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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Conscription is evil. The state is bad enough to take away our money but with conscription the state is saying 'we own you'. Why should i die for a state which does not give me freedom? This idea of a community is absurd. There are only individuals. All i will do is not infringe on the freedom of others, no more no less.
    I hate ppl like you, your far to naive. You think that if the Gov didn't 'steal' our money that we'd be int he current position we're in.
    And social solidarity is the 1st human instinct freedom is the 2nd according to Bakunin. Quite right and all
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    in principle i dont see much of a problem with it.

    national service is useful for reinforcing discipline and for learning new skills and obviously army skills too.

    the timing and length of service is often the difficulty. it would certianly shaft a lot of people studying and those who are already working.

    if the period of service was reasonable and you got paid for it, and could choose with some flexibility when to do it, then i think less people would have a problem with it.
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    (Original post by technik)
    in principle i dont see much of a problem with it.

    national service is useful for reinforcing discipline and for learning new skills and obviously army skills too.

    the timing and length of service is often the difficulty. it would certianly shaft a lot of people studying and those who are already working.

    if the period of service was reasonable and you got paid for it, and could choose with some flexibility when to do it, then i think less people would have a problem with it.
    Exactly national service doesnt mean being thrown into the vanguard of the infantry. if your civvery expertise is with computers etc, then you will be in Comms etc. If your a Doc im sure you'll be doing that.
    But i agree the timing would be one to think about, prob somehting like early 30's prehaps? i dont no that why it needs to be discussed.

    But yes you do get paid and 3-4 years out of 70 is nothing, and a price i think you should pay as it gives you a true sense of community and that everyone has atleast contributed to some extent to society.
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    (Original post by MyHappyEnding)
    Exactly national service doesnt mean being thrown into the vanguard of the infantry. if your civvery expertise is with computers etc, then you will be in Comms etc. If your a Doc im sure you'll be doing that.
    But i agree the timing would be one to think about, prob somehting like early 30's prehaps? i dont no that why it needs to be discussed.

    But yes you do get paid and 3-4 years out of 70 is nothing, and a price i think you should pay as it gives you a true sense of community and that everyone has atleast contributed to some extent to society.
    How does doing the National Service contribute to society?
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    How does doing the National Service contribute to society?
    Fire fighters strike?
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    Irianian Embassy siege?

    Northern Ireland?

    Basic strucural problems such as Boscastle.

    Discipline?

    Education?

    Respect for you fellow citizen?

    to name but a few
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    the idea of "national service" isnt totally extinct in the UK even now.

    people in the TA train for 12 (?) weekends a year and have normal jobs and lives outside. while not mandatory or for any set period of time, its has similarities.
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    (Original post by technik)
    the idea of "national service" isnt totally extinct in the UK even now.

    people in the TA train for 12 (?) weekends a year and have normal jobs and lives outside. while not mandatory or for any set period of time, its has similarities.
    Ere yeh lol, if you in the TA you can be called up for full active service at any time. Ofcourse you can buy-your-way-out but there are thousands in Iraq now who are from the TA
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    (Original post by MyHappyEnding)
    Ere yeh lol, if you in the TA you can be called up for full active service at any time. Ofcourse you can buy-your-way-out but there are thousands in Iraq now who are from the TA
    sounds like national service to me. correct me if im wrong in that assessment
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    (Original post by MyHappyEnding)
    I hate ppl like you, your far to naive. You think that if the Gov didn't 'steal' our money that we'd be int he current position we're in.
    And social solidarity is the 1st human instinct freedom is the 2nd according to Bakunin. Quite right and all
    Well i dont hate you or people like you as it is an unproductive feeling. I don't care because your not important (understatement).

    If the government didn't steal our money we'd be in a better more productive situation. Read my arguments on the 'is taxation theft' thread and than come back to me with some reasoning.

    Bakunin was an idiotic anarchist. Why should i believe him? Because you state his beliefs? If you dont give me an argument, whats the point? Hitler believed in killing Jews, that was his view, have i now justified the holocaust? Of course not and nether would i want to. My point is give reasons and not random views.
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    Bismarck said:
    It shouldn't be compulsary either. You think forcing people to give up several years of their lives will make them love their country more? And even if you think so, who are you to take away years from people's lives?
    Never said it should be compulsary, I had even already stated that I disagreed with National Service. Although, as I have already said, spending time in the armed forces should not be considered a waste of 'years'. It can be a very valuable experience for some people. Others just want to make money, do nothing, sit in an office etc.
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    Bismarck said:
    It shouldn't be compulsary either. You think forcing people to give up several years of their lives will make them love their country more? And even if you think so, who are you to take away years from people's lives?
    How is it different from compulsory education then?
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    (Original post by OpressedMass)
    Bismarck said:


    How is it different from compulsory education then?
    Education is not compulsory for over 18s. But I see your point
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    (Original post by TheVlad)
    Education is not compulsory for over 18s. But I see your point
    for over 15's i believe.
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    (Original post by technik)
    for over 15's i believe.
    Does it matter? Arguing that national service is against human rights is absurd, if its beneficial, which I think it would definately be, then it should exist.
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    Beneficial?
    I don't think that it would be beneficial to me and thats all that counts. It is against my human rights to force "good things" on me.
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    (Original post by OpressedMass)
    Does it matter? Arguing that national service is against human rights is absurd, if its beneficial, which I think it would definately be, then it should exist.
    was i arguing that it was against human rights?
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    (Original post by OpressedMass)
    How is it different from compulsory education then?
    Minors have very few rights under the law. The reason is that they're presumed not to know what is in their interest. Do you think 18-year-olds don't know what's in their interest?

    (Original post by OpressedMass)
    Does it matter? Arguing that national service is against human rights is absurd, if its beneficial, which I think it would definately be, then it should exist.
    Are you willing to pay an extra 10% income tax and see your earnings reduced by another 10% for it?
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Bakunin was an idiotic anarchist. Why should i believe him?
    Likewise to you?
    Go move to another country then if you dont feel you like the system. Go live in Monaco, or are you too poor to have ever been?
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    (Original post by MyHappyEnding)
    Likewise to you?
    Go move to another country then if you dont feel you like the system. Go live in Monaco, or are you too poor to have ever been?
    I believe you're the one who should be doing the moving as Britain doesn't have a draft anymore.
 
 
 
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