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    You "thawt" wrong.
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    Don't let this lot put you off.

    The salary is in fact good, although it obviously will vary between airlines and the amount of experience you actually have. Considering the job does not require a degree, the salary is in fact excellent.

    No specific A levels are required, although I've just got my PPL and I found my AS level maths and physics is very useful, so it's definitely worth taking them on. But it's probably worth getting an A in English say rather than a D in maths, so chose wisely

    As for a degree, mainly airline pilots have degrees now, as it's very competitive. There's been some discussion about how your worse of with a degree, seeing as banks will not give you out loans for flying if you already have university loans. However, at the end of the day, I'd definitely suggest a degree. As my flight instructor informed me, it's the type of job were one bad medical can end your career. It's good to have a back up plan!

    There's lots to say actually. Assuming you live in the UK, you'll firstly have to gain your Private Pilots License - which will likely cost you about £5,000. Roughly that is, it's best to check around flight schools for prices. Don't just go for the cheapest - pick the best! Following this, you have your Commerical Pilots License and then finally, the big one: your ATPL. This is the one which costs you a lot of money.

    Sponsorships are available, but difficult to get hold of, so get saving!

    Of course, it's a great job and it will pay off greatly in the end.

    There's also aviation related courses, such as those at Leeds and L'pool. I myself was hoping to go to Leeds, but seeing as I already have my PPL, it'd be no use to me. In fact, the degree course there is absolutely useless. 3 years of tuition fees plus flying costs to come out with just your PPL, spend your money more wisely

    Oh and as for the RAF, that's an option, if you like less travelling, being bossed around and getting paid much less. The requirements for a military pilot aren't as high as that of an airline pilot. Surely this says it all.
    Stop ****ging off airline pilots people. If the job wasn't as great, why wouldn't they be paid as much?
    :P

    Good luck to you.
    Add me to msn if you wanna talk, or whatever ..... [email protected]
    xx
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    (Original post by PilotClaire)
    Oh and as for the RAF, that's an option, if you like less travelling, being bossed around and getting paid much less. The requirements for a military pilot aren't as high as that of an airline pilot. Surely this says it all.

    Less travelling? When I go somewhere, it's for a few weeks, and there's plenty of opportunities to see the destination. You won't find many RAF pilots pitching up, sleeping 6 hours for min crew rest, and flying out again; like you will with BA's European routes right now!

    Being bossed around? I've never been bossed around, and I've been in the RAF for 8 years. There are some "orders" given, but you'll get a lot more bossy people in your average airline.

    Paid much less? Two years out of university I was earning £32k pa. With only 200 hours under my belt I was earning £39k pa. Once qualified, I was earning £45k pa. Longer term, by the time you'd be becoming an airline captain, your RAF pilot could easily be on £50-60k pa.

    When was the last time you looked at the actual, current, valid terms and conditions involved in joining an airline? The days of training captains on £120k pa are over. Join now and you will not be earning the same scales as guys who joined 10 years ago. You will not have the same rostering, and you will not have all the advantages. It's changed! If you've just got your PPL, I'll assume you haven't yet got an airline job; at the last count, 13 of my close mates are airline pilots. These are facts.

    The academic requirements for being a military pilot may indeed be slightly; very slightly; lower than that of an airline pilot. But look at the medical, aptitude and capacity requirements. An average military pilot; heck, even a bad military pilot; is a very very great deal more capable than ANY airline pilot. And that came from the mouth of a British Airways training captain visiting my old unit; BA have decided that there's such a massive performance difference between "self-improver" ATPL holders and those with ex-military experience that they want to try and crew up everyone with a guy with RAF experience. We're that good

    (Original post by PilotClaire)
    Stop ****ging off airline pilots people. If the job wasn't as great, why wouldn't they be paid as much?
    Stop ****ging off the RAF with utterly no knowledge of what they do. I was in a Welsh valley at 420kts the other week; ask any airline pilot, most would give their left arm for that kind of flying. If flying a bunch of lager louts to Ibiza in the middle of the night, with poor rostering and a very average paycheck for a long time, is your bag, then be my guest.

    Why wouldn't they be paid as much? We'd get paid more if we weren't a publicly funded organisation. And airline pilots are not paid that much anymore; I'll get my mates to post their most recent paychecks if you like!
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    Wzz said:
    BA have decided that there's such a massive performance difference between "self-improver" ATPL holders and those with ex-military experience that they want to try and crew up everyone with a guy with RAF experience.
    Wzz - Not true. During training you are paired up with a training buddy who you go through the groundschool and sim training with. Once you have passed your final line check you are treated equally with every other pilot on your fleet in accordance with the rostering system implemented; generally 'bidline', which is a method of bidding each month for your work allocation based on time in the company (seniority).

    Wzz said:
    As a Second Officer for RyanAir under training you earn £8600 a year.
    I've just looked at the Terms & Conditions section of the BALPA website; Ryanair S/O starting salary £21567 and F/O £25283 plus £18-20k net pa allowances (Happy to send you the full information sheet, Wizz, if you don't have access). These are amongst the lowest in the (jet) business. If there is a specific airline's T&Cs you are interested in ask BALPA for the factsheet. If you join BALPA you get full access to this information (Associate Trainee Membership is free).

    Wzz said:
    Cathay Pacific salaries start at around £38 000pa
    BALPA website 2004 figures: Cathay Cargo F/O £41748 + allows, Cathay Pax F/O £55242 + allows. These jobs would require some previous airline experience.

    Wzz said:
    The days of training captains on £120k pa are over.
    Wzz - You should ask your mates for a BA pp24 Captain's salary with training uplift (It's in Schedule A of the BA Pilots MOA).

    Wzz said:
    Join now and you will not be earning the same scales as guys who joined 10 years ago....13 of my close mates are airline pilots. These are facts.
    BALPA has worked hard to get rid of secondary pay scales. BA got rid of these in the 2003 pay agreement.

    Wzz said:
    Stop ****ging off the RAF with utterly no knowledge of what they do. I was in a Welsh valley at 420kts the other week; ask any airline pilot, most would give their left arm for that kind of flying. If flying a bunch of lager louts to Ibiza in the middle of the night, with poor rostering and a very average paycheck for a long time, is your bag, then be my guest.
    :confused: Erm, I think the person who started this thread was trying to acquire factual information relating to their proposed career. Perhaps you would like to quantify an RAF career in terms of pay and Ts & Cs for Motherless Child et al.

    For anyone interested in becoming an airline pilot, I suggest you visit the British Airline Pilots Association website at balpa.org for factual information. It has a massive archive of terms and conditions for airline pilots worldwide. Remember, pay is just a part of the package.

    PPrune pprune.org also has a wealth of information and people to ask on the various forums.

    Flight International is a good 'trade' magazine (generally read from the back ) which should give you an idea of how buoyant the market is. I suggest the next year will see a significant amout of hiring by the airlines due to the knock on effect of DEPs joining BA from other airlines. A company called CTC (who have been around for a decade or so) are currently advertising for cadets to start partially funded training in association with several airlines. CTC Wings

    Airline pilots are paid a fair remuneration for the work we do and responsibility we carry. However, anyone thinking of a career in aviation needs to be 100% certain of their commitment, and research the cost of training and Airline Pilots' Terms & Conditions fully in addition to the remuneration. Talk to pilots who have done it.

    If you do decide to fork out your own cash (or your parents!) for training, as stated earlier there is no guarantee of a job at the end of it. Training from ab initio generally takes about 12-18 months assuming you pass everything first time. Try the website oxfordaviation.net - although expensive, it is highly regarded in the industry, and has all the pricing details together with a good forum and career information. Wzz was correct about the academic qualifications, although the ATPL exams do require a reasonable level of maths and physics. If you make it through to holding an ATPL and getting a job interview, then the airline will assess you using their own tests.

    The very first thing you should do is to complete a Class One medical and aptitude test before spending any serious amount of hard earned cash.

    Wzz said:
    Other people will read this, and there's no point in setting people off on a career as difficult as commercial aviation without the correct facts in their laps.
    Do your research. Becoming a pilot (airline or military) is not an easy route to earning loads of dosh. If it is a high flying salary you want, look elsewhere.

    Happy landings!

    Regards,

    VeeOne
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    So glad that you proved Wzz wrong. Well done VeeOne and PilotClaire
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    Wzz hasn't been on to respond, but so glad to see how immature some people can be by coming on just to say that.
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    Do a services course. You know you HAVE to have 20/20 eyesight to be a pilot dont you?
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    you only need 20/20 vision if you want to be a pilot in the forces. You dont need perfect vision in civilian as long as you have the correct glasses/contacts.


    Also now there are a couple of qualified pilots on here i was wondering if you could help with this question. This is for PPL Aircraft Gen....

    Static pressure drawn from an alternate static source in the cockpit of an average light aircraft will be:
    a) exactly the same as the outside 'ambient' pressure
    b) less than the outsided 'ambient' pressure
    c) the same as pitot pressure

    I thought it was A as most light aircraft arnt pressurised and most have vents to the outsided making the pressure the same as outside. However the anwser in the book is B which i cannot possibly understand. Does anyone know why it is B or is the book wrong. Any help would be appreciated
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    from pprune:

    (a) will vary from aircraft to aircraft. Static port location is a major part of the certification test program - the alternate is permitted considerably more latitude in maximum error. Normally the alternate error corrections, while considerably more than for the primary system, are not overly great. There are some design standard requirements which require that the primary errors are tightly constrained.

    (b) the ASI is a differential pressure gauge - not a speed gauge. Rather than calibrate the dial in pressure units which might confuse people, we use a standard equation to relate pressures to an equivalent speed value. However, this equivalence is accurate only at sea level for standard conditions. Elsewhere, the ASI tells fibs. One of the fibs is covered by the normal density correction using either a prayerwheel or the instrument equivalent adjustment ring. Another is due to errors associated with the compressible nature of air - if you don't allow for this error at higher speeds, then the instrument reading will include a not insignificant error. What speed you might get concerned about compressibility corrections is not all that critical but around 200-250 kt IAS at low level is probably a reasonable point to become interested.

    If you want to check out the background, have a look at any standard undergrad aerodynamics textbook or else at some of the relevant sites listed in the Tech Log URL sticky. However, unless your maths is up to speed, you might find the details more confusing than illuminating. From a practical point of view, it is more important to be aware of the error's existence and correction, than the derivation from first principles ...
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    That makes no sense at all. The question is nothing to do with the ASI and i do know how that works. The question is asking whether pressure inside the plane is the same as outside, less than outside or the same as pitot pressure which is basically the pressure created by the plane moving forward
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    Can you become an airline pilot if you have had laser eye surgery?
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    I dont see why not as long as you have the required standerd of eyesight with/without corrective lenses......now.....please someone anwser my question pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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    (Original post by flyboy123)
    That makes no sense at all. The question is nothing to do with the ASI and i do know how that works. The question is asking whether pressure inside the plane is the same as outside, less than outside or the same as pitot pressure which is basically the pressure created by the plane moving forward
    http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ess+in+cockpit

    or why don't you try looking it up yourself?
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    BA have just reintroduced their cadet training scheme after having ceased it in the wake of the Sept 11th attacks. Out of 300 applicants, they have only chosen 12 to go on full time training at their flight school in the south of spain, one off which is my brother (v proud little sister! ). Anyway, he did maths/further maths/physics kind of subjects in aussie and did aeronautical engineering at university, so it looks like you have to be pretty focussed if that's what you want to do. BUT there are other ways, RAF etc, and if you have plenty of money then you could pay your own way through flight school!
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    my dad is an airline pilot.

    he got his private pilot lisense at 16. went to uni for pre-law. joined the air force, was in there for 11 years. then started working at american airlines and it's been 12 years of that.

    embry riddle is a good pilot uni in the US.
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    (Original post by VeeOne)
    Wzz - Not true. During training you are paired up with a training buddy who you go through the groundschool and sim training with. Once you have passed your final line check you are treated equally with every other pilot on your fleet in accordance with the rostering system implemented; generally 'bidline', which is a method of bidding each month for your work allocation based on time in the company (seniority).
    Sorry mate, I met the same chap Wzz refers to and he did indeed say they see better performance and airmanship from ex-military mates; there's no comment about increased seniority, but this was a current very senior pilot for a major national carrier saying that they've decided they need less "self-improvers" and more ex-mil types.

    (Original post by VeeOne)
    S/O starting salary £21567 and F/O £25283 plus £18-20k net pa allowances (Happy to send you the full information sheet, Wizz, if you don't have access). These are amongst the lowest in the (jet) business. If there is a specific airline's T&Cs you are interested in ask BALPA for the factsheet. If you join BALPA you get full access to this information (Associate Trainee Membership is free).
    You've quoted a few PPRuNe addresses; haven't you read the tales about RyanAir SOs having to borrow money from their captains for dinner? The SO scheme doesn't actually pay you for some months; and while it eventually adds up to a £21k salary, it's all pretty much nonsense; you're paying for your own line training, you don't earn during the initial stages... I'll look out a URL where some chap on PPRuNe posted explaining to the nearest penny what was on his payslip at the end of every month. There were several months where it was pretty much zero!


    (Original post by VeeOne)
    BALPA website 2004 figures: Cathay Cargo F/O £41748 + allows, Cathay Pax F/O £55242 + allows. These jobs would require some previous airline experience.
    Check out PPJN, which is where I reckon Wzz has got his figures from.


    (Original post by VeeOne)
    Wzz - You should ask your mates for a BA pp24 Captain's salary with training uplift (It's in Schedule A of the BA Pilots MOA).
    And you should ask your mates about the current time to command in BA. Admittedly, I'm lifting my thoughts on this from PPRuNe, but I've learned to trust a lot of the people on it. You may be able to earn a happy 6 figure salary as a top BA LH mate, but how are you going to get there when they seem to want a minimum of 18 years or something daft like that?

    (Original post by VeeOne)
    :confused: Erm, I think the person who started this thread was trying to acquire factual information relating to their proposed career. Perhaps you would like to quantify an RAF career in terms of pay and Ts & Cs for Motherless Child et al.
    Well, let the guy defend his bunch. The RAF's T&Cs are a lot less complex, and a lot less changeable than those of a bunch of guys like Ryanair.

    (Original post by VeeOne)
    For anyone interested in becoming an airline pilot, I suggest you visit the British Airline Pilots Association website at balpa.org for factual information.
    I recommend you visit the T&C forum on PPRuNe, along with the Jobs forum, for a lot of chat from people who are actually doing it.
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    Forgot to mention that it is picking up a fair amount; which is nice, because it means they'll reintroduce FRIs for military aircrew and I'll get big chunks of cash while mates run off to airline jobs

    Here's some interesting gen. Copied from PPRuNe.......................

    I am a First Officer in Ryanair and here is exactly how I am being payed in the first 12 months:

    Type rating (4-6 WEEKS):

    No pay

    You then wait 2-4 weeks for base training without pay. After base training you are on the training contract basic rate for 6 months. This is an annual rate of 8700 pounds. However, you do not start getting payed this until after line training. Line training takes 2-3 months so you are therefore only payed on this rate for 3-4 months. Sounds complicated? It is purposely so.Not only that, but the company reduces this initial rate by 1000 pounds every year or so without notice. Next year you might therefore expect the rate to be 7700 pounds.

    So, from the start of type rating until conclusion of line training you will only have earned about 750 pounds (half sector pay after safety pilot release and no basic salary yet).

    About 3.5 months now remain until you finish your training contract. On the annual rate of 8700 (remember this will reduce eventually) you will earn 2530 basic in this time. Also, you will earn 2800 sector pay.

    To sum up so far:

    Day 1 to completion of line check ( 4 months) = 750 pounds

    Line check to end of training contract (3.5 months) = 5330 pounds

    Total after 7.5 months with the company = 6080 pounds.

    It will now have been 6 months since base check. You will now go on the basic second officer terms. This amounts to a basic annual rate of 14000 pounds and half sector pay for a further 6 months.

    In these 6 months you will therefore earn 7000 pounds basic and about 4800 pounds sector pay. This basic rate is also being reduced annually without notice.

    Ok, here are the final figures (before tax) for the first 12 months after the base check:

    Basic pay: 9530 pounds

    Sector pay: 8350 pounds

    Total: 17880 Pounds.

    You can expect to remain on second officer pay scale for 18 months after line check. This will probably increase to a greater time period as time goes by.
    There you go; from the horse's mouth. Get thee to PPRuNe and learn the truth! If I were looking for an airline, I'd certainly avoid one which a website full of pilots seems to hate...
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    Also (sorry, reading this as I go), notice that sector pay seems to equal basic pay?

    That's bloody dangerous; you'll end up with blokes refusing to go sick because they don't want their pay halved for a couple of weeks.... *shudder*
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    (Original post by flyboy123)
    That makes no sense at all. The question is nothing to do with the ASI and i do know how that works. The question is asking whether pressure inside the plane is the same as outside, less than outside or the same as pitot pressure which is basically the pressure created by the plane moving forward
    Mate, it's less. In an unpressurised cockpit, there's a venturi effect created which "sucks" a small amount of air out of the cockpit, hence pressure inside is less than the static pressure outside.

    What BH is chatting about is pertinent in an aircraft like the Firefly, where the emergency static vent is in the cockpit. If your external main static vent is blocked, you switch to the emergency, which gives you a lower static reference; hence an overreading altimeter, and a confused ASI.
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    i know its less and actually that question cam eup in my exam and i put less but i wanted to know why. Thanks for helping but how does the venturi form. Doesnt a venturi form where a tube becomes smaller at one point or somthing creating the same effect? I dont deny that the pressure is lower in the cockpit i just wondered why
 
 
 
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