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    keep EMA!!! its great way of making sure that people turn up to college, attain the grades they are set and complete the work that is set! Having said that, if the students really want the fruits of education they would do so for free and not expect anything in return (in turns of direct cash from the local/national authorities).
    HOWEVER, it does mean that those who are sensible with their cash (like me ) would have more money to pay for university/college expenses and put it towards something good (a kind of step up the ladder). I have not spent a single penny of my EMA (except £30-£40 when i was unemployed during exam week at A2's) and put it into my uni fund. I also worked during weekends, supported myself completely for 3-4 years (high school as well) and if i HAD to worked during the week.
    When i was recieving EMA I came from a single parent family (no not divorced....father was in India - dont want to go into it) and I have always wanted to support myself from the day i was allowed to legally work.

    I think EMA is also attainment based now so people cant really argue that its just for attendance etc... Yes £30,000 isnt a GREAT income but it is enough to finance kids through college (especially if u r local or live in london where transport costs are smallish relatively)

    Mandeep
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    [QUOTE]
    (Original post by Fleff)
    Really? I'm getting pretty far already I'd say.
    I'm predicted ABB, which is the entry requirement for Durham, and I'm starting an AS in maths in year 13 so I can do a biochemistry course there.
    I'd say I'm pretty determined to do well.
    Well you would say that. I can only offer my opinion on what i've seen of course. Also Durham is nothing special, though as you describe it in a past post it is decent.
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    I come from a family of 6. I have 2 brothers that are older than me, and one brother younger. My dad earns i think a gross income of around £37,000 per year, and my eldest brother (money that doesn't benefit me in any way, but he still lives at home) about 14,000 per year, My mum earns a few thousand from a part-time job.

    It's not like we're a rich family, all I get from the government is the £16 a week that my mum recieves for me per week in child benefit. From September, i will have to pay £16 per week minumum for the bus, that basically nullifies all government benefits. I wil get jack sh*t for actually continuing education, whilst the chavs will get £30.

    EMA needs to be changed, so that it is avaliable to more people. I believe there is a system in Australia wheer you can get paid to continue education, and i don't think that is based on household income.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Well you would say that. I can only offer my opinion on what i've seen of course. Also Durham is nothing special, though as you describe it in a past post it is decent.
    And what have you seen? A post saying I'd given up arguing over whether or not I deserve to be on benefits. That does not reflect on my determination to do well in life.
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    And what have you seen? A post saying I'd given up arguing over whether or not I deserve to be on benefits. That does not reflect on my determination to do well in life.

    It shows you dont have much will, it may not reflect but it suggests.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    It shows you dont have much will, it may not reflect but it suggests.
    Or it suggests I don't have much energy at 11 pm after I've been up since god knows what time in the morning. Pick whichever, but I prefer the latter excuse... :p:
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    Or it suggests I don't have much energy at 11 pm after I've been up since god knows what time in the morning. Pick whichever, but I prefer the latter excuse... :p:
    So you'll continue the tax debate in the correct thread after you've had some rest?
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    no need 4 ema......if u want 2 go 2 college go, if u dont wanna go dont go. i dont know of ANYBODY who decides to do alevels, or go college just becuase of EMA. and if someone needs a £30 incentive to do dat.....they r the type of people who will end up on benefits for the rest of their lives anyway (huge generalisation i know!)
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    So you'll continue the tax debate in the correct thread after you've had some rest?
    It's not likely... I don't usually venture into D&D anymore, and I'm at work tomorrow night, and I'm not sitting in my room if it's as hot as it was today. Plus that, I've got some bio work to be doing tomorrow.

    *collapses from the heat*
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    (Original post by topdude)
    no need 4 ema......if u want 2 go 2 college go, if u dont wanna go dont go. i dont know of ANYBODY who decides to do alevels, or go college just becuase of EMA. and if someone needs a £30 incentive to do dat.....they r the type of people who will end up on benefits for the rest of their lives anyway (huge generalisation i know!)
    extremely huge...
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    well is there anyone on tsr who gets EMA, and would not have gone to do alevels if there was none......?
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    That will be the one in Middlesborugh i presume, the one that has doubled the GCSE grades in one year and is sponsored by Sir Peter Vardy who also sponsors one in Gateshead which has 97% 5 GCSE A*-C rate while taking 66% of students from 'deprived' backgrounds. Carry bibles? Do you beleive everthing you read in the local rags? They accept all faiths as well. What wrong with creationism? Give them both theories and let the pupil decide
    The one in Middlebrough came out badly in a recent report didn't it? And yes, they did used to make the kids at Emmanuel College Gateshead carry bibles. They teach creationism and in an advert for an art teacher asked for someone who could 'show the glory of God through art.' What's deprived? And how many kids in the vicinity come from deprived backgrounds?

    No.
    All limos and caviar for you eh?

    Actually private sector works earn alot more than state sector workers. In fact some can send their children to private schools.
    While our public sector rots?

    Well why dont you support freedom?
    I do. But freedom from poverty is a more fundamental freedom, in my view, than freedom to spend your bountiful money on what you want.
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    The one in Middlebrough came out badly in a recent report didn't it?

    No, it doubled its GCSE perfromance. A city academy (unity i think?) did have a not so good report but thats more to do with local council interferance. CTC's do not have this.

    And yes, they did used to make the kids at Emmanuel College Gateshead carry bibles.
    LIE. I know people at uni who went there, its utter nonsence. Did you go there? Have you talked to anyone who went there? Get your facts right.

    They teach creationism and in an advert for an art teacher asked for someone who could 'show the glory of God through art.'
    So? They get 97% success and for every place there are three applicants - you should read John Redwood's new book for more details.

    What's deprived?
    C2 or D class members.

    And how many kids in the vicinity come from deprived backgrounds?
    83% if i remember correctly though these were local council figures so probably wrong


    While our public sector rots?

    It wouldn't if private investment was allowed as i've been telling you again and again.

    I do. But freedom from poverty is a more fundamental freedom, in my view, than freedom to spend your bountiful money on what you want.
    Why? Whats so good about 'postive' freedom? Ever read Berlin?
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    Why? Whats so good about 'postive' freedom? Ever read Berlin?
    It is much more viable than negative freedom for a start. You have a far too optmistic view of human beings. If there was no compulsory tax, no one would pay. Positive freedom means the government is there to protect the freedom of the people from criminals etc.
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    It is much more viable than negative freedom for a start.

    Viable? The USSR had alot of + freedom, but little - freedom and today it doesn't exist. The USA is the opposite and today it is the worlds only superpower.


    You have a far too optmistic view of human beings. If there was no compulsory tax, no one would pay.
    Please put this claim in the releavant thread and i will deal with it there.

    Positive freedom means the government is there to protect the freedom of the people from criminals etc.
    Thats negative freedom.

    Freedom defined as a negative right would mean to define freedom as being free of something. Being free of physical abuse would be an example.

    Freedom defined as a positive right then would understand freedom as being free to self-realisation.
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    Freedom defined as a positive right then would understand freedom as being free to self-realisation.
    And what is wrong with that? I support that.

    Viable? The USSR had alot of + freedom, but little - freedom and today it doesn't exist. The USA is the opposite and today it is the worlds only superpower.
    The USSR had zero freedom. Freedom and Authoritarianism dont usually go in the same sentence.
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    Do you know what really irritates me is that some COMPLAIN about getting only £30 a week to my face. I work 8 hours of my Saturday earning that £30 they get for going to school. Okay, I could accept the EMA if it meant that people who could otherwise not stay on to Further Education go on and bettering themselves. But the people who openly complain to my face saying things like £30 doesn't go far, a couple of t-shirts a week. I really get riled as they want more money. MORE! Does this mean that Parents who earn over £x should subsidise their children £30 a week...funding people's ever growing wardrobe whilst I have to suffer complaining customers for 8 hours! The system just isn't just!
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    And what is wrong with that? I support that.
    Self-realisation at someone else's expense.
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Self-realisation at someone else's expense.
    Of course you don't believe in society but I do.
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    (Original post by zaf1986)
    And what is wrong with that? I support that.



    The USSR had zero freedom. Freedom and Authoritarianism dont usually go in the same sentence.

    It had positive freedom i.e. freedom from unemployment
 
 
 
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