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    (Original post by vienna95)
    it goes against civil liberties?
    it would do serious damage to trade..?
    It does not go against civil liberties, what about the civil liberties of someone who does not wish to breathe in smoke?
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    (Original post by Mark_KK)
    It does not go against civil liberties, what about the civil liberties of someone who does not wish to breathe in smoke?
    Good point mark.
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    (Original post by vavavoom)
    Is having civil liberities worth the risk of all those deaths due to cancer?
    the deaths of people who chose. is drinking worth the millions of pounds spent by the government on the vandalism, damage and consequences of alcohol? and the thousands of deaths and injuries it causes?
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    (Original post by vavavoom)
    Good point mark.
    choose. choose not to go into that bar. choose to sit in the non-smoking area of the restaurant.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    the deaths of people who chose. is drinking worth the millions of pounds spent by the government on the vandalism, damage and consequences of alcohol? and the thousands of deaths and injuries it causes?
    Several hundred people die every year from lung cancer caused by passive smoking. Did these people have a choice?

    As I have mentioned before this is about smoking, why are we now going on to talk about drinking?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    it goes against civil liberties?
    it would do serious damage to trade..?
    Oh here we go again with the civil liberties argument. If smokers have the right to affect my health in a public place through the deliberate release of toxic chemicals for no benefit to society other than to please themselves, then surely I should have the civil liberty as you put it to go around releasing cyanide into public places if doing so made me happy? What's the difference? Surely by your logic this is an impeachment of my civil liberties?

    On your second point, so now we're putting trade above human life? I don't think that even merits a response.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    choose. choose not to go into that bar. choose to sit in the non-smoking area of the restaurant.
    Why should I choose to stay out of that bar just because people are choosing to smoke inside it?

    Also many restauarants still DO NOT offer seperate smoking and no smoking areas and even those that do often do not do this effectivley!
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    (Original post by rahaydenuk)
    Oh here we go again with the civil liberties argument. If smokers have the right to affect my health in a public place through the deliberate release of toxic chemicals for no benefit to society other than to please themselves, then surely I should have the civil liberty as you put it to go around releasing cyanide into public places if doing so made me happy? What's the difference? Surely by your logic this is an impeachment of my civil liberties?

    On your second point, so now we're putting trade above human life? I don't think that even merits a response.
    One of the best answers that I have seen to this question in ages!
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    (Original post by Mark_KK)
    Why should I choose to stay out of that bar just because people are choosing to smoke inside it?
    because you dont want to breathe smoke?

    Also many restauarants still DO NOT offer seperate smoking and no smoking areas and even those that do often do not do this effectivley!
    well, thats a matter for the government to look at.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    choose. choose not to go into that bar. choose to sit in the non-smoking area of the restaurant.
    A lot of times we don't have the choice - When I go to my part time job the ppl working there are almost all smokers, I can't quit it coz I need the money to continue to go to school, and it's the only job that I can do at the moment.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    because you dont want to breathe smoke?
    Ok, more to the point...why should I stay out of the pub because I dont want to breathe smoke. Should the pub not offer me (the non smoker) a smoke free environment?
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    (Original post by rahaydenuk)
    Oh here we go again with the civil liberties argument. If smokers have the right to affect my health in a public place through the deliberate release of toxic chemicals for no benefit to society other than to please themselves, then surely I should have the civil liberty as you put it to go around releasing cyanide into public places if doing so made me happy? What's the difference? Surely by your logic this is an impeachment of my civil liberties?
    if your cyanide did as little to public health as smoking then maybe....

    On your second point, so now we're putting trade above human life? I don't think that even merits a response.
    the point is, a complete ban is possibly an over the top measure.
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    (Original post by Mark_KK)
    Several hundred people die every year from lung cancer caused by passive smoking. Did these people have a choice?

    As I have mentioned before this is about smoking, why are we now going on to talk about drinking?
    I agree. There's a distinct difference which people seem to conveniently fail to acknowledge. The consumption of alcohol in a public place such as a bar etc. doesn't affect the person sitting next to you (unless the alcohol incites violence or something, but that's totally irrelevant as it's covered by other laws). If you choose to drink, that's your choice, you're not in the process implicitly making a choice for someone else. Smoking is completely different for obvious reasons.
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    Statistics pulled off some seemingly quasi governmental smkoing related website:

    Smoking kills around six times more people in the UK than road (3,647) and other accidents (9,974), murder and manslaughter (448), suicide (4,175), poisoning and overdoses (1,071) and HIV infection (577) all put together .

    Several hundred people each year also die from the effects of passive smoking.
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    (Original post by rahaydenuk)
    I agree. There's a distinct difference which people seem to conveniently fail to acknowledge. The consumption of alcohol in a public place such as a bar etc. doesn't affect the person sitting next to you (unless the alcohol incites violence or something, but that's totally irrelevant as it's covered by other laws). If you choose to drink, that's your choice, you're not in the process implicitly making a choice for someone else. Smoking is completely different for obvious reasons.
    Agree
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    (Original post by Mark_KK)
    Ok, more to the point...why should I stay out of the pub because I dont want to breathe smoke. Should the pub not offer me (the non smoker) a smoke free environment?
    that is the choice of the pub. up until now, the pubs have said, we'd rather let smokers in than ban smoking. its their choice.
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    Interesting how the main person arguing the smokers "rights" is based in Paris / Antwerp where smoking is very much part of the culture .
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    (Original post by rahaydenuk)
    I agree. There's a distinct difference which people seem to conveniently fail to acknowledge. The consumption of alcohol in a public place such as a bar etc. doesn't affect the person sitting next to you (unless the alcohol incites violence or something, but that's totally irrelevant as it's covered by other laws). If you choose to drink, that's your choice, you're not in the process implicitly making a choice for someone else. Smoking is completely different for obvious reasons.
    the millions of pounds spent by the government, the burden on the NHS, whose 70% nightly intake is on drunken related incidents, will effect you.

    why sit next to someone whos smoking?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    that is the choice of the pub. up until now, the pubs have said, we'd rather let smokers in than ban smoking. its their choice.
    Right, so in one post you are arguing civil liberties and then in your next you are totally dismissing them?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    if your cyanide did as little to public health as smoking then maybe....
    Since when has passive smoking done little to public health? I don't know which newspapers you've been reading...

    Also, who gets to make this decision as to what is 'too much' damage to public health?

    (Original post by vienna95)
    the point is, a complete ban is possibly an over the top measure.
    That's your opinion, but I'm afraid I don't concur.
 
 
 
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