EMA (Education Maintenance Allowance)- The poll. Watch

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objectivism
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#101
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#101
Who is suffering in the long run by me getting EMA?
Taxpayers. Read the thread 'is tax theft'.
I'm going to be working for the government for the rest of my life,
Great. That means tax payers don't just give you EMA but will end up paying your salary!!

i'll more than repay any money that has been given to me. Its not like i'm taking the money and sitting at home doing **** all.
Your still taking money. If you were mugged but you knew it was going to a good cause, does that make the muggin right?
If i hadn't of had EMA i never would have gone to uni

Firstly we have too many people going to uni. The aim of 50% is absurd. We need more manual workers.

Also my point stands: just because you think you going to uni is a good result does not make the process of you funding that moral. There is a difference.
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inequality
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#102
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#102
(Original post by objectivism)
Your argument is basically the same as those of slave owners: it helps me, its my living, i woudn't be here today without it etc. Does that make slavery right, after all you are using the same logic.
You talk out of your arse. That is so illogical. Yes, getting benefits because you are poor is like owning slaves. Is your brain plugged in? Do you need to reboot?
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objectivism
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#103
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#103
(Original post by inequality)
You talk out of your arse. That is so illogical. Yes, getting benefits because you are poor is like owning slaves. Is your brain plugged in? Do you need to reboot?

Its the same logic - something benefits me thus it is defencible.

Why can't you see this? Its very simple so very simple people should understand.
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Sarky
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#104
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#104
So unless i can afford to go to university without EMA i should be a manual worker? Thats bull s h i t. I'll leave uni and get a job instead now shall i? I paid taxes when i worked. I have no problem with my taxes going towards helping people in initiatives like the EMA.

And yes the government will be paying my taxes but they will get more their money back in around 40 years of service and hopefully thousands of people helped.
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Dude
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#105
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#105
I think its a good idea, but its stupid on how you get it. When I first started College (nearly three years ago), I thought "Great, I get some money and my parents won't have to worry about me". But according to the rules then, you had to live in one of 12 areas into order to qualify for it. By the time I was 18, it was avaible to practically everyone.

I then got told about the Adult Learning Grand (which is basically the same thing, but for 19+). And they said I should be able to get it when I turned 19. I am now 19, but they said that I couldn't get it because the course I'm on now, is the same level as the course I did before hand. And you can only get it if you are studying at this level for the first time.

Stupid Government :mad:
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cottonmouth
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#106
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#106
(Original post by objectivism)
Taxpayers. Read the thread 'is tax theft'.


Great. That means tax payers don't just give you EMA but will end up paying your salary!!



Your still taking money. If you were mugged but you knew it was going to a good cause, does that make the muggin right?



Firstly we have too many people going to uni. The aim of 50% is absurd. We need more manual workers.

Also my point stands: just because you think you going to uni is a good result does not make the process of you funding that moral. There is a difference.
hahahaha you are just a complete joke.i really hope you succeed in getting into govt, because youll help keep the tories down where they belong.
your analogies are worse than one did once when trying to say we shouldnt clone humans (lets jsut say aphids got involved) paying tax is not comparable to getting mugged- by living in this country you expect to pay tax; you dont expect to be mugged.taxing is part of law;mugging is against the law. they couldt be further apart.are you saying we are being metaphorically mugged by the govt?do you actually believe what you are saying or do you just like being sensationalist?yes we need manual woprkers, but do they all have to be working class?we should get the UNDERCLASS off their arse to do the manual labour- the ones with no hope of getting an education, the ones who dont work for no reason.bluiunkett will be taking measures to sort this out if you have been following.but working class kids are not jus good for manual labour, and the ema scheme is trying to get a fairer representation of the poulation into uni.
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objectivism
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#107
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#107
So unless i can afford to go to university without EMA i should be a manual worker?
I never said that. Rather you should not feel you have a right to to others bank accounts. In the US many win scholarships for example. People donate such money to funds, thus the money is given voluntarily, it is not forced unlike the money gained to pay for EMA.


I paid taxes when i worked.
You shouldn't have to.

I have no problem with my taxes going towards helping people in initiatives like the EMA.

Than donate to the government. What about people who do have a problem? Must they give because you think its right? Who are you to enforce your morals on them?

And yes the government will be paying my taxes but they will get more their money back in around 40 years of service
That is irrelavant. I'm opposed to all public services funded by compulsory taxes, including state hospitals. Read the thread.

and hopefully thousands of people helped.
Eventhough they didn't chose to but were forced to: pay or go to prison.
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HearTheThunder
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#108
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#108
(Original post by objectivism)
That is irrelavant.
So was your comment about slavery. You seem to be randomly pulling analogies and metaphors from everywhere in the desperate hope of finding some kind of weak link and then presenting it as if you've got a strong case.
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objectivism
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#109
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#109
hahahaha you are just a complete joke.
So much for your apology for the insults you have made in past posts.


your analogies are worse than one did once when trying to say we shouldnt clone humans (lets jsut say aphids got involved)
Incoherent

paying tax is not comparable to getting mugged- by living in this country you expect to pay tax;

I have addressed this in the relavent thread, if you weren't so lazy you'd know.
1) Government and territory are not the same.
2) On your logic people are wrong to protest against the Iraq war or nuclear weapons for example.
3) I never signed any contract.


taxing is part of law;mugging is against the law.
Since when did law= right. Law and justice are not the same. Stalin made many laws, were they all moral?

do you actually believe what you are saying or do you just like being sensationalist?
Of course i believe what i write.

yes we need manual woprkers, but do they all have to be working class?we should get the UNDERCLASS off their arse to do the manual labour- the ones with no hope of getting an education, the ones who dont work for no reason.bluiunkett will be taking measures to sort this out if you have been following.but working class kids are not jus good for manual labour, and the ema scheme is trying to get a fairer representation of the poulation into uni
A good end does not justify the means. Anyway without tax people would donate to universties so they could fund scholarships, like in the US, those who received scholarships would be clever and would have got them for being cleaver not for being poor.
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objectivism
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#110
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#110
(Original post by HearTheThunder)
So was your comment about slavery. You seem to be randomly pulling analogies and metaphors from everywhere in the desperate hope of finding some kind of weak link and then presenting it as if you've got a strong case.

What you have just wrote is a claim. You present no reasoning, i have. Explain why you disagree with the analogy.
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Sarky
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#111
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#111

Have you been taking tips from Vienna on multiple quotes in posts :confused:. Please highlight the bit where i said i had a right to peoples money. I have a right to a decent standard of education. I have worked hard to get where i am, the EMA has helped me to do that. I don't really care what you think to be honest, i think its quite funny the way you relate my receiving an EMA to having slaves. [sarcasm] If that is the case then thats fair enough, my family were slaves so its about time i got something back. [sarcasm/]
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HearTheThunder
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#112
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#112
(Original post by objectivism)
What you have just wrote is a claim. You present no reasoning, i have. Explain why you disagree with the analogy.
Slavery --> Tax

Slavery = Inhumane acts of violence and against human rights
Tax = Paying money in order to fund government services

Completely unlinked... if you would want to keep the EMA would you agree to getting rid of other areas of wasted tax or do you just think any tax is 'slavery'
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objectivism
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#113
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#113
Please highlight the bit where i said i had a right to peoples money.
As shown by your desperate justification i.e you'll pay it back etc.

I have a right to a decent standard of education.

No you don't. Morally you only have negative rights, not positve rights. When you gain state education, someone loses their money and so freedom

I have worked hard to get where i am, the EMA has helped me to do that.
Since when did hard work justify theft?

I don't really care what you think to be honest, i think its quite funny the way you relate my receiving an EMA to having slaves.
If you can't see the link perhaps a uni education is wasted on you.
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Sarky
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#114
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#114
(Original post by objectivism)


If you can't see the link perhaps a uni education is wasted on you.

Luckily thats not for you to decide. I am having a university education, i have had EMA, i will be paid by the government to help people. If you don't like it? Tough.

Out of interest, when you get prescriptions do you pay the full price or the standard £6.50? If you pay the standard price which the government subsidise for more expensive medications i hope you know you are stealing. You must also pay for all your education otherwise you'd be a hypocrite. You don't take anything from the government do you?
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objectivism
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#115
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#115
Slavery = Inhumane acts of violence and against human rights
Tax = Paying money in order to fund government services

Your defintion of 'inhumane' is arbitary. What about the human right to keep the fruits of your labour?


Slavery = No choice, but justied on the grounds that its ends justify it i.e that it was vital for wealth and the economy
Tax= No choice, but is justified on the grounds that it ends jusify it i.e 'free' education etc

Furthermore if you actually look at the comment that was made it was that EMA is good because it benefits the person. Slavery benefits the owner, but that does not make slavery right. My analogy was directed towards that comment which you should know.


Completely unlinked... if you would want to keep the EMA would you agree to getting rid of other areas of wasted tax or do you just think any tax is 'slavery'

You obviously haven't been doing much reserach. I believe all coerced tax to be theft. In fact there's a whole thread dedicated to the issue - 'is tax theft'.
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cottonmouth
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#116
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#116
(Original post by objectivism)
So much for your apology for the insults you have made in past posts.




Incoherent




I have addressed this in the relavent thread, if you weren't so lazy you'd know.
1) Government and territory are not the same.
2) On your logic people are wrong to protest against the Iraq war or nuclear weapons for example.
3) I never signed any contract.




Since when did law= right. Law and justice are not the same. Stalin made many laws, were they all moral?



Of course i believe what i write.



A good end does not justify the means. Anyway without tax people would donate to universties so they could fund scholarships, like in the US, those who received scholarships would be clever and would have got them for being cleaver not for being poor.
yeh, so much for them, mr pedantic.your spelling is often atrocious, and is not down to typo errors.look back, mate. incoherent?well an intelligent person could see through the fact i forgot to put an "i".the reason wont look is because, as i have finally stated in your godforsaken tax thread, you keep coming up with pathetic analogies, and churning out sutff you have read and pretensing they are from you.your arguments are not your own, you should write to these authors and get them to pay you for advertising.not that you're doing the best job at selling them.i believe in freedom of speech, so people can protest all they want.i am not saying people cant protest against tax, but im saying people have to accept it by living here.just as we had to accept the war.so there, another little analogy of yours ruined.no law and justice are not the same, but then tax is not an injustice, so who cares? and are you trying to tell me that people like you would give funding to unis to help poorer people?out of your own hard-earned precious money?if you hate it unwillingly, you wouldnt so it willingly.are you sayin the only reason you dont like tax is because you have to pay it? so if it was voluntary, you would pay it? whallever duuuude
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inequality
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#117
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#117
Objectivism. If you were a poor student, who relied on the NHS and state education, would you expect the allowance? Or would you maintain your high opinion that tax is robbery and refuse it on that principle?
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objectivism
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#118
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#118
Luckily thats not for you to decide. I am having a university education, i have had EMA, i will be paid by the government to help people. If you don't like it? Tough.
That does not make my views wrong, it just makes them not in practice yet.

Out of interest, when you get prescriptions do you pay the full price or the standard £6.50? If you pay the standard price which the government subsidise for more expensive medications i hope you know you are stealing.
I dont get prescriptions, im never so ill as to need them. Either way I go private.

You must also pay for all your education otherwise you'd be a hypocrite.
My parents do.

You don't take anything from the government do you?
Accept police protection for example. However your points about health, education etc are irrelavant. Just because someone offers you something does not mean you must take it. You had a choice with EMA, where's the choice with a police force?
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HearTheThunder
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#119
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#119
(Original post by objectivism)
Your defintion of 'inhumane' is arbitary. What about the human right to keep the fruits of your labour?
Slavery = No choice, but justied on the grounds that its ends justify it i.e that it was vital for wealth and the economy
Tax= No choice, but is justified on the grounds that it ends jusify it i.e 'free' education etc
Furthermore if you actually look at the comment that was made it was that EMA is good because it benefits the person. Slavery benefits the owner, but that does not make slavery right. My analogy was directed towards that comment which you should know.
You obviously haven't been doing much reserach. I believe all coerced tax to be theft. In fact there's a whole thread dedicated to the issue - 'is tax theft'.
There's a big difference between giving a bit of your money to keep the country working and being forced into labour for no money at all. Yeah there's no choice but what's the alternative? I haven't read the tax theft thread yet so perhaps you could inform me what you would do instead of tax.

I really don't see what's wrong... I get EMA, then I pay taxes, for other people to get EMA, it's a big circular flow. When I pay taxes to give people EMA when I have a job I certainly won't feel like a slave in fact I'll be grateful since it's going to help me out so much and happy to pay it.
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Sarky
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#120
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#120
Lucky you :rolleyes:

And if people can't afford to pay for their own prescriptions? If they can't afford to pay for private education? Did your parents not take child benefit? That is offered to every child regardless of how much money is earned.
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