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    (Original post by inequality)
    Obviously unable to argue back then.
    I did the first 3 times. I have no desire to waste my time arguing with someone who's repeating Marxist propaganda word for word.
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    Nar nar nar nar nar.. Bismarck lost! :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by inequality)
    Technik, you said socialism kept my grandfather down a mine. It was capitalism that made the workers work in such appauling conditions. The rich mine owners cared very little about their workers. When socialism was first indroduced in post war Britain, the object was to give miners rights, health care, the opportunity to form trade unions.
    Was it not the trade-unions that existed in the 70's by having 'block votes' and only considering member interests (rather than the economic reality) that actual led to more unemployment?

    The inflexiblity in the labour market that trade unions created created more unemployment - and as much as you like to whine about capitalism and how it should be about more than 'economic' considerations when it comes down to it people have a better standard of living when they have money in their pocket.

    The purpose of your thread to 'inform' people about socialism is entirely misgudied because the majority of socialist reforms we already agree with (i.e some form of welfare state although we disagree on the extent) etc.) - you are the one misinformed about the whole nature of the socialist ideology that takes a communitarian approach rather than individualist and that has very dangerous implications - usually relating to an increasingly authoritarian government.
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    I have no desire to waste my time arguing with someone who's repeating Marxist propaganda word for word.
    Marxist propaganda?

    You have never given me an answer to the contras, pinochet, batista or ne win. Nor SAVAK, Suharto or Mubutu.
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    (Original post by Vienna)
    And India?
    ooh, I can answer this one for 10 points:

    <buzz>

    British Empire
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    I gave you one answer already, Northumbrian.

    Perhaps we should list all the tyrants in the last century and place them into "Capitalist" and "Socialist" categories.
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    (Original post by JonD)
    I gave you one answer already, Northumbrian.

    Perhaps we should list all the tyrants in the last century and place them into "Capitalist" and "Socialist" categories.
    Good luck...

    How about Salazaar, Franco and Hitler for a start...
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    Hitler the National Socialist, Franco the national socialist, never heard of "Salazaar". Good work so far.
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    Dammit, the Capital/Labor argument of economic principles is out like yesterday's coffee.
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    (Original post by corey)
    The purpose of your thread to 'inform' people about socialism is entirely misgudied because the majority of socialist reforms we already agree with (i.e some form of welfare state although we disagree on the extent) etc.)
    No. Some members disagree with the whole idea of socialism. I didn't even say I was socialist. I just mentioned some of the ways in which socialism helped my family, in order to stop the constant criticism of it.

    You misinterpreted my original post, as have most people who have replied.
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    (Original post by JonD)
    Hitler the National Socialist, Franco the national socialist, never heard of "Salazaar". Good work so far.
    Salazaar was a sort-of nationalist dictator of portugal contemporary with Franco. He's a bit of a funny one as he just did his own thing.
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    Okay, here's three more:

    Stalin, Robert Mugabe and Pol Pot.
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    Maybe we should get some "Capitalist" ones now, I'm having trouble thinking of any more than Pinnocet and the South Korean ones.
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    (Original post by JonD)
    Maybe we should get some "Capitalist" ones now, I'm having trouble thinking of any more than Pinnocet and the South Korean ones.
    The problem with capitalism and dictatorship is that one needs an element of freedom to run a capitalist society that is usually not tolerated by dictatorial leaderships.
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    Hitler wasn't a socialist. I don't believe Mussolini or Franco were National Socialists either? More mainstream fascists.

    Pinochet was a fascist, so if he is included then so is Batista. And the Shah. Suharto and Ne Win weren't exactly socialists. Stalin created State Capitalism. Thatcher was a tyrant, Reagan was a tyrant and Bush is a tyrant. Khomeini and his ilk are petite bouregoisie.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Thatcher was a tyrant, Reagan was a tyrant and Bush is a tyrant.
    I don't think that slandering democratically elected leaders does your argument any favours.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Hitler wasn't a socialist.
    National Socialist, yup.
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    (Original post by inequality)
    No. Some members disagree with the whole idea of socialism. I didn't even say I was socialist. I just mentioned some of the ways in which socialism helped my family, in order to stop the constant criticism of it.

    You misinterpreted my original post, as have most people who have replied.
    I see. Its helped your family, therefore we should stop constant criticism of it.

    Mate, many people disagree with socialism on a matter of principle and everything socialism stands for. We are perfectly allowed to criticise it - you have just bleated on about how your poor grandfather we helped by it (quite frankly, I don't give a damn) - if you want to stop people disagreeing with socialism then perhaps you should learn what the whole ideology entails (don't call it socialism if you want to pick and choose ideas within it) and when you have learnt about it come and justify it.

    Thank you.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    ooh, I can answer this one for 10 points:

    <buzz>

    British Empire
    Whats wrong with India that isnt with Russia? Some of the poorest areas in India are those where the Communist party holds elected power.
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    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    Hitler wasn't a socialist. I don't believe Mussolini or Franco were National Socialists either? More mainstream fascists.
    Fascism is a subset of Capitalism? "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State" sounds more Social to me. They effectively banned capitalism when they banned finance (they didn't like it bcause it wasn't "hard work" like manufacturing); and what was all that about workers councils, wealth redistribution and nationalisation?
    Thatcher was a tyrant, Reagan was a tyrant and Bush is a tyrant.
    Nice to see your complete contempt for democracy, and "the People"/"the workers" who elect them coming through.
    Khomeini and his ilk are petite bouregoisie.
    I thought you said your dad owned a small business that hired immigrants? Oh dear, you're a petite bourgeoise (little middle class for those who don't know marxspeak) too! Then again, most socialists are complete hypocrites in so many ways. How goes the fight for the poor workers? Hah!
 
 
 
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