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TSR Classical Music Society watch

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    I find Barber's Adagio for Strings pretty sad and Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is a definite for me. Oh, and Chopin's Fantasie-Impromptu Op. 66 is a good one as well for me.
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    Ah yes Moonlight Sonata!

    Barber's Adagio is what I was thinking of! Albioni Adagio is good too
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    Never EVER EVER go to see the Cobweb Orchestra... they are appalling!!!
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    Interesting name for an orchestra! Where are they based?
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    It would be amazing to hear this live with an orchestra..

    Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis - R. Vaughan-Williams
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    Gateshead I think... or somewhere north... they're awful, I heard them at the Sage.. they let anyone in...
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    I'll avoid them then!
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    (Original post by doctor_b)
    It would be amazing to hear this live with an orchestra..

    Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis - R. Vaughan-Williams
    It's even more amazing to actually be part of an orchestra playing it! I did it last year with my university string orchestra, and it was fantastic...
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    Why are there so many people with really conservative taste around here. I mean, moonlight is hardly Beethoven's best, and bocherrini - I mean what the ****'s the point of that?

    MB
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    Sad: Richard Strauss - Four Last Songs.
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    (Original post by musicbloke)
    Why are there so many people with really conservative taste around here. I mean, moonlight is hardly Beethoven's best, and bocherrini - I mean what the ****'s the point of that?

    MB
    Don't know many of Beethoven's works, other than the most famous? :confused:
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    (Original post by musicbloke)
    Why are there so many people with really conservative taste around here?
    (Original post by sexysax)
    Don't know many of Beethoven's works, other than the most famous? :confused:
    If you ask people who don't listen to much classical music what their favourite pieces (or 'songs') are, then they'll reel off the most popular, well-known works, as those are all they've been exposed to. "Taste" implies making a choice, or at least having a predisposition that arises from experience. As it can't be said to apply in this case you can't call it "conservative".

    Concluding aphorism: Taste may only begin when ignorance has ended.
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    (Original post by musicbloke)
    Why are there so many people with really conservative taste around here. I mean, moonlight is hardly Beethoven's best, and bocherrini - I mean what the ****'s the point of that?

    MB
    Most people don't know much of Beethoven's work other than his most famous stuff, and if they like it there's nowt wrong with that. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by musicbloke)
    Why are there so many people with really conservative taste around here. I mean, moonlight is hardly Beethoven's best, and bocherrini - I mean what the ****'s the point of that?

    MB
    I don't care if this sounds anal, but are you going to ever answer that post of mine from a couple of months ago?


    Also - about Boccherini - have you heard any of his cello sonatas or concertos? They're fines examples of the earlyish classical style.
    --------------

    (Original post by silverjonny)
    Sad: Richard Strauss - Four Last Songs.
    I agree. I did that in the summer, along with his Ein Heldenleben, and definitely recommend both pieces.
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    (Original post by lilsk8achic666)
    Most people don't know much of Beethoven's work other than his most famous stuff, and if they like it there's nowt wrong with that. :rolleyes:
    I don't think you can say that someone has "conservative taste" in classical music if all they've been exposed to are the most famous pieces. Having "taste" implies having preferences, for which you need experience.

    Of course there's nothing wrong with liking the Pathétique or what have you; however, I doubt that someone who has listened to all of Beethoven's piano sonatas would rate it as their favourite. I think it's a shame that people don't follow up their initial enjoyment by widening their listening. If they subsequently did, and still returned to the most famous pieces, then I think you could call them "conservative".

    Obviously, they might also be "conservative" in the slightly different sense of only listening to 19th Century and earlier - but again I think that implies having listened to and disliked compositions of the 20th Century.
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    (Original post by Kew)
    What's crazy about it? Whether or not you like the pieces, they are masterpieces in the opinion of many other people. Just because I don't like a certain piece, it doesn't stop me acknowledging it as a masterpiece; for example, I'm not really a fan of atonal or twelve-tone music, but that doesn't stop me from recognising how great a composer Stravinsky was. And in any case, just because that trumpet concerto might not be Haydn't best piece (though how can we really tell - it's too subjective surely?), it doesn't mean I can't like it enough to want to play it.
    I never particularly approved of the idea of 'masterpiece'. In fact, I don't really approve of assigning good or bad so arbitrarily. You must be careful with terms such as 'subjective' though. Just because most serious musicology focuses on hermeneutic analysis, it is not inherently subjective in the most Romantic and individualist context of your comments. Yes, there may well be such thing as good music, whether we can know for certain what is 'good' is a much more complex issue, mainly related to the nature of society as a mask. In the same vain, you can't be wrong to want to play something, but you may ascribe inherently false values.

    (Original post by Kew)
    :confused: You don't think much of Rossini? What do you think of the first passage of the 'William Tell'? (See my edit in my last post). I can't listen to it without feeling something within me melt;
    Is this a metaphor? If yes, then what for?

    (Original post by Kew)
    I've tried playing the solo cello part of the quintet, and doing so just strengthens my feelings. The overture to 'Semiramis' is good too. Why not listen to them again? I often find that with a piece I don't really like on first hearing, I think better of it having heard it a few more times.
    Urgh, semiramide is possibly the most banal turgid piece i've had the displeasure to listen to. Laced with crude low art imagery and studied by thos select anoraks who are yet to discover Wagner.

    (Original post by Kew)
    About Dvorak being 'dry and academic' - I'm truly gobsmacked! To be honest I've heard the same thing said about Brahms, and I couldn't believe it then either. Talking about fantastic horn solos, there is a great one in the first movement of the Dvorak cello concerto, which is later played by the solo cellist - it's said that when he first composed it, it moved Dvorak to tears,
    What a wonderful way to judge a piece of music. I mean come on, self-absorbtion or what? You need to deal with the fact that emotions lead to false values and I am personally a believer in the effects of the enlightenment.

    (Original post by Kew)
    and I can certainly see why. It is glorious. Have you heard Brahms 3? I played it last year, and it is far from dry or unemotional. I particularly recommend first theme in the second movement, played for the first time by the cello section.
    What do you mean by emotion in this sense. Can it be analysed out, is it supervenient, or what?

    (Original post by Kew)
    What do you think of the Schubert?
    Mixed feelings.

    MB
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    Thank you for replying - though I had actually been hoping for a reply to post #201 rather than to the one you've answered.

    (Original post by musicbloke)
    I never particularly approved of the idea of 'masterpiece'
    In fact, I don't really approve of assigning good or bad so arbitrarily. You must be careful with terms such as 'subjective' though. Just because most serious musicology focuses on hermeneutic analysis, it is not inherently subjective in the most Romantic and individualist context of your comments. Yes, there may well be such thing as good music, whether we can know for certain what is 'good' is a much more complex issue, mainly related to the nature of society as a mask.
    Yet you referred to the Schubert 'Trout' theme and variations as a 'masterpiece' in an earlier post.

    Is this a metaphor? If yes, then what for?
    Obviously it's a metaphor - my insides don't literally melt! I meant that listening to that piece arouses in me the emotions that create the feeling that something within one is melting. It's really hard to describe (the fact of which shows how deep-seated those feelings are).



    Urgh, semiramide is possibly the most banal turgid piece i've had the displeasure to listen to. Laced with crude low art imagery and studied by thos select anoraks who are yet to discover Wagner.
    In your opinion.


    What a wonderful way to judge a piece of music. I mean come on, self-absorbtion or what? You need to deal with the fact that emotions lead to false values and I am personally a believer in the effects of the enlightenment.
    Look, I can appreciate and judge music on terms other than emotional, you know. I may study historical musicology rather than theory & analysis as such, but it doesn't mean that I can't take a more 'objective' stance when discussing music. But we're discussing emotion in its relation to music, so emotion in music is what I was talking about. If Dvorak - the composer of the piece in question - was profoundly moved by that particular theme, then it is of significance to anyone wishing to analyse the place of emotion in music. I admit that the effect of a piece on its composer will inevitably in some ways be dissimilar to the effect it has on listeners, but I very much doubt that all the basic emotions involved are different. The extent to which this is true is, I suppose, the crux of this particular Dvorak-related discussion.

    What do you mean by emotion in this sense. Can it be analysed out, is it supervenient, or what?
    I'm not sure, to be honest. I've never formally studied psychology, so I'm not fully read up on current academic thought about human emotion. When I have the time I'll look up about the particular musico-psychological connection that makes this relevant to this debate.
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    The trouble is, the fact that the extent to which music can be judged 'good', 'bad' or any shade in between can never be entirely defined means that this debate can never really come to a proper conclusion. You might find Wagner one of the greatest Western composers ever to have lived, but many other musicologists, just as qualified as you if not more, disagree.
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    Can someone recommend some good Puccini?
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    I'll join!
 
 
 
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