only failed to get a reasonable score on a couple of occasions - it is very difficult to criticise someone who did well (not brilliantly, but well is sufficient for me...)
    and, yea - you cant predict beforehand...but I would like to add this has been my opinion from before lords - I believe Thorpe should have been playing, bell admittedly, having played a few tests before and the bangladesh "tests" is sort of on the cusp of acceptability, but if you are going to consider KP then he should have played tests beforehand (also, as a good pair or nurdlers...I would have loved to see KP and thorpey play together, but thats a different matter)
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    How old is too young ?!

    16, 17,18 year olds have had debuts and great careers !


    (Original post by tis_me_lord)
    He's too young, it might sound like it from my last few posts but I don't exactly want toddlers on the pitch...

    As for the whole Pietersen did well, Bell didn't, so ger rid of Bell.

    A - can't predict that beforehand.
    B - Pietersen was lucky to get his 150, dropped a lot, would you be saying this if he'd been out earlier, his series wasn't that great really...
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    I think the masters is at the albert hall next week, you know the seniors tour.

    I hope it's on terrestrial again like last year.
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    look at afridi....didn't he debut at 16?
    wasn't hasan raza ridiculously young aswell?
    You can compare this to rugby too - Wilko was playing for England at 19....
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    Afridi was 16, Hasan Raza was 14 :eek:
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    yea - thats what I thought - read it somewhere in the papers...
    ridiculous, isn't it...
    although I believe Raza was for a ODI, not a test...isn't one of the bangladeshi players the youngest test player ever? (possibly ashrafal? I think he's something like the youngest centurian ever too...)
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    Raza test debuted at 14 vs Zimbabwe in 1996. Youngest Test player, broke the record held by another Pakistani, Mushtaq Mohammad who was 15.

    Ashraful has the record of the youngest Test centurion at 17 years and a few days, broke the record also held by Mushtaq Mohammad was a few weeks short of 18.
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    :congrats: good knowledge....
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    tommorow will be an interesting day, it looks like we will get some good cricket.

    all 3 results are possible, win, lose or draw for both teams.

    pakistan need to add another 50 runs on to the total and take the lead to 250 they can easily do it with rana the banana and the aloo at the crease. the bowlers must fire at all cylinders, they did it in the first test and now there bowling has strengthened with the addition of rana and afridi, i think afridi will be the key for pakistan tommorow, he bowls superb in these situations.

    i cant say much about england, there batting is looking very weak, they lucky got past 400 with the help of the pakistani fielders.
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    (Original post by shaby)
    tommorow will be an interesting day, it looks like we will get some good cricket.

    all 3 results are possible, win, lose or draw for both teams.

    pakistan need to add another 50 runs on to the total and take the lead to 250 they can easily do it with rana the banana and the aloo at the crease. the bowlers must fire at all cylinders, they did it in the first test and now there bowling has strengthened with the addition of rana and afridi, i think afridi will be the key for pakistan tommorow, he bowls superb in these situations.

    i cant say much about england, there batting is looking very weak, they lucky got past 400 with the help of the pakistani fielders.
    Should be a fascinating days play where controversy may dominate even more !

    Depends on how quickly they get to 250 and whether they take risks !

    The Time factor will come into it if they get 50 more in an hr then there is plenty of time for Eng to go for victory and Pak to bowl them out although if the batsman stick around for most of the morning then a draw is likely !

    Eng are under more pressure being 1-0 down they will take risks and this may play into Pak's hands making it 2-0 ! As for their bowling Aktars bowling well and accurate, Rana's getting wickets, Kaneira needs to come to the party with Afridi if they are to win, Kaneira may be key as he was !
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    (Original post by shaby)
    i cant say much about england, there batting is looking very weak, they lucky got past 400 with the help of the pakistani fielders.
    Dunno, they did register two middle order centuries. Tresothick scored 193 in the first test. Flintoff has chipped in with two 40's (even though he should have made more!) and Jones got 55. The only two players who have not made any runs yet is Strauss and Vaughan. Catches win matches, it's not England's fault if the Pakistani fielders drop catches all the time.

    I'm too lazy to get into the Ian Bell discussion and type it out again, but I'll just post a piece I wrote on my cricket blog a few days ago before Bell went onto make 100 in the first innings of this test. Also deals with the selection of Pietersen, etc.

    Alas, the English media returns to questioning whether or not the middle order can drag England past the follow on, let alone close to Pakistan's score, yet this was the same middle order which struck Ashes gold for the first time in longer than most Englishmen care to remember. Is our own mentality our biggest enemy, where has our faith in England's batsmen disappeared to?

    While Flintoff hurls down over after over with all his heart and soul, it's easy to excuse the man if he doesn't score 100's week in and week out, although that hasn't stopped him trying. Pietersen and Vaughan both had their moment in the sun against Australia, both registering 150-plus scores in one innings only. The next best thing was Vaughan's 45 when he was dismissed against what could be best described as part-time dibbly-dobbly from Ricky Ponting. While Pietersen's 50 plus scores against Australia at Lord's were memorable for a debutant, they came twice when the innings had been destroyed by a combination of McGrath and Warne. Not to discredit Pietersen, the man has the kind of talent which I'd donate treasured body parts to have, but he had one important innings in the Ashes series, that of the Oval rescue mission, for which I applaud him, but let's not forget he was dropped three times (sorry Shaun Tait, if you get your hand to it, it's a drop) during that innings, and while that's no fault of his own, had ***** Warne held onto that absolute dolly at first slip, Pietersen's England career could be going down the Michael Clarke lane of development, all promise, no deliverance, work it out on the domestic circuit.

    This leads us to Ian Bell, the man who wasn't even in the Test team until Vaughan made himself unavailable for the first test, the man who everyone thought should be replaced by Collingwood anyway. I am a big fan of Collingwood, but I am of Bell also and I feel Bell is the kind of player, along with Vaughan, who has the potential to act as the rock within the middle order from which Flintoff, Pietersen and to some extent Jones can launch assaults on tiring opposition attacks. Bell has now scored roughly 130 runs in 3 innings and holds the keystone to tomorrow's performance. If Ian Bell, the man who many didn't believe had what it takes to bat at the highest level after a shocking Ashes series, can grind, grit and squeeze runs out of his bat all day tomorrow, England will not only be in with a fighting chance, but will have maybe rediscovered why Ian Bell was the prodigy he was hyped up to be.

    I remember discussing Ian Bell with a friend after the Ashes series, and his comment was that Ian Bell was so talented that he was edging balls that better batsmen would play and miss at. I think there's a lot to be said for that, Trent Bridge hooking madness aside, Bell showed he wasn't afraid to grit and grind it out in the middle. Michael Clarke, another #4 whose young and struggling (and dropped), has tried to hit his way out of poor form, Bell has simply done the smart thing, attempted to occupy the crease and find his ability. So far on the Pakistan tour, Bell has shown the kind of character which Atherton, Hussain and Thorpe showed on past sub-continental tours, you need to bat and bat and bat and bat. He went from not being in the starting XI to buckling down and scoring a gritty 70-odd in a valuble partnership with Trescothick which should have set up an England victory. That I believe shows incredible character, and the kind of character I hope Pietersen and Flintoff show tomorrow, for all their attacking intent, there is a lot to be learnt from a man whose tasted failure and bounced back even more determined.


    EDIT: Why is the word 'S.h.a.n.e.' starred out? I didn't know mister Warne's first name was a swear word!
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    Why is the word 'S.h.a.n.e.' starred out?
    Something to do with a certain member's obsession with a certain $hane...

    --------------

    but let's not forget he was dropped three times (sorry Shaun Tait, if you get your hand to it, it's a drop) during that innings, and while that's no fault of his own, had ***** Warne held onto that absolute dolly at first slip, Pietersen's England career could be going down the Michael Clarke lane of development, all promise, no deliverance, work it out on the domestic circuit.
    You say this, yet then say its not Eng's fault if Pakistan cant hold on to catches.

    It isn't Eng's fault if Aussies cant hold on to catches.

    If Bell had been stumped and Pietersen had been caught, it would have been bye bye England.
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    (Original post by Socrates)
    You say this, yet then say its not Eng's fault if Pakistan cant hold on to catches.

    It isn't Eng's fault if Aussies cant hold on to catches.

    If Bell had been stumped and Pietersen had been caught, it would have been bye bye England.
    It isn't England's fault that Australia failed to hold onto their catches. My point was that on another day Pietersen could have been caught 3 times during his innings and then would never have gone onto score those runs and his career may have come to an abrupt halt had it not been for that. I'm not entirely sure what your point is...
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    the key wicket for pakistan would be trescohik he is currently englands backbone and can win the match for them but if he goes then thats the backbone broken.

    i dnt think flintoff, bell or pieterson can take eng to victory, they are in bad form even thought two of them got centrys they should have been dissmissed even before they got 50, flintoff is also looking out of touch with the bat.
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    Bell also made 70 & 30 in the first test. How many runs do you have to make before the criticism stops I wonder.
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    I didn't know there were many criticisms flying around about him any more...
    my personal criticisms were due to his selection prior to the ashes, but its all over now.
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    I'm not entirely sure what your point is...
    I wasn't quite sure what yours was...hence the need for clarification.
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    well ye pakistans has always had poor fielding and its cost them many games before, the fielding here was shamefull, but pakistan have got another big setback in racist darrel hair who completly hates pakistan.
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    (Original post by shaby)
    but pakistan have got another big setback in racist darrel hair who completly hates pakistan.
    isn't that comment slightly unfair?
 
 
 
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