Socialism Watch

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JonD
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#81
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#81
In the case of Chomsky, I used to read his stuff, take it in and take up the opinions -yet not really think about it or question it- which I think a lot of people do. I think his arguments, while they may have a lot of thought gone into them, are quite simplistic, often showing ignorance of the alternative. For example, if we forsook material wealth, stopped affecting the environment and became egalitarian today, we'd most likely be living in mud huts and dying of the flu tomorrow. If there was no US to act all "imperialist", the west would probably hav fallen under Soviet rule - if not a mushroom cloud. It'd b a 1,000 year dark age of murder and famine before human civilisation could recover.

Though, I really do think I'd easily swing to the left should someone ever find a solution to that big problem of finding a way around work, (i.e. robot slaves - as mentioned above) which may be a possibility by the end of my life. Interestingly, it could create the first truly socialist society - by accident, and eventually commmunist - should we have such an abundance of wealth. Marx may have been right all along, after all.
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Bismarck
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#82
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#82
(Original post by JonD)
Though, I really do think I'd easily swing to the left should someone ever find a solution to that big problem of finding a way around work, (i.e. robot slaves - as mentioned above) which may be a possibility by the end of my life. Interestingly, it could create the first truly socialist society - by accident, and eventually commmunist - should we have such an abundance of wealth. Marx may have been right all along, after all.
Without continuous innovation, our standard of living would never increase.
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Iz the Wiz
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#83
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#83
(Original post by JonD)
In the case of Chomsky, I used to read his stuff, take it in and take up the opinions -yet not really think about it or question it- which I think a lot of people do. I think his arguments, while they may have a lot of thought gone into them, are quite simplistic, often showing ignorance of the alternative. For example, if we forsook material wealth, stopped affecting the environment and became egalitarian today, we'd most likely be living in mud huts and dying of the flu tomorrow. If there was no US to act all "imperialist", what would France and Britain be like under Soviet rule?

Though, I really do think I'd easily swing to the left should someone ever find a solution to that big problem of finding a way around work, (i.e. robot slaves - as mentioned above) which may be a possibility by the end of my life. Interestingly, it could create the first truly socialist society - by accident, and eventually commmunist, should we have such an abundance of wealth - Marx may have been right all along, after all.
Really? I see the desire for a life of leisure as fatal in itself, a trap that should be avoided (like overeating) and responsible for all kinds of problems. I think wanting to work is healthy, and not wanting to work is a defect in human nature. (There is still, of course, such a thing as overwork, working beyond a healthy amount. This is as undesirable as any other distortion.)
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JonD
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#84
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Maybe I should have said "manual work", instead of plain old "work". Sentient machines capable of doing *anything* a human is capable of, would make machines worryingly independent. From my perspective, the current plan of the European left is to let anyone live out their ancient tradition of factory/farm work if they wish (with trade protection and subsidy), letting anyone who wants to abandon their job but not learn a new skill in the growing service economy live off benefits. Of course, this is all paid for with ever-growing taxation, which damages everything in the long run - the reason I don't like it. By 2200, that taxation might not be necassary.
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Socrates
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Douglas)
How many right wing scum can you name??
With the honourable exception of perhaps foolfarian, most people who frequent D&D are whom I would label as "righwing scum". Your goodself included.
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Person
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#86
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#86
It'd b a 1,000 year dark age of murder and famine before human civilisation could recover.
It already is, you just don't live there. This is capitalists' problem. If it doesn't affect me, it's not happening.
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JonD
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#87
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#87
Oh really? Perhaps you'd like to give some examples.
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inequality
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#88
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#88
(Original post by objectivism)
If your father was really fit enough to go to university he would have got their on his own without having to steal from others through taxation.
Are you implying that my father is not really fit enough to go to university? Even though you don't know anything about him, or anything about where he lived and the politics at that time.

Tell me then. If he was brought up in a poor mining family, how would he have got into university without stealing taxpayers money? How would he have paid?

I don't claim to be an expert on politics. In fact the whole object of this thread was not to promote socialism. If you would have read:

(Original post by inequality)
I don't want you all to change your mind about socialism. Just think a bit before you make fun of it.
But it appears to me that a lot of people on here who criticise this don't really have a clue what they are talking about.

Technik, you said socialism kept my grandfather down a mine. It was capitalism that made the workers work in such appauling conditions. The rich mine owners cared very little about their workers. When socialism was first indroduced in post war Britain, the object was to give miners rights, health care, the opportunity to form trade unions.

You are thinking about this from only an economic point of view. There are other aspects to consider. But after churning out *******s like this:

(Original post by technik)
better pensions, better health, better blah blah. paid for by others. rarely the poor old socialists. and if someone dares question it, well lets have a strike.

the NHS is a great one. luckily my family go private. none of that NHS blundering for us im afraid. shame my parents still have to pay their taxes for the NHS they dont use regardless.

losers, who need annihilated.
I'm beginning to doubt whether you have a heart or a brain. Are you some sort of robot. A dalek maybe?
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technik
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#89
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(Original post by inequality)
I'm beginning to doubt whether you have a heart or a brain. Are you some sort of robot. A dalek maybe?
:rofl:
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objectivism
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#90
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#90
Are you implying that my father is not really fit enough to go to university? Even though you don't know anything about him, or anything about where he lived and the politics at that time.

Tell me then. If he was brought up in a poor mining family, how would he have got into university without stealing taxpayers money? How would he have paid?
Read post 18 in this thread.
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Socrates
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#91
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#91
(Original post by objectivism)
Read post 18 in this thread.
You are the only one who think taxation is theft. Thankfully the rest of us are sane.
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objectivism
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#92
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(Original post by zaf1986)
You are the only one who think taxation is theft. Thankfully the rest of us are sane.


As Frederic Bastiat wrote 'people are beginning to realise that the apparatus of government is costly. But what they do not know is that the burden falls inevitably on them'. I do as I think and don't just accept conventions, after all, as Socrates wrote 'the unexamined life is not worth living'.
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Vienna
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#93
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#93
(Original post by zaf1986)
You are the only one who think taxation is theft. Thankfully the rest of us are sane.
Its a form of theft in my book.
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Person
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#94
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#94
Oh really? Perhaps you'd like to give some examples.
The contras. Batista. Pinochet, Ethiopia - India All of the murder and famine in these countries is because of capitalism in its worst form of Imperialism.
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Vienna
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Northumbrian)
The contras. Batista. Pinochet, Ethiopia - India All of the murder and famine in these countries is because of capitalism in its worst form of Imperialism.
How is Ethiopia an example?

And India?
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Bismarck
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Northumbrian)
The contras. Batista. Pinochet, Ethiopia - India All of the murder and famine in these countries is because of capitalism in its worst form of Imperialism.
I hope you realize that the two main political groups in Ethiopia are the Communists and the Marxists. And the fact that India has been socialist until fairly recently.
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JonD
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#97
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Then there's the twice as villainous despotism that replaced Batista, the Sandinista puppets it created, condemned worldwide for its ethnic cleansing and penis-in-mouth atrocities, which the Contras fought ..all examples of Socialism in it's worst form of Imperialism.
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Person
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#98
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#98
Globalised Capitalism. Imperialism held the Indian people back. Capitalism caused famine all over the world. While people scoff excessive McDonalds down their throats in the west and people have no food in Africa, do you think there is a link? If the USA is no using other peoples resources then how come they produce 25% of the worlds pollution?

Italian Imperialism in Ethiopia caused divisions. Of course drought was a natural facotr in the famine there, but the capitalist system meant that help was not forthcoming in a humane manner that one would think it should come.

And pro soviet organisations like the Derg never really helped any workers that much.

In regard to massacres we have the contras, we have SAVAK, we have pinochet, batista, Suharto, ne win all supported by the west.
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Bismarck
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#99
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#99
Boring. You're starting to repeat yourself.
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inequality
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#100
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#100
(Original post by Bismarck)
Boring. You're starting to repeat yourself.
Obviously unable to argue back then.
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