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    (Original post by veryjammy)
    Yes, you pay more tax because you earn more, it's simple. And it goes to the poor. That's repeated throughout the world. Do you have a problem with that? Or is the problem really that someone your age in a family earning substantially less than you gets money you don't? Because that's the real bitter issue here, and you're hiding behind the tax argument.
    Lol, i assure you that i am not hiding from any argument. Does it not concern you that hard earned tax money is being wasted?
    It should be used in the most productive way, and throwing money at people is never the answer.

    I'm sure you would love it if the high earners handed over all of their cash for you to do whatever you please with, but amazingly people like to know what is happening to their money.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    If that was the aim, then this would be a foolish step.

    More teachers, better facilities, better resources of books, computers, and equipment would be the way to really help children in education.

    Labour throw more and more cash at these random exercises, without assessing the benefits of extra teachers and resources.
    At Tony Blairs first city academy for example, 20 staff cuts have just been made, yet half the students are receiving EMA.

    What is the point getting all this money, and driving people to get into school, when there isn't good quality education available?
    It's great to drag poor students into school by their hair, but they need good education, and that should be treat with far greater importance.
    You're missing the point, this isn't about improving facilities or getting better teachers, this is an entirely separate issue. They have a separate budget for that, these things are unrelated, EMA is about ensuring people can continue attending and can afford to carry on their education in the first place.

    You sound like a Daily Mail columnist arguing that a gay choir gets lottery money when our NHS could do with it. That's not the point, money gets distributed in separate ways and needs to be spent in different ways. Improving school facilities and teachers and the like has millions spent on it already, this is nothing to do with that, the money isn't intended to improve schools, it's there to help individual students.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Lol, i assure you that i am not hiding from any argument. Does it not concern you that hard earned tax money is being wasted?
    It should be used in the most productive way, and throwing money at people is never the answer.

    I'm sure you would love it if the high earners handed over all of their cash for you to do whatever you please with, but amazingly people like to know what is happening to their money.
    And like I said before, do you know what every pound of your tax money is being spent on? Or are you picking on this just because the right-wing media kicks up a stink?
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    Here's an idea. Instead of everybody complaining about EMA in TSR, where fellow pupils voice/moan/rant their similar opinions, why doesn't somebody try and voice their opinion to someone who could actually do something about it? In another forum, there's 19 pages worth of the same arguement which is just basically being repeated here, so I'm sure there's enough of an argument here and there to tell somebody who can do something, instead of moaning about it to a bunch of strangers who, in the majority, cannot even vote and have their say anyway.
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    (Original post by veryjammy)
    And like I said before, do you know what every pound of your tax money is being spent on? Or are you picking on this just because the right-wing media kicks up a stink?
    we don't need the right wing media to draw our attention to this, we can see from people we know how the money is mainly being spent. this money is being used in the main as disposable income. it teaches people from a young age to be dependant on the state. i cannot believe you think this is ok! i am sorry, but these people should just get a saturday job. i use the income i get from that to pay for all the things which my parents won't pay for. my parents on principle refuse to spoil me and there is no excuse why the VAST majority - i accept there will be exceptions - of these people can't get a saturday job. end of.
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    *sticks hand in air* Got a part time job. Got EMA.
    I spend my £30 a week, not as disposeable income, but getting to and from college, and buying my lunch. There's some left over, which I save. It goes towards trips to London for art, or to Wales for biology. There's not one pound left my bank account that hasn't HAD to leave it.
    Poor people are, mostly, the ones that value money the most, so actually learn how to save at an early age, and not go round spending it on everything they lay their eyes on.
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    What you have just said makes me cringe. Why should the people who pay so much tax money (which supports the poor!), "get over it" when even more of their hard earned money is being ploughed into Tony Blairs experiments?
    You do raelise there is a co-dependance between the rich and the poor. Maybe you should be more greatful because its 'the poors' hardship which allows your 'hard earned money' to be used in taxes which ultimately are for the benifit of the economy and of course, yourself.
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    I would rather have a free bus pass and get cheaper materials - im going to be taking photography wihhc mean i have to pay for sketch books ect
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    (Original post by beekeeper_)
    Showing an interest in where taxpayers money is going?

    when i go to university this year, and when my sister goes in 2 years time, my parents are not going to be able to fund the whole cost, and i've worked out that my shortfall is going to be around £3,000 p/year, thats right, SHORTFALL. Do "poorer" students go to university with a £3,000 shortfall? Of course not, the government dips into tax payers money to spoon feed them.

    THAT is why i am annoyed, when even more money is handed out to select groups of people, that serves no particular good. How do you know people aren't buying drugs with their educational maintenance handouts?
    That's unfair. I'm from a 'poorer' background and my sister goes to university and I'll be going next year too and I believe her 'shortfall' will be something like £5,000 a year- not really spoonfeeding.
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    You seem to be going to the extreme. What i am saying is that there are hundreds of thousands of students receiving the EMA who come from an economically stable family.
    How many get EMA all together?
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    I voted Good - this is gonna really help me out with bus fares and books and everything...
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    (Original post by HearTheThunder)
    I voted Good - this is gonna really help me out with bus fares and books and everything...
    See, Beekeeper, not all of your tax money goes to worthless causes like you make out.

    You seem to always concentrate on the neagtive aspects of where your money goes, rather than the postive. Yes, the system is not perfect. Yes, some of your money gets wasted. So does some of mine. What is your solution? Get rid of the allowance?

    That means that although some of your hard earned money is saved, those who do need the allowance won't get it. What you need is a different system, that ensures that those who need the money get it, and that those who waste it don't.

    So think of a suggestion for a new system, put forward some creative ideas, just stop the incessant moaning about poor you and your taxes.
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    EMA is a fantastic idea. I worked 20 hours a week when I was in 6th form whilst also doing 5 A Levels so I could afford the rent on my flat, and that extra 30 quid a week would have been really useful.
    I still managed to do well in college, but lots of people are put off staying in education because they can't face being broke for two years. Others work all the hours god sends and screw up academically. EMA is great.
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    (Original post by Economicz)
    EMA is a fantastic idea. I worked 20 hours a week when I was in 6th form whilst also doing 5 A Levels so I could afford the rent on my flat, and that extra 30 quid a week would have been really useful.
    I still managed to do well in college, but lots of people are put off staying in education because they can't face being broke for two years. Others work all the hours god sends and screw up academically. EMA is great.
    Hmm, obviously another waste of your hard earned money Beekeeper :rolleyes: Does this mean that you won't be able to afford the rent on your flat now?
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    (Original post by ant87)
    we don't need the right wing media to draw our attention to this, we can see from people we know how the money is mainly being spent. this money is being used in the main as disposable income. it teaches people from a young age to be dependant on the state. i cannot believe you think this is ok! i am sorry, but these people should just get a saturday job. i use the income i get from that to pay for all the things which my parents won't pay for. my parents on principle refuse to spoil me and there is no excuse why the VAST majority - i accept there will be exceptions - of these people can't get a saturday job. end of.
    Read posts 71 and 73.

    I know someone who works 5 days a week in Safeway, and uses his maintenance allowance, on top of this, to help his mother pay for rent.
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    (Original post by inequality)
    See, Beekeeper, not all of your tax money goes to worthless causes like you make out.

    You seem to always concentrate on the neagtive aspects of where your money goes, rather than the postive. Yes, the system is not perfect. Yes, some of your money gets wasted. So does some of mine. What is your solution? Get rid of the allowance?

    That means that although some of your hard earned money is saved, those who do need the allowance won't get it. What you need is a different system, that ensures that those who need the money get it, and that those who waste it don't.

    So think of a suggestion for a new system, put forward some creative ideas, just stop the incessant moaning about poor you and your taxes.
    Your justification seems to be that its right because of its effects. But this does not take away the act of taking someone's money and giving it to someone else. If you were mugged but were told it was going to an orphanage and knew it went there would you not report it?
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    (Original post by objectivism)
    Your justification seems to be that its right because of its effects. But this does not take away the act of taking someone's money and giving it to someone else. If you were mugged but were told it was going to an orphanage and knew it went there would you not report it?
    Hmm slightly irrelevant comparison. I'd side with Robin Hood the good mugger any day.

    I still can't understand how you consider yourselves to be robbed. You have a free education, free health service, free police force etc. etc. I know some of that money is wasted. But a lot of it goes to good causes. Improving the system doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of some taxes, it just means putting them to better use.
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    i'm going to say its a good idea solely because i have a friend in a very low income houshold who really benefits from it. he doesnt spend it on "x-box" or whatever someone said, he uses it to help his mum out, and to buy bus passes sometimes he would even walk home, a considerable distance, so he could use the money on school stuff. some kids do truly need it, and its a good idea for those, but i dont really think a kid in a 30k household needs it!
    i feel priviledged that i could just get a weekend job to earn money to spend on frivolous things, rather than having to help out with household costs. i think that the poorest students would be denied the possibility of going into FE if they were working all hours.
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    (Original post by ayaan)
    That's unfair. I'm from a 'poorer' background and my sister goes to university and I'll be going next year too and I believe her 'shortfall' will be something like £5,000 a year- not really spoonfeeding.

    I very much doubt it.

    £4,175 loan (£5,175 in London), no tuition fee's to pay.

    Where the heck does she stay at term time, the ritz?
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    (Original post by inequality)
    See, Beekeeper, not all of your tax money goes to worthless causes like you make out.

    You seem to always concentrate on the neagtive aspects of where your money goes, rather than the postive. Yes, the system is not perfect. Yes, some of your money gets wasted. So does some of mine. What is your solution? Get rid of the allowance?

    That means that although some of your hard earned money is saved, those who do need the allowance won't get it. What you need is a different system, that ensures that those who need the money get it, and that those who waste it don't.

    So think of a suggestion for a new system, put forward some creative ideas, just stop the incessant moaning about poor you and your taxes.
    Congratulations, you are officially the most sarcastic, lippy member i have spoken to.

    I never suggested i was "poor" because of these stealth taxes, i am simply questioning the legitimacy of some of them.

    If everyone really spends their EMA on bus fare, why don't the government just dish out free bus passes? Atleast then we would know where the money is going, and it would be more difficult to get around the system.
    At the moment we are handing out money for no good reason, and we have no idea where the money is going.

    Handing out money in such a way is foolish, many students will abuse the system. We already know that some people (on TSR) give their parents half of their EMA for housekeeping.
    We need to sort priorities out, EMA's are not for family upkeep, they are supposed to be used to help with transport and materials.

    It would make so much more sense to just hand out bus passes. Simple.
 
 
 
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